Regardless of what happens tomorrow

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, Bill_with_it said:

You have a very hard time reading:

And über yikes:

“We're excited to see [Manuel] grow, and we're excited to see him compete with Kevin Kolb," Whaley said. "May the best man win.”

http://www.espn.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9514038/buffalo-bills-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-split-practice-snaps-qb

 Whaleys words not mine. Unedited. His intentions were clearly not to sit the rookie. Nore was it the HC’s intentions either. It was a competition.

 

Not once did Whaley come out and say Manuel was the day one starter. No reading problems here...

[Bill_with_it]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Did I say franchise QB?  He’s improved immensely.  He isn’t what everyone thought he was after 4 years.  He’s better.

Why else would you be advocating his worthiness of starting on a team? Cmon you cant be realistic hoping that keeping EJ would have somehow morphed into a one season Case Keenum wonder carried by that stout Vikings defense. Ej was bad, is bad, and warranted clipboard duty by game 4 of the second season. There is nothing that could have made him a franchise qb. He had the same mento as Carr, went to every kind of qb camp you can imagine, and worked tremendously hard to get better; he just wasnt and isnt good enough. No matter had he sit for 15 years....

7 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

Not once did Whaley come out and say Manuel was the day one starter. No reading problems here...

Never said he said that. I stated emphatically that Whaley said it was a competition; not as the rewriters of history proclaiming that he was supposed to sit his first year. You do have problems reading. Dont say I posted something I didnt; thats lacking integrity. Im done here. I posted where Whaley said it was a competition; unlike the ones who said it wasnt. Once more Ill leave Whaleys words right here in case another rewriter of history drops by:

"We're excited to see [Manuel] grow, and we're excited to see him compete with Kevin Kolb," Whaley said. "May the best man win.”

http://www.espn.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9514038/buffalo-bills-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-split-practice-snaps-qb

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Why else would you be advocating his worthiness of starting on a team? Cmon you cant be realistic hoping that keeping EJ would have somehow morphed into a one season Case Keenum wonder carried by that stout Vikings defense. Ej was bad, is bad, and warranted clipboard duty by game 4 of the second season. There is nothing that could have made him a franchise qb. He had the same mento as Carr, went to every kind of qb camp you can imagine, and worked tremendously hard to get better; he just wasnt and isnt good enough. No matter had he sit for 15 years....

Never said he said that. I stated emphatically that Whaley said it was a competition; not as the rewriters of history proclaiming that he was supposed to sit his first year. You do have problems reading. Dont say I posted something I didnt; thats lacking integrity. Im done here. I posted where Whaley said it was a competition; unlike the ones who said it wasnt. Once more Ill leave Whaleys words right here in case another rewriter of history drops by:

"We're excited to see [Manuel] grow, and we're excited to see him compete with Kevin Kolb," Whaley said. "May the best man win.”

http://www.espn.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9514038/buffalo-bills-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-split-practice-snaps-qb

You’re implying that it doesn’t matter how a QB is developed.  Either they are good or they are bad.  I’m not saying that EJ would’ve been good if handled differently.  I’m saying that how teams decide to develop a qb CAN be the difference in how a qb progresses. Not all QBs, but some.  If we draft allen do with him what we did with EJ, it COULD ruin his career.  

[Bill_with_it]

39 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’re implying that it doesn’t matter how a QB is developed.  Either they are good or they are bad.  I’m not saying that EJ would’ve been good if handled differently.  I’m saying that how teams decide to develop a qb CAN be the difference in how a qb progresses. Not all QBs, but some.  If we draft allen do with him what we did with EJ, it COULD ruin his career.  

Im not implying anything. Im saying if a Qb foesnt display any starting qb performances consistently by year 3 of his tenure, its likely highly likely we need to try an alternative. The likelyhood of turning it around and being a franchise qb after that is very very minimal. 

[dorquemada]

12 hours ago, Bfanlc said:

Lets move up to 2 and get a punter. Do we need a punter?? I'd laugh my butt off....seriously

 

or keep trading down until we have all the picks in teh 6th and 7th round.  I mean all 64 of them, and draft every punter in D1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Did he warrant more?

 

Probably not.  Though at the time I would have liked to see him get a 2nd season.  Just ride-or-die with him and see for sure if he can work through his stuff.

 

14 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Is there some conspiracy to disrupt his advancement?

 

Possibly.  See it's like this.  The interests of the coach, and the long-term interests of the team, don't always align. 

It's in the teams long-term interest to develop a QB, even if it takes a few years.  The coach these days figures he has 3 years max to start winning or he's toast.

