Why would Jackson take the Wonderlic test and not - -

[Buffalo Barbarian]

To prove that he is smart.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I can address that for you a bit if you like.

 

College professors and the like make tests like the Wonderlic.  The object being to show how smart you are. Right?

 

What do you suppose the odds are that the professors would end up with a test that shows them to be morons?

 

 It is zero. There is no chance of that happening at all. 

 

So the tests will automatically wind up being measures of things that bookish introverts know. Everybody who has some life experience knows there are different ways of being smart. We even have the word "book smart" for somebody who knows a lot of facts, but maybe seems incapable in other more practical life skills.

 

Have you taken the Wonderlic?  Or looked at it?

 

I don't agree that it measures things that bookish introverts know.  It does go there - bunch of vocabulary questions that can be debated - do you agree "sever" and "adjoin" are contradictory? or that "aghast" and "unsurprised" are contradictory?  (I don't, and the most common dictionary meanings support me).  Also some questions that require the ability to mentally manipulate 2D into 3D geometric shapes.

 

It also has a lot of questions that can be solved with basic arithmetic and algebra, and some logic questions - stuff a lot of people in a lot of fields use regularly, without being particularly bookish or particularly introverted, let alone both.  The catch is short time and no calculator, which many find tough in this electronic age where a lot of folks need a freakin' calculator to figure a 20% tip.

 

I personally think it's debatable whether the ability to do mental arithmetic and solve algebra problems quickly bear much impact on a QB's ability to master a playbook and to properly read and react to a D on the field.  There may be some correlation - if someone has gotten enough tutoring and applied themselves well enough to score reasonably on the Wonderlic, maybe that means they'll apply themselves and be able to master the playbook quickly.  Or maybe they are just super-dedicated to becoming a high draft pick.

 

23 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Then we'd know how they perform under pressure down four with two minutes left in the 4th quarter.  

 

No, you'd know they understand a certain type of math problem that ignores practical aspects of life.  If you have 6 pairs of pants, 5 shirts and 4 ties, unless you're an aficionado of 100% black, blue, white, and grey, your 120 theoretical outfits are likely to be limited by what garmets actually combine well.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BadLandsMeanie]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Have you taken the Wonderlic?  Or looked at it?

 

I don't agree that it measures things that bookish introverts know.  It does go there - bunch of vocabulary questions that can be debated - do you agree "sever" and "adjoin" are contradictory? or that "aghast" and "unsurprised" are contradictory?  (I don't, and the most common dictionary meanings support me).  Also some questions that require the ability to mentally manipulate 2D into 3D geometric shapes.

 

It also has a lot of questions that can be solved with basic arithmetic and algebra, and some logic questions - stuff a lot of people in a lot of fields use regularly, without being particularly bookish or particularly introverted, let alone both.  The catch is short time and no calculator, which many find tough in this electronic age where a lot of folks need a freakin' calculator to figure a 20% tip.

 

I personally think it's debatable whether the ability to do mental arithmetic and solve algebra problems quickly bear much impact on a QB's ability to master a playbook and to properly read and react to a D on the field.  There may be some correlation - if someone has gotten enough tutoring and applied themselves well enough to score reasonably on the Wonderlic, maybe that means they'll apply themselves and be able to master the playbook quickly.  Or maybe they are just super-dedicated to becoming a high draft pick.

 

 

No, you'd know they understand a certain type of math problem that ignores practical aspects of life.  If you have 6 pairs of pants, 5 shirts and 4 ties, unless you're an aficionado of 100% black, blue, white, and grey, your 120 theoretical outfits are likely to be limited by what garmets actually combine well.

I glanced at it. The thing is that I know A LOT about intelligence tests. Most are very fallible. The Wonderlic more so.

I am not some big expert on it but I can tell you NOBODY can refute me about my criticisms of this test and intelligence tests in general because I know the facts. The facts are what I base my opinion on.

 

But they are way too complicated to relate here so I was trying to sum up in a quick quip of truth.

 

But maybe I should just be quiet. I guess I will because ain't nobody going to believe me and I seem to have trouble getting my point across.

 

So I will say the one basic idea I was trying to express one more time and then I will stop. 

 

Let's say I design an intelligence test. I get it all ready to go and test everybody here, and the results turn out that I am the stupidest person on the board.

 

Now some or all of you posters might agree and you might highly esteem a test that shows me so accurately.

 

But for me, I am going to know that means something is wrong with it. I am going to change it and refine it until it becomes a test that measures people like me as being pretty smart. That is just human nature. 

 

Anyway, year after year I have to look at those results being bandied around as factual measures. When I know that even much more highly developed tests taking hours are fallible. But this 12 minute test that has nearly no chance of being a quality measure gets talked about like it is a scientifically accurate device. And I know that a high or low result will follow a player forever. It gets annoying for me.

