BillsFan17 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If any of these QBs start to slide I don't doubt for one second Arizona tries to move up. Need to be in the driver seat when it comes to hand picking your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Miami (OH) 854 1304 65.5 10829 8.3 8.4 84 34 151.3 2001 Miami (OH) MAC FR QB 12 241 381 63.3 3105 8.1 7.9 25 13 146.5 2002 Miami (OH) MAC SO QB 12 271 428 63.3 3238 7.6 7.4 22 11 138.7 *2003 Miami (OH) MAC JR QB 14 342 495 69.1 4486 9.1 9.6 37 10 165.8 Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Wyoming 365 649 56.2 5066 7.8 7.7 44 21 137.7 2015 Wyoming MWC SO QB 2 4 6 66.7 51 8.5 8.5 0 0 138.1 *2016 Wyoming MWC SO QB 14 209 373 56.0 3203 8.6 8.3 28 15 144.9 *2017 Wyoming MWC JR QB 11 152 270 56.3 1812 6.7 6.9 16 6 127.8 It's probably a bit unfair to compare Allen to Roethlisberger. He has the size, yes, but nowhere close to the same processor upstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Misterbluesky said: His quick release is a thing of beauty. But where the ball ends up is a thing of mystery! I’ve seen great, and I’ve seen EJ from him. Gut reaction is he scares me, but I’m often wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The more I think about the more likley I believe Allen would be the guy Beane and co would go all in for. Rare size and ability. A type of Qb who wont be in a draft for 10 years. Hes the guy they go for imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp83 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 9:36 AM, Flip Johnson said: Are we entirely sure Josh Allen won't be available at #12? Let's say we can't or don't get up to #2 and QBs go 1,2,3 - Darnold/Browns, Rosen/Giants, Mayfield/Jets. Who would pick a QB next? #4 - Browns - would have just picked a QB #5 - Broncos - already have Keenum, think they are a contender now. #6 - Colts - have Luck #7 - Bucs - have Winston #8 - Bears - have Trubisky #9 - SF - have Garropolo #10 - Oakland - have Carr #11 - Miami - maybe Miami would consider a QB Obviously other teams are in the mix and could leapfrog into that position. But it is possible that a) the Giants don't take a QB and b) no QBs are drafted between 4 and 11. If the Bills are set on Josh Rosen, none of that helps. But I suspect that they may be interested in both Allen and Rosen. Beane has the liberty to go slow and continue to evaluate because he has the ammo to get up into the top 5, but the possibility exists that a guy they like falls to him. Everyone seems to want Beane to give away the farm to get to #2. He may do that, but this is a case where patience could be rewarded. The Bears last year gave away a fortune to move up from #3 to #2 to get a player they could have stayed put for. The Jets may have just done the same thing if the guy they want is Mayfield. Beane may get his guy by staying put or making a smaller draft day trade and still keep all or most of the war chest. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000922017/article/bucky-brooks-mock-draft-30-new-york-jets-land-josh-rosen You've gotta be kidding me! The Bills are not interested in Allen! 2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said: Very nice post, I'm going to rewatch some games of Allen and then I'm done with this QB class. With Allen's arm strength and mobility if he can improve his accuracy a little bit he will be a Big Ben clone. As of right now now I would rank them 1. Mayfield 2. Darnold 3. Allen 4. Rosen 5. Falk 6. Rudolph So where's Jackson? He's a better prospect then Allen, Falk & Rudolph... On 3/20/2018 at 9:46 AM, mrags said: I want Allen the most of the bunch, I think. But he won’t be there most likely because other teams know the Bills are in need of a QB and if they want to get their guy before we pick they will move up ahead of us. In a perfect world tho, he would be available for the same reasons you say. I also believe the Giants take Barkley at 2 or the Browns will forst overall and then take QB at 4. Ill say this, if we get to 8 or so and the QB they want (no matter who it is) is still there, I expect us to move up no matter what the cost. Hopefully it’s just a swap of picks and giving up something like a 2nd or 3rd at that point but who knows Unbelievable... On 3/25/2018 at 8:54 PM, Wayne Arnold said: If Allen is there at 12 you have to take him. Why? Do you people realize he's JP Losman 2.0??? I know I haven't posted my interviews... but I'm about... just to kill this Allen noise... it make me want to scream... the best thing about Allen...is his PR guy! That person is doing one hell of a sale job. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If they get Allen at 12 Beane will be GM of the year. But he will be long gone by then, likely first overall. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) On 3/20/2018 at 11:59 AM, cashdude said: Here is some stats that show stats aren't always accurate: Tom Brady Passing Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Michigan 395 638 61.9 4773 7.5 7.2 30 17 134.9 1996 Michigan Big Ten QB 2 3 5 60.0 26 5.2 -3.8 0 1 63.7 1997 Michigan Big Ten QB 4 12 15 80.0 103 6.9 6.9 0 0 137.7 1998 Michigan Big Ten QB 12 200 323 61.9 2427 7.5 7.0 14 10 133.1 1999 Michigan Big Ten QB 11 180 295 61.0 2217 7.5 7.7 16 6 138.0 Dan Marino Passing Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Pitt 693 1204 57.6 8597 7.1 5.9 79 69 127.7 *1979 Pitt Ind QB 12 130 222 58.6 1680 7.6 6.6 10 9 128.9 *1980 Pitt Ind QB 12 116 224 51.8 1609 7.2 5.7 15 14 121.7 *1981 Pitt Ind QB 12 226 380 59.5 2876 7.6 6.8 37 23 143.1 *1982 Pitt Ind QB 12 221 378 58.5 2432 6.4 4.6 17 23 115.2 Jim Kelly Passing Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Miami (FL) 376 676 55.6 5228 7.7 6.8 33 28 128.4 1979 Miami (FL) Ind QB 11 48 104 46.2 721 6.9 5.3 5 6 108.7 1980 Miami (FL) Ind QB 11 109 206 52.9 1519 7.4 6.9 11 7 125.7 1981 Miami (FL) Ind QB 11 168 285 58.9 2403 8.4 7.2 14 14 136.2 1982 Miami (FL) Ind QB 11 51 81 63.0 585 7.2 7.4 3 1 133.4 Joe Montana Passing Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Notre Dame 268 515 52.0 4121 8.0 6.8 25 25 125.6 1975 Notre Dame Ind QB 7 28 66 42.4 507 7.7 3.4 4 8 102.7 1977 Notre Dame Ind QB 9 99 189 52.4 1604 8.5 7.7 11 8 134.4 1978 Notre Dame Ind QB 11 141 260 54.2 2010 7.7 6.9 10 9 124.9 You guys would be puking at the thought of drafting one of these losers...who suck so bad. Oh come on. Not only are these silly #s to use as a comparison to today's college #s, especially since the type of offense that these guys ran in college is so different(70/30 run pass, no holding, no 5 WR sets, and QBs didn't look to the sidelines for every play)... ...it's silly to use the other guy's Pro #s in comparison to Brady's. The NFL was a completely different place for Kelly, Montana and Marino. One(1), of the 10-15 hits/game that any of those guys took back then would be a 15 yard penalty/ejection, a fine/suspension, and an endless cry-fest if Brady took it 5 years ago, never mind today. In fact, Brady would have retired 10 years ago if he had to take the punishment that used to be allowed back in the 80s-late 90s. The only reason I don't say 70s and earlier: weightlifting wasn't anywhere near as big a deal until the 80s. Brady wouldn't have anywhere near the #s he does, if they hadn't changed the rules, and nerfed the defense so many time since 1998. The older posters will say: the nerfing began after the 1986 season, was sorta incremental, but really took off in 1998. And, the really old guys will tell you that the ear-hole, ear-drum busting head slap should still be legal, and that any hand outside of your frame is holding. Tom Brady is alive, never mind playing, because his O line has been allowed to close-line, arm bar and flat-out tackle pass rushers his entire career, while if D a guy does anything but wrap him up and gently bring him to the ground, it's a PF. So, please, just stop with all of this. It's like comparing the "live ball" stats in baseball. EDIT Just in case any of you need proof? Here's the unofficial end of Joe Montana's career: https://youtu.be/OlHUNTV13UY?t=4508 Can you name the 3 penalties that would have been called if that hit was on Brady today? Edited March 30, 2018 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 27 minutes ago, Scorp83 said: You've gotta be kidding me! The Bills are not interested in Allen! So where's Jackson? He's a better prospect then Allen, Falk & Rudolph... Unbelievable... Why? Do you people realize he's JP Losman 2.0??? I know I haven't posted my interviews... but I'm about... just to kill this Allen noise... it make me want to scream... the best thing about Allen...is his PR guy! That person is doing one hell of a sale job. ? Yeah. Some guy on a football message board with 88 posts knows so much more than most of the football scouts and draft specialists that all having Allen going in not only the top 10 but the top 5 and some consider to be the guy that gets drafted #1 overal. Got ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) On 3/20/2018 at 1:29 PM, cashdude said: I am not advocating taking Allen at all. I am simply saying nobody knows jack squat at this point and are basing all their opinions on stats from college. It is a completely valid position to look at stats of some of the best QBs ever to show that stats don't tell the whole story. Ah, I see. I agree that stats in college mean practically nothing. Especially now. What I want to see is: 1. how a guy