 

So if the team drafts a QB who ideally should sit 2 years, and they don't have a capable incumbent starter, the coach has strong motivation to finger the QB as "no good" and push for an upgrade.

 

14 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Did the Bills not due everything in their power to get him to succeed?

 

No.  No, actually, they did a lot of things that were counterproductive such as not have an available vet QB or an experienced QB coach , but need we re-hash?

 

14 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Sometimes it is best to cut your losses and move on. I think we waited too long to cut bait with EJ.

 

And what will we say about our hoped-for new guy?

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

And regardless of what QB we take ... let us all be patient with the rookie and not run him out of town after 1-2 years 

 

I was talking with my father earlier and he is a die hard fan like us all. Like some posters here, he has been with the Bills since day 1, 1960 and been with the team through all the ups and downs

 

The one thing he and I fear is that we will not be patient with our rookie QB and run him out of town. We have been stung time and time again and we are rabid as a fan base and want    Instant results . 

 

It is not a 1 year process with a rookie QB. There will be good plays and bad but we must be patient and support him unconditionally 

 

BILLIEVE 2018

The fans don't run a qb out of town. The coaches do. They see the young player on the practice field and in the class room. Even if a qb is raw and needs plenty of time to be ready before allowed to take the snaps they can early on get a sense if the player has what it takes. EJ was a first round pick. But it didn't take Marrone too long to determine that EJ not only didn't have it then but more importantly would never have it. With the exception of bad behavior the fans have little influence with the decisions that the staff makes regarding players. 

[Lfod]

Each of these QBs look into the mirror with a twinkle in the eye and hope in the heart. It feels good to be wanted. It feels good to be important in the eyes of others. 

 

Enjoy it while it last. The odds are against you. This isn't college ball anymore kids, you made it to the big show and chances are you will flame out. I hope you didn't let the hype go completely to your head because once the bullets fly that hype will no longer matter. A few bad games and all the love you got before the draft dissapears completely and you are stepts closer to being replaced. 

 

Not for long boys. Remember that as you walk up in stage and take your jersey. 

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The fans don't run a qb out of town. The coaches do. They see the young player on the practice field and in the class room. Even if a qb is raw and needs plenty of time to be ready before allowed to take the snaps they can early on get a sense if the player has what it takes. EJ was a first round pick. But it didn't take Marrone too long to determine that EJ not only didn't have it then but more importantly would never have it. With the exception of bad behavior the fans have little influence with the decisions that the staff makes regarding players. 

 

Fans turn on players very quick especially in Buffalo. We will boo you out of the stadium after a bad half 

 

my last line was as fans to unconditionally support our new QB

[Lfod]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Fans turn on players very quick especially in Buffalo. We will boo you out of the stadium after a bad half 

 

my last line was as fans to unconditionally support our new QB

It's the NFL and the reason it's special is because not just anyone can walk into it and play the game at a respectable level.

 

It's the closest thing I have to mondern day gladiators. Win the crowd Maximus and you win your freedom. 

 

It's called the not for long league for a reason and if it was all good feels and Easy Street I wouldn't respect it as much. It's the risk they take and what they should live for. Best of luck to the rooks but some of them will fail. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Lfod

[Buffalo716]

Just now, Lfod said:

It's the NFL and the reason it's special is because not just anyone can walk into it and play the game at a respectable level.

 

It's the closest thing I have to mondern day gladiators. Win the crowd Maximus and you win your freedom. 

 

It's called the not for long league for a reason and if it was all good feels and Easy Street I wouldn't respect it as much.

 

Obviously. I grew up on the field and in a press box. I fully understand why it’s such a beautiful game

 

Patience is a virtue. Especially with QBs

[Lfod]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Obviously. I grew up on the field and in a press box. I fully understand why it’s such a beautiful game

 

Patience is a virtue. Especially with QBs

Sorry I'm just super pumped. I get what your saying.

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Fans turn on players very quick especially in Buffalo. We will boo you out of the stadium after a bad half 

 

my last line was as fans to unconditionally support our new QB

Buffalo is no different from most places. It doesn't take long for a boo to turn into a cheer and a cheer to turn into a boo. That's the nature of the business. 

[Fan in Chicago]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I fear I will be the same Yolo. It will feel very like the Rex hire to me.  I said day 1 "I really do not like this I think it is going to be bad" and I then tried to push it to the back of my mind and get on board but my patience level was always pretty low and by halfway through his first year I wanted him fired.  I am going to try really, really hard to avoid jumping to any premature conclusions if it is Josh Allen and give him the chance to develop that he needs.... but I can tell you my optimism that we have the guy will not be high. 

Have not looked through your other posts. What is your QB ranking ? Rosen , Darnold, Mayfield ?