 

But I can't stop it so I will just shut up

Edited March 30, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[Inigo Montoya]

54 minutes ago, umang_a_desai said:

You don’t really need an agent as someone entering the NFL for employment. The contracts are guaranteed more or less. The only way it would potentially hurt him in his first contract is in terms of sponsorships, but he can pick up an agent at any time. I personally like the kid a lot and think he is better than tyrod bc he is still looking downfield when he escapes unlike Taylor and he throws some pretty passes on the run. Up the middle too which some complain tyrod didn’t do but I tend to disagree. But he has the height to see those seams forming and has a quick release. I would be all in on taking him at 22 and letting AJ start and loading up our team w top 100 picks. I just realized I didn’t even address the op. Wonderlic means nothing. It does not measure football IQ in any shape or form. Football IQ is instinct not problem solving... my two cents fwiw.

 

I saw a report on NFL Network tonight citing sources saying that several teams are really frustrated that Jackson doesn't have an agent because they are having a difficult time getting in touch with the Jackson "camp" to set up interviews and visits.  They say it is really impeding their ability to evaluate him before the draft. For a player with some legitimate issues that teams would like to assess, this might really end up costing him some coin. 

 

If a team has similar grades on Rudolph and Jackson, and they have been able to get Rudolph into the building and spend a lot of time with him and see what he's like but have not had a chance to sit down with Jackson, I would guess they would feel more comfortable drafting Rudolph all other things being equal.

 

Agents do more than just negotiate the contract, they facilitate the entire drafting process. Any money he saves in not having an agent would likely be eaten up by falling a few spots in the draft.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[LeGOATski]

Lamar Jackson Is Trying to Game the Draft Process, But Is He Winning?

 

SI article where they talk about Jackson's decisions, but I found the following quote interesting as it relates to Buffalo:

 

"So once you get to 13 or so I think you could see a team say 'Look, this is the most athletic and dynamic quarterback this draft or last draft or maybe next draft. Let's make this work."

 

This guy Jonathan Jones seems to think Buffalo has a good chance at the top 4 QBs by just staying at 12. That gets me excited.

 

Who's Jonathan Jones, you say?

 

Who cares.

 

Buffalo should get a great QB prospect next month.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said:

Because John from Riverside, skycap, NewEra, Alphadawg and Pete told him he didn't need to - his game film "speaks for itself."

Meanwhile.....as per the usual you offer absolutely nothing of substance....not even a personal opinion.....which basically makes anything you actually post worth....well.....less then nothing.

 

 

2 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Pass on Jackson

The bills are not "passing on Jackson"

 

If Jackson ends up being the QB it will be because they tried to trade up to the top 3 and could not make it happen.....in which case they NEED to get talent at QB out of this draft.

 

Say what you want about the fact that this QB is too athletic and had fundamental issues to work on........he is the best of the next tier of QBs of this draft.....and the one most likely to be there when they pick at their original picks.

 

He is option B.  If they "pass" on him and not get into the money picks of the draft...the next group you are looking at is Mike White

[Ol Dirty B]

2 hours ago, smuvtalker said:

Wowwww, his mother is his agent??  Uhhh, perhaps she went to school and majored in Sports Management or something?  or, really knows her stuff inside and OKAY OKAY LET ME JUST STOP THERE....WTH?  That's certainly a head scratcher in MY opinion!  Lucky for Lamar, that's all it is, is my opinion.  Not that i don't think she could learn the job well, and perhaps even be a good one, but couldn't he have gotten her a better job somewhere??  Like VP of Customer Experience, or Quality Control Executive?   Nice, corner office with a big nice desk, super sweet big and comfy chair....kinda doesn't really answer to anyone, but also doesn't really help anyone either...like Butch McCrae's mom on Blue Chips..

 

It's because rookie contracts are pretty much locked in no matter what. He's not negotiating a lot of things, so he'd rather save the money. It's actually pretty smart in my opinion.

2 hours ago, jr1 said:

this is why you hire an agent 

 

I'm not sure what people like you are expecting the agent to do for him in this situation...

 

People do absolutely awful on the Wonderlic with an agent all the time. It's just a way for you all to hate on a guy trying to take an alternative route. He has no need for an agent. 

[Punt75]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

 

Well you can ready every word I said. Plainly I did not say or assume that.

 

Also when I said professors, I wasn't picturing a sex or a color, just a job.

 

Sometimes though with something I have thought about a lot, I forget to include conclusions because they seem a part of it to me. 

 

What I should have included was to say that being smart is not the same thing as if somebody would make a good professor. 

The measure is invalid in that way.

 

And I know with the constant focus on it in media etc it seems like I am the different one. But legit, my mind didn't even register between black and white on that list. I just don't think that way. Not because I am on some moral higher plain. But when you know so many people of so many different ethnicities as I happen to know, your mind doesn't sort them along those lines because really it is of no use. It doesn't tell me anything.

 

It is hard to explain unless you are in the circumstance but I actually have to focus and think about who I know is is what on that dimension. But I think it is the usal thing for people who know a lot of different ethnicities. Like my one friend said to me one time "You don't even see it".(race)

 

 

That's the weirdest thing anyone has said to me in a long time. Stay away from me.

