HappyDays Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 http://www.footballperspective.com/the-trouble-with-finding-comparisons-for-josh-allen/ Allen has a significant amount of bust potential but traditional quarterback size and one of the greatest arms you’ll ever see. That has naturally led to some comparisons to two of the biggest draft busts in recent memory: Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell. But a comparison to Leaf, Russell, and don’t make much sense. That’s because those guys were stars in college. But Allen? He wasn’t good, even in the Mountain West Conference. And he didn’t even throw very often. Allen ranked 7th in Adjusted Yards per Attempt in the Mountain West last year, and ranked 10th11th out of 12 teams in yards per play in yards per attempt among 11 qualifying passers. He also quarterbacked the single worst offense in the conference! Wyoming ranked dead last in total yards. Allen wasn’t playing for a good offense, or a pass-heavy offense: he was leading a very bad offense in a mediocre conference and he produced mediocre (at best) passing numbers: It’s not remarkable that someone with incredible physical tools — size, arm strength, and also raw athleticism — like Allen could be a number one pick. But what is unusual is that someone with that skill set was so thoroughly underwhelming in college despite (1) facing a lower level of competition, (2) having a great defense and (3) not being asked to throw a ton. If you’re coming from a small school, you typically need remarkable stats andthe physical tools to be a high pick. Allen only has half the equation. Yes, Carson Wentz went to a small school, but Wentz put up great numbers (8.4 Y/A, 8.8 AY/A, 45 TDs/14 INTs in 612 career passes) while playing for a team that won the championship every season he was there. That is not exactly the Allen story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Blaine Gabbert 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) I've seen people say Josh Allen took a bad Wyoming team and led them to wins, but this article seems to debunk that. Wyoming had the most takeaways per game in the Mountain West and had the best points allowed per game too. The article says they finished 8-5 in spite of the offense. Edited April 13, 2018 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Logan Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I heard Greg Cosell describe it well yesterday. He says he’s a great example of the difference between “arm strength’ and “arm talent”. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I've seen people say Josh Allen took a bad Wyoming team and led them to wins, but this article seems to debunk that. Wyoming had the most takeaways per game in the Mountain West and had the best points allowed per game too. The article says they finished 8-5 in spite of the offense. The prior year they were one of the highest scoring teams in the country while having a defense that couldn't stop anyone. It flip-flopped this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, HappyDays said: http://www.footballperspective.com/the-trouble-with-finding-comparisons-for-josh-allen/ Awesome find. Josh. Allen. Is. Not. Going. Number. One. Or. Number. Two. Overall. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Augie said: I heard Greg Cosell describe it well yesterday. He says he’s a great example of the difference between “arm strength’ and “arm talent”. Which makes no sense because “arm talent” isn’t a thing. Allen has a strong arm. Neat. However, he’s about as accurate as the Klobb from Goldeneye on N64. Edited April 13, 2018 by Jay_Fixit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said: Which makes no sense because “arm talent” isn’t a thing. If you wish hard enough it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said: If you wish hard enough it is. Does this work if I wish for quads like Martin St. Louis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 He is the Heyward-Bay of the QB position 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Which makes no sense because “arm talent” isn’t a thing. Allen has a strong arm. Neat. However, he’s about as accurate as the Klobb from Goldeneye on N64. Interesting, because I think I knew instantly what he meant. You mention accuracy. How about touch? Being able to throw a catchable ball to all part of the field, hitting the receiver in stride, without getting him killed ala EJ? How about dropping that deep ball in over the WR’s shoulder. If you don’t get the contrast there, I can’t help you. I think it’s a very good point. Josh Allen can throw the ball a looooong way. You need more than that. Edited April 13, 2018 by Augie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Does this work if I wish for quads like Martin St. Louis? Those things were freakish. Sure you want to use up one of your wishes on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Let's hope the GNM's feel the same way and he falls to #12. He will be the best of the entire class. The same guys ripping Allen are the same morons that had Russell and Leaf rated high. They don't know anything. Its a crap shoot and if they can get Allen without giving up picks that would be sweet. I just don't see him dropping past Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Cardale Jones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, CNY315 said: Cardale Jones That is a pretty good comparison to me. You NEVER get perfect, but not bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, dave mcbride said: Awesome find. Josh. Allen. Is. Not. Going. Number. One. Or. Number. Two. Overall. Period. That's not what HappyDays's fears the most. He is afraid that he is going to be drafted at the 12 spot with the Bills not trading down. That's what makes him crazy with worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Augie said: Interesting, because I think I knew instantly what he meant. You mention accuracy. How about touch? Being able to throw a catchable ball to all part of the field, hitting the receiver in stride, without getting him killed ala EJ? How about dropping that deep ball in over the WR’s shoulder. If you don’t get the contrast there, I can’t help you. I think it’s a very good point. Josh Allen can throw the ball a looooong way. You need more than that. That’s not arm talent. That’s regular talent. Arm talent is a made up term by Trent Dilfer so people like you don’t have to come up with a bunch of categories for a QB’s throwing abilities. Here’s some mind blowing news....a lot of that has more to do with mechanics than it does arm... Sheep? Yep. Edited April 13, 2018 by Jay_Fixit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jay_Fixit said: That’s not arm talent. That’s regular talent. Arm talent is a made up term by Trent Dilfer so people like you don’t have to come up with a bunch of categories for a QB’s throwing abilities. Here’s some mind blowing news....a lot of that has more to do with mechanics than it does arm... Sheep? Yep. People like me? Sheep? It’s a widely used term by all kinds of people. Get over yourself. It may be somewhat general, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Oh, and that’s not “regular talent”. Is that your term? Can you be more specific? Is that solid footwork? Ability to read defenses pre-snap? Post snap? Ability to go through reads? Arm talent is frequently used to describe one aspect of a QB’s job. Is this some kind of pet peeve for you? People use the term, I don’t think it’s up to you to decide whether it’s for real or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Hooks Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Augie said: People like me? Sheep? It’s a widely used term by all kinds of people. Get over yourself. It may be somewhat general, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Oh, and that’s not “regular talent”. Is that your term? Can you be more specific? Is that solid footwork? Ability to read defenses pre-snap? Post snap? Ability to go through reads? Arm talent is frequently used to describe one aspect of a QB’s job. Is this some kind of pet peeve for you? People use the term, I don’t think it’s up to you to decide whether it’s for real or not. Sheep is a widely used term by all kinds of people. I don’t think it’s up to you whether it’s for real or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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