Which weighed more heavily on 4/26/2018: WANTING Allen or NOT Wanting Rosen?

[transplantbillsfan]

Brandon Beane actually recounts all of this in terms of the trades and attempted trades almost two weeks ago now to trade up from 12 to get a QB.  It's in an article by the Buffalo News, but is, unfortunately, behind a paywall.  But even before that article, reports were wide-ranging now that the Bills had a deal in place to trade up to #5 with the Broncos.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-the-draft-day-trade-the-bills-and-broncos-had-in-place-before-bradley-chubb-fell/

 

And we all know they eventually traded up to #7 with the Bucs (a deal that apparently nearly didn't happen after Beane made an offer and the Bucs GM passed, but then he called Beane back just as they were getting on the clock), but Peter King reports this week in his MMQB that Buffalo legitimately was trying to trade with the Colts, too.

 

http://amp.si.com/nfl/2018/05/07/peter-king-sports-illustrated-nbc-mmqb?__twitter_impression=true

• The Bills moved from 12 to seven in the first round to get Josh Allen, and they tried to move from 12 to 6. The Colts, at six, did a great job disguising their intentions, because the league thought GM Chris Ballard wanted Roquan Smith there. But the Colts’ research showed their quarterbacks being hit more than any other quarterbacks in football since 2012. So sure-fire guard starter Quenton Nelson had been locked in for a while at six, and Ballard got the last prospective early interior-line starter on their board at 37, Auburn guard Braden Smith. Interesting that in his pre-draft press conference Ballard said the offensive and defensive lines are how they’ll build this team, and in the first two rounds, he took two guards and two defensive ends. Maybe those useless press conferences are worth something after all. Anyway, when the Bills called Ballard, he didn’t have much interest, because he wanted Nelson so bad as a shield for beaten Andrew Luck.

 

 

So, Beane was, by his own account, ready to move up to #5 for sure and even had that deal in place before the draft, pending whether the Broncos guy (Chubb) was available or not.  Clearly Beane was also trying to get higher, but wasn't willing to give up any future picks, which I'm guessing is what Dorsey at #4 and Gettleman at #2 was asking for.

 

Based on some of his cryptic responses in that Buffalo News article in response to the question of where Allen was on his board, I think it's pretty clear that Darnold was #1 and Allen was #2.

 

But my question is: how much of a drop from Allen to Rosen was there?

 

Of course, this is just an educated guess, but I'd say if it went #1- Darnold and #2- Allen... do you think Rosen was even ranked #3 on the Bills board or do you think he was completely off the Bills board, whether for durability or personality concerns?

 

 

Whether Rosen was completely off Buffalo's board or not, I don't know.  But if Allen and Rosen were ranked even closely together, I don't think the mad scramble to get to #5, then #6, then #7 would have happened... and Benjamin Allbright also reported early this week that Arizona had been trying to get to #5 for Allen.

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/992792690600407040

There was no deal in place pre draft between Denver and Arizona. Arizona had called to inquire, but Denver had a deal in place with Buffalo (as we reported prior to the draft). Denver backed out of that deal to select Bradley Chubb.

Both Buffalo and AZ were after Josh Allen at 5

 

 

 

So, knowing the price we paid and would have also been willing to pay going up to #5 and the picks we could have saved if the difference between Allen and Rosen were negligible, do you think our trade up to draft Allen is more a sign of how much Buffalo likes Allen or how much Buffalo didn't like Rosen?

[Seanbillsfan2206]

In before the merge...

[Alphadawg7]

There is another thread already from GunnerBill where he has some source that said both Baker and Rosen were completely off the Bills board.  

 

Not sure I see correlation with your thread title and the actual body of your post.  But going back to the thread title, its 100% crystal clear to me Allen was their target and the guy they coveted.  I will assume Darnold was on there too, and even Gunners source said they were the top 2 guys on their board.  But there is no clarification if Darnold or Allen was the top guy.  

 

If Allen was #1 on their board, I think Beane would have said as much.  To get the guy who they ranked as the best QB in the draft at #7 I think would be part of his excitement in talking about getting him.  So the fact they haven't said that to me suggests it probably went Darnold and Allen.  No value in talking about that, and  no reason to since Darnold was never obtainable as neither Cle or NYG were interested in really moving off 1 or 2, and Bills certainly didnt value Darnold enough over Allen to pay enough to try and sway their minds.  

 

But for me, there is absolutely no doubt that Allen was their top target entering the draft and they did everything they could to make sure they could get him...which they did, and somehow did it without having to part with both first round picks allowing they to land the LB they coveted too.  