 

"but I can tell you NOBODY can refute me about my criticisms of this test "   

I think people are feeling a bit weird about you !!

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Punt75 said:

- - - run the 40 yard dash at the NFL combine or at his recent Pro Day??? 

 

ALL the combine events are optional.  Why take a test that has been proven to be very culturally & racially biased based on an individuals education and life experiences at a young age?  All NFL executives know this but get a bit nervous picking a team leader (QB) with a low score.

 

 

I'm sure it is SO biased. That's the claim of everyone who get's a low score, I bet.

[Lfod]

The Wonderlic is more controversial than I thought around here. I can't comment because I actually have no idea what's in the test. Is it football questions or rocket science questions? If it's all football related then the score might matter to me. If it's not then I don't really care what the score is....

 

If the test isn't important why give it? Really not a place I can give an opinion. Educate me please.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Lfod

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

 

I'm sure it is SO biased. That's the claim of everyone who get's a low score, I bet.

Honestly Im not happy about the score either.....and frankly it does match on the field performance

 

What is lost in the conversation is LJ probably runs the most pro ready style college offense of the group that is even being looked at this year.......and he has done this effectively given his insane production with limited tools at his disposal........

 

If he is THAT stupid then would it not follow that he needs a dumbed down offense to run....which is clearly not the case?

[Punt75]

"Anyone who watched a Louisville game last year saw that Heisman Trophy winner Lamar Jackson was clearly one of the fastest players in college football.Now, Jackson has a super-fast 40-yard dash time to drive home the message, according to numbers announced by U of L on Twitter during their annual spring testing week.The junior quarterback ran a 4.34-second 40 on Wednesday, slower only than junior corner back Jaire Alexander (4.32), who is an All-America candidate in his own right." 

[KD in CA]

3 hours ago, mileena said:

 

It's absolutely not biased against young people. It is biased racially though.

 

Math and understanding English are racially biased?

[#34fan]

23 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'm not sure what people like you are expecting the agent to do for him in this situation...

 

 

There  much more to it than this.... During Lamar's pro day Mike Mayock commented on how difficult it was for teams to schedule meetings through his mom.

 

It was becoming such a hassle that some teams were staying away... I believe his mother truly wants what's best for him... However, in this instance, I don't think

 

she knows what that is.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, #34fan said:

 

There  much more to it than this.... During Lamar's pro day Mike Mayock commented on how difficult it was for teams to schedule meetings through his mom.

 

It was becoming such a hassle that some teams were staying away... I believe his mother truly wants what's best for him... However, in this instance, I don't think

 

she knows what that is.

 

Fair enough, I'll admit I didn't watch the pro day... I'll say though, I don't really listen to commentators this time of the year at all. They all seem to be in some teams pocket. 

[KD in CA]

3 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

There  much more to it than this.... During Lamar's pro day Mike Mayock commented on how difficult it was for teams to schedule meetings through his mom.

 

It was becoming such a hassle that some teams were staying away... I believe his mother truly wants what's best for him... However, in this instance, I don't think

 

she knows what that is.

 

A guy who still has to ask him mom what to do is not a guy I want fronting my billion dollar organization.

[Ol Dirty B]

7 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

A guy who still has to ask him mom what to do is not a guy I want fronting my billion dollar organization.

 

That's a really simple and manipulative way of looking at his decision...

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

This is the dumb sh__ that happens when you don't have a real agent.... Miami Could get desperate, but I doubt the Bills bite at 12 or 22.... Welcome to the second round Lamar!

 

So... what Mike Mayock said really had nothing to do with your posts... You're just a guy who doesn't like someone trying something different..

 

Pretty sure all of the guys who had low Wonderlic scores had agents... The agent would do nothing for him in this instance. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[#34fan]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Fair enough, I'll admit I didn't watch the pro day... I'll say though, I don't really listen to commentators this time of the year at all. They all seem to be in some teams pocket. 

 

1 minute ago, KD in CA said:

 

A guy who still has to ask him mom what to do is not a guy I want fronting my billion dollar organization.

 

I am not, by any means, a Mike Mayock fan... I just think Lamar left his throat open by choosing to do business this way.

 

Mom is great, but get some professional representation kid!

[KD in CA]

10 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

That's a really simple and manipulative way of looking at his decision...

 

 

That's because it's really simple to understand.  Having his mom be his agent demonstrates that he lacks confidence and the ability to make sound judgments.  His mom is as qualified to be his agent as she is to perform his root canal.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

 

That's because it's really simple to understand.  Having his mom be his agent demonstrates that he lacks confidence and the ability to make sound judgments.  His mom is as qualified to be his agent as she is to perform his root canal.

 

She's not performing a root canal. Comparing a root canal to a rookie contract that is pretty much already written due to the CBA just shows a lack of understanding on your part.

 

It's not him looking to her to make decisions for him.

 

Did you hear him talk about why he made her his agent at all? Or are you just assuming or projecting things on him?

Edited March 30, 2018 by Ol Dirty B