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Football Perspective: The Trouble With Finding Comparisons For Josh Allen

HappyDays

By HappyDays
in The Stadium Wall Archives

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HappyDays Hall of Famer

HappyDays

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http://www.footballperspective.com/the-trouble-with-finding-comparisons-for-josh-allen/

 

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Allen has a significant amount of bust potential but traditional quarterback size and one of the greatest arms you’ll ever see. That has naturally led to some comparisons to two of the biggest draft busts in recent memory: Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell.

But a comparison to Leaf, Russell, and don’t make much sense. That’s because those guys were stars in college.
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But Allen?  He wasn’t good, even in the Mountain West Conference.  And he didn’t even throw very often.  Allen ranked 7th in Adjusted Yards per Attempt in the Mountain West last year, and ranked 10th11th out of 12 teams in yards per play in yards per attempt among 11  qualifying passers.  He also quarterbacked the single worst offense in the conference! Wyoming ranked dead last in total yards.  Allen wasn’t playing for a good offense, or a pass-heavy offense: he was leading a very bad offense in a mediocre conference and he produced mediocre (at best) passing numbers:

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It’s not remarkable that someone with incredible physical tools — size, arm strength, and also raw athleticism — like Allen could be a number one pick.  But what is unusual is that someone with that skill set was so thoroughly underwhelming in college despite (1) facing a lower level of competition, (2) having a great defense and (3) not being asked to throw a ton.

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If you’re coming from a small school, you typically need remarkable stats andthe physical tools to be a high pick.  Allen only has half the equation.  Yes, Carson Wentz went to a small school, but Wentz put up great numbers (8.4 Y/A, 8.8 AY/A, 45 TDs/14 INTs in 612 career passes) while playing for a team that won the championship every season he was there. That is not exactly the Allen story.

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HappyDays Hall of Famer

HappyDays

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I've seen people say Josh Allen took a bad Wyoming team and led them to wins, but this article seems to debunk that. Wyoming had the most takeaways per game in the Mountain West and had the best points allowed per game too. The article says they finished 8-5 in spite of the offense.

Edited by HappyDays
Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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I heard Greg Cosell describe it well yesterday. He says he’s a great example of the difference between “arm strength’ and “arm talent”.

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DCOrange Veteran

DCOrange

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  On 4/13/2018 at 7:27 PM, HappyDays said:

I've seen people say Josh Allen took a bad Wyoming team and led them to wins, but this article seems to debunk that. Wyoming had the most takeaways per game in the Mountain West and had the best points allowed per game too. The article says they finished 8-5 in spite of the offense.

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The prior year they were one of the highest scoring teams in the country while having a defense that couldn't stop anyone. It flip-flopped this season.

Jay_Fixit Veteran

Jay_Fixit

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  On 4/13/2018 at 7:29 PM, Augie said:

I heard Greg Cosell describe it well yesterday. He says he’s a great example of the difference between “arm strength’ and “arm talent”.

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Which makes no sense because “arm talent” isn’t a thing.

 

Allen has a strong arm. Neat.

 

However, he’s about as accurate as the Klobb from Goldeneye on N64.

Edited by Jay_Fixit
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Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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  On 4/13/2018 at 7:33 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

Which makes no sense because “arm talent” isn’t a thing.

 

Allen has a strong arm. Neat.

 

However, he’s about as accurate as the Klobb from Goldeneye on N64.

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Interesting, because I think I knew instantly what he meant. You mention accuracy. How about touch? Being able to throw a catchable ball to all part of the field, hitting the receiver in stride, without getting him killed ala EJ? How about dropping that deep ball in over the WR’s shoulder. If you don’t get the contrast there, I can’t help you. I think it’s a very good point. 

 

Josh Allen can throw the ball a looooong way. You need more than that. 

Edited by Augie
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Dadonkadonk RFA

Dadonkadonk

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Let's hope the GNM's feel the same way and he falls to #12.  He will be the best of the entire class.  The same guys ripping Allen are the same morons that had Russell and Leaf rated high.  They don't know anything.  Its a crap shoot and if they can get Allen without giving up picks that would be sweet.  I just don't see him dropping past Elway.

JohnC All Pro

JohnC

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  On 4/13/2018 at 7:32 PM, dave mcbride said:

Awesome find.

 

Josh. Allen. Is. Not. Going. Number. One. Or. Number. Two. Overall. Period.

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That's not what HappyDays's fears the most. He is afraid that he is going to be drafted at the 12 spot with the Bills not trading down. That's what makes him crazy with worry! 

Jay_Fixit Veteran

Jay_Fixit

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Posted (edited)
  On 4/13/2018 at 7:46 PM, Augie said:

 

Interesting, because I think I knew instantly what he meant. You mention accuracy. How about touch? Being able to throw a catchable ball to all part of the field, hitting the receiver in stride, without getting him killed ala EJ? How about dropping that deep ball in over the WR’s shoulder. If you don’t get the contrast there, I can’t help you. I think it’s a very good point. 

 

Josh Allen can throw the ball a looooong way. You need more than that. 

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That’s not arm talent. That’s regular talent.

 

Arm talent is a made up term by Trent Dilfer so people like you don’t have to come up with a bunch of categories for a QB’s throwing abilities. Here’s some mind blowing news....a lot of that has more to do with mechanics than it does arm...

 

Sheep? Yep.

Edited by Jay_Fixit
Augie Hall of Famer

Augie

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  On 4/13/2018 at 10:18 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

That’s not arm talent. That’s regular talent.

 

Arm talent is a made up term by Trent Dilfer so people like you don’t have to come up with a bunch of categories for a QB’s throwing abilities. Here’s some mind blowing news....a lot of that has more to do with mechanics than it does arm...

 

Sheep? Yep.

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People like me? Sheep? It’s a widely used term by all kinds of people. Get over yourself. It may be somewhat general, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Oh, and that’s not “regular talent”. Is that your term?  Can you be more specific? Is that solid footwork? Ability to read defenses pre-snap? Post snap? Ability to go through reads?  Arm talent is frequently used to describe one aspect of a QB’s job. Is this some kind of pet peeve for you? People use the term, I don’t think it’s up to you to decide whether it’s for real or not. 

Bobby Hooks Veteran

Bobby Hooks

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Posted
  On 4/13/2018 at 10:27 PM, Augie said:

 

People like me? Sheep? It’s a widely used term by all kinds of people. Get over yourself. It may be somewhat general, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Oh, and that’s not “regular talent”. Is that your term?  Can you be more specific? Is that solid footwork? Ability to read defenses pre-snap? Post snap? Ability to go through reads?  Arm talent is frequently used to describe one aspect of a QB’s job. Is this some kind of pet peeve for you? People use the term, I don’t think it’s up to you to decide whether it’s for real or not. 

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Sheep is a widely used term by all kinds of people. I don’t think it’s up to you whether it’s for real or not. 

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