 

Beane is a wizard.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is another thread already from GunnerBill where he has some source that said both Baker and Rosen were completely off the Bills board.  

 

Not sure I see correlation with your thread title and the actual body of your post.  But going back to the thread title, its 100% crystal clear to me Allen was their target and the guy they coveted.  I will assume Darnold was on there too, and even Gunners source said they were the top 2 guys on their board.  But there is no clarification if Darnold or Allen was the top guy.  

 

If Allen was #1 on their board, I think Beane would have said as much.  To get the guy who they ranked as the best QB in the draft at #7 I think would be part of his excitement in talking about getting him.  So the fact they haven't said that to me suggests it probably went Darnold and Allen.  No value in talking about that, and  no reason to since Darnold was never obtainable as neither Cle or NYG were interested in really moving off 1 or 2, and Bills certainly didnt value Darnold enough over Allen to pay enough to try and sway their minds.  

 

But for me, there is absolutely no doubt that Allen was their top target entering the draft and they did everything they could to make sure they could get him...which they did, and somehow did it without having to part with both first round picks allowing they to land the LB they coveted too.  

 

Beane is a wizard.

 

Agreed - I think that Allen and Darnold were at the top and I think Gunner’s thread covers it pretty well.  

 

To me if if they had lost out on Allen or if Allen and Darnold had gone #1 & #3 - I think Beane’s Comments about Rudolph perhaps at 22 tells you how they thought of Rosen.  I would never rule out them taking him, but my guess is if they missed Darnold and Allen - you are looking at LB at 12 and we will see who falls to 22 for QB.  If multiple are still there it may move to the 2nd round with other players being chosen at 22.

 

I think they had a wide gap between the top 2 guys and picks 3-5 at the QB position.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

37 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

In before the merge...

 

Searched through the first 3 pages... didn't see a thread this would be merged with.  So sorry for the trouble.

[mjt328]

Based on everything we know, I don't think Josh Rosen was on our board at all - or he was significantly lower than Josh Allen.

 

I always got the impression the Bills were disappointed in the Jets/Colts trade and were targeting that spot.  They were also making attempts to trade up, even as high as #2 to make sure they got the right guy.  I just can't see them pushing so hard to make a deal with Denver if there were two guys left they were comfortable with.  After Sam Darnold was taken, it's pretty clear that Beane was starting to get desperate.  That's because he only had ONE GUY left at the top of his board.

 

The Bills front office places an extremely high premium on character.  And for some reason, lots of teams (not just a few) had problems with Rosen.  Maybe we won't know the specifics for a few years, but GMs and coaches just didn't want him on their team.

[transplantbillsfan]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is another thread already from GunnerBill where he has some source that said both Baker and Rosen were completely off the Bills board.  

 

Not sure I see correlation with your thread title and the actual body of your post.  But going back to the thread title, its 100% crystal clear to me Allen was their target and the guy they coveted.  I will assume Darnold was on there too, and even Gunners source said they were the top 2 guys on their board.  But there is no clarification if Darnold or Allen was the top guy.  

 

If Allen was #1 on their board, I think Beane would have said as much.  To get the guy who they ranked as the best QB in the draft at #7 I think would be part of his excitement in talking about getting him.  So the fact they haven't said that to me suggests it probably went Darnold and Allen.  No value in talking about that, and  no reason to since Darnold was never obtainable as neither Cle or NYG were interested in really moving off 1 or 2, and Bills certainly didnt value Darnold enough over Allen to pay enough to try and sway their minds.  

 

But for me, there is absolutely no doubt that Allen was their top target entering the draft and they did everything they could to make sure they could get him...which they did, and somehow did it without having to part with both first round picks allowing they to land the LB they coveted too.  

 

Beane is a wizard.

 

Okay I vaguely remember Gunner's post.  I was mainly thinking about this as I read Peter King's MMQB today and saw the Bills were trying to trade up with the Colts. If Rosen was legitimately off Buffalo's board, then I think the persistence of trading up while Arizona was reportedly also trying to do that for the same QB is pretty telling... I also think Arizona's changing narrative of now suddenly claiming they liked Rosen more than Allen is entertaining.
https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2018/5/8/17329316/the-arizona-cardinals-were-never-in-on-josh-allen-because-of-the-price

 

[K-9]

Far more want than not want. 

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed - I think that Allen and Darnold were at the top and I think Gunner’s thread covers it pretty well.  