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Lfod said:

Sorry I'm just super pumped. I get what your saying.

 

I haven’t been this anxious for a draft in a long long time

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Buffalo is no different from most places. It doesn't take long for a boo to turn into a cheer and a cheer to turn into a boo. That's the nature of the business. 

 

100% agree. Let’s just not boo him out of the Ralph in his home opener when he throws 2 picks by half

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Buffalo716

[Bill_with_it]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Probably not.  Though at the time I would have liked to see him get a 2nd season.  Just ride-or-die with him and see for sure if he can work through his stuff.

 

 

Possibly.  See it's like this.  The interests of the coach, and the long-term interests of the team, don't always align. 

It's in the teams long-term interest to develop a QB, even if it takes a few years.  The coach these days figures he has 3 years max to start winning or he's toast.

 

So if the team drafts a QB who ideally should sit 2 years, and they don't have a capable incumbent starter, the coach has strong motivation to finger the QB as "no good" and push for an upgrade.

 

 

No.  No, actually, they did a lot of things that were counterproductive such as not have an available vet QB or an experienced QB coach , but need we re-hash?

 

 

And what will we say about our hoped-for new guy?

He got a second season. And more seasons to follow. Whaley done everything in his power; making a qb competition every camp. Did you forget.

 

It wasnt just the coaches; it was the gm and the coaches. The entirety of the team.

 

you should always push to get a qb; without you have the Bills for the oast two decades. Pretty hard to argue with that.

 

New guy (dependent upon where hes drafted); needs to show progress and improve to warrant the notion of becoming a franchise qb. Otherwise signing a clipboard holder is cheaper....

[Foxx]

27 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

He got a second season. And more seasons to follow. Whaley done everything in his power; making a qb competition every camp. Did you forget.

 

It wasnt just the coaches; it was the gm and the coaches. The entirety of the team.

 

you should always push to get a qb; without you have the Bills for the oast two decades. Pretty hard to argue with that.

 

New guy (dependent upon where hes drafted); needs to show progress and improve to warrant the notion of becoming a franchise qb. Otherwise signing a clipboard holder is cheaper....

i was/am a big supporter of Whaley. that being said...

 

i don't know if you can call having EJ Manuel, Thad Lewis, Jeff Tuel, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassel, Kevin Kolb as having a QB competition. it was probably more a case of, winner by omission.

[stuvian]

this thread is turning into a confessional  as though we are collectively guilty for EJ's failures. I want one of Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, or Darnold. Anything less is a cop out

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

20 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Never said he said that. I stated emphatically that Whaley said it was a competition; not as the rewriters of history proclaiming that he was supposed to sit his first year. You do have problems reading. Dont say I posted something I didnt; thats lacking integrity. Im done here. I posted where Whaley said it was a competition; unlike the ones who said it wasnt. Once more Ill leave Whaleys words right here in case another rewriter of history drops by:

"We're excited to see [Manuel] grow, and we're excited to see him compete with Kevin Kolb," Whaley said. "May the best man win.”

http://www.espn.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9514038/buffalo-bills-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-split-practice-snaps-qb

Clearly you're the one with the reading/comprehension issues...Lack of integrity huh? :/

 

I never said that you said that. You interpreted what I said wrong, and there wasn't any ambiguity to what I said. 

 

I wasn't arguing against the idea that it was a competition. I was simply stating that your claim that "everyone knew Manuel would start" was not the case, and contradicts the "competition" that Whaley spoke about. Knowing something, and assuming or expecting something, is not the same. And personally, I didn't believe EJ was going to start week one. I thought the best thing would be to sit him, and start Kolb. That doesn't mean that was the Bills' plan all along, just my opinion on the situation. 

[Bill_with_it]

7 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

Clearly you're the one with the reading/comprehension issues...Lack of integrity huh? :/

 

I never said that you said that. You interpreted what I said wrong, and there wasn't any ambiguity to what I said. 

 

I wasn't arguing against the idea that it was a competition. I was simply stating that your claim that "everyone knew Manuel would start" was not the case, and contradicts the "competition" that Whaley spoke about. Knowing something, and assuming or expecting something, is not the same. And personally, I didn't believe EJ was going to start week one. I thought the best thing would be to sit him, and start Kolb. That doesn't mean that was the Bills' plan all along, just my opinion on the situation. 

I never said everone said Manuel would start, you have issues reading and writing. My point was and still is and founded by fact that it was a qb competition; unlike the rewriting of history guys who state that he was suppose to sit for years. So you do have issues reading and writing. Thats why my urls are attached, qotes bolded, and you keep reading the same thing misinterpreting the hell out of it.