throws a football 2. his release time 3. all the throws in an NFL rout tree; I don't need 70 yard bombs, when we might see that 1-2 times a game, and 10-20 yard passes most of the time 4. how many different team mates were targeted on average by game, then average that to per game. The first 3 are easy to find. The 4th is harder, but I think it tells us the most about the QBs mental part of the game, which is so hard to see currently. These college offenses today basically do nothing to prepare players for the NFL game. Seeing the whole team huddle, then get into formation, then all stop, and look over to the sideline for 3-4 seconds then look back, and finally snap the ball? That's unwatchable football. It's live action Techmo Bowl, and it sucks. College is regressing back to Pop Warner. "RPOs" are JV football. I don't want to pay $70 to see JV football. and I sure as hell ain't gonna sit through 3 hours of it on TV. Yeah, talent around a QB vs defense played against is all relative, so it's useless as an evaluation tool. So, the only rational way to judge whether a QB can see the field appears to be how many different people get the football thrown their way per game. So, Allen supporters: how many different receivers have you seen him target(not complete pass to, and I say that because I don't want to get into shoulda/coulda RE: drops, bad routes, etc.) on average in a game? Edited March 30, 2018 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I am starting to feel the Bills rank the QBs this way and this is the way the draft will go..... Bills rank QBs 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3. Allen I think Darnold and Rosen go #1 and #2 or #1 and #3 and the Bills can’t get to those draft positions. I think the Bills have questions on (but, like Darnold and Rosen). I think they have Allen graded with Darnold and Rosen. Or close to it. I think the Bills have none of them graded awesome. Very good with some questions. So, they can’t get to #1, 2 or 3 and Allen is like those guys. A question mark or two. Mayfield goes next as the 3rd QB off the board and Allen needs to get past Denver. So, as many say, the draft hinges on the New York Football Giants at #2 (QB or not, we want not) and Denver at #5 (QB or not, we want not). If one or none take a QB. We are good. Or either trade out past the Bills (which they shouldn’t be able to if we don’t want them to) If Allen gets to TB. This Bills entertain moving up to any spot between TB at #7, Bears at #8, SF at #9 and Oakland at #10. OR the Bills wait till #12 and take Allen hoping he is still there I am leaning towards this being what I think I want and what the Bills are grading out and thinking. Which is about a 180 from 30 days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, OCinBuffalo said: Ah, I see. I agree that stats in college mean practically nothing. Especially now. What I want to see is: 1. how a guy throws a football 2. his release time 3. all the throws in an NFL rout tree; I don't need 70 yard bombs, when we might see that 1-2 times a game, and 10-20 yard passes most of the time 4. how many different team mates were targeted on average by game, then average that to per game. I agree with these 4 things and would others... 5. Love, passion and leadership for football. The QB helps set the tone and culture for the entire organization. They have to have the cultural traits and be one of the very best players. 6. Pocket awareness and sense of urgency of football and awareness of in the game moments 7. Ability to work through progressions. But, I think that goes with #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 9:46 AM, mrags said: Ill say this, if we get to 8 or so and the QB they want (no matter who it is) is still there, I expect us to move up no matter what the cost. Hopefully it’s just a swap of picks and giving up something like a 2nd or 3rd at that point but who knows I agree with this completely. If we don’t, someone like the Cardinals will try to get ahead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp83 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 7 hours ago, mrags said: Yeah. Some guy on a football message board with 88 posts knows so much more than most of the football scouts and draft specialists that all having Allen going in not only the top 10 but the top 5 and some consider to be the guy that gets drafted #1 overal. Got ya. 88 posts on here.... doesn't count towards my 5,000+ post on BB Msg board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Scorp83 said: 88 posts on here.... doesn't count towards my 5,000+ post on BB Msg board Yeah, but the real members around here don’t count that. That’s like 26cornerblitz taking credit for 30k+ posts when all