 

To me if if they had lost out on Allen or if Allen and Darnold had gone #1 & #3 - I think Beane’s Comments about Rudolph perhaps at 22 tells you how they thought of Rosen.  I would never rule out them taking him, but my guess is if they missed Darnold and Allen - you are looking at LB at 12 and we will see who falls to 22 for QB.  If multiple are still there it may move to the 2nd round with other players being chosen at 22.

 

I think they had a wide gap between the top 2 guys and picks 3-5 at the QB position.

 

 

 

Yeah totally agree...I think the plan was Allen, if not Allen then they 100% draft Edmunds at 12 then Mason at 22

[mead107]

Seriously???????

been talked about many days now.  

[transplantbillsfan]

38 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed - I think that Allen and Darnold were at the top and I think Gunner’s thread covers it pretty well.  

 

To me if if they had lost out on Allen or if Allen and Darnold had gone #1 & #3 - I think Beane’s Comments about Rudolph perhaps at 22 tells you how they thought of Rosen.  I would never rule out them taking him, but my guess is if they missed Darnold and Allen - you are looking at LB at 12 and we will see who falls to 22 for QB.  If multiple are still there it may move to the 2nd round with other players being chosen at 22.

 

I think they had a wide gap between the top 2 guys and picks 3-5 at the QB position.

 

 

 

Where did Beane say something about Rudolph at 22?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

In before the merge...

 

[transplantbillsfan]

8 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Seriously???????

been talked about many days now.  

 

Welp... I'm sorry... I'm not in here all moments of the day.  Actually, I haven't had the chance to be in here talking Bills football as much as I used to for months now.

 

I followed protocol.  I literally scrolled down to the bottom and looked at the thread titles of the first 3 pages and didn't see the topic.  If it's been talked about for many days now, that thread wasn't in the first 3 pages after I read the MMQB and thought about posting it.

[BuffaloBillyG]

51 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed - I think that Allen and Darnold were at the top and I think Gunner’s thread covers it pretty well.  

 

To me if if they had lost out on Allen or if Allen and Darnold had gone #1 & #3 - I think Beane’s Comments about Rudolph perhaps at 22 tells you how they thought of Rosen.  I would never rule out them taking him, but my guess is if they missed Darnold and Allen - you are looking at LB at 12 and we will see who falls to 22 for QB.  If multiple are still there it may move to the 2nd round with other players being chosen at 22.

 

I think they had a wide gap between the top 2 guys and picks 3-5 at the QB position.

 

 

Seeing the way the draft actually played out I think its obvious we would have pounced on Edmunds at 12. Then Rudolph at 22 would have been my bet.  I don't think Rosen was even a fallback option in hindsight.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I think Allen was their guy all along.  Getting him at 7 was a huge win for Beane and boys.

[jr1]

it seemed like Terry wanted Allen 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There is another thread already from GunnerBill where he has some source that said both Baker and Rosen were completely off the Bills board.  

 

I actually think that might be true, and if it is true that they were both off the board, the reason might be concussions.

 

Everyone who follows football heard about Rosen's concussions.  Although less publicized, Baker Mayfield also had 2 concussions (last year, within the space of 3 games).

 

At one point fairly close to the draft, Beane said something to the effect that one team won't be bothered by a medical exam that takes a player off another team's board.  I thought that was a strange comment to make in the context in which it was made.  But if it was the Bills moving Mayfield and Rosen off their board for concussions it would make sense.

I can't find the comment right now.  I'll come back and link it if I find it.

 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I think Allen was their guy all along.  Getting him at 7 was a huge win for Beane and boys.

 

Well... I think they preferred Darnold, but yeah, I think Allen was #2.

 

But in a draft where 4 QBs went in the top 10 and were considered by many to be legitimate top 10 prospects, it's interesting that Beane, who was on record time and time again saying how much he valued his draft picks, still chose to give up those valuable assets to get one of them when 2 of them were still on the board and he could have given up less... or possibly none at all.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Welp... I'm sorry... I'm not in here all moments of the day.  Actually, I haven't had the chance to be in here talking Bills football as much as I used to for months now.

 

I followed protocol.  I literally scrolled down to the bottom and looked at the thread titles of the first 3 pages and didn't see the topic.  If it's been talked about for many days now, that thread wasn't in the first 3 pages after I read the MMQB and thought about posting it.

 

You're good.  It could easily be added to the Draft Pick #7 Thread but when a thread reaches 80+ pages, even Search Ninjas have trouble navigating it.

 

[White Linen]

It was mostly about not wanting Rosen.  They just didn't want Allen a little less. 

 

C'mon now.

Edited May 9, 2018 by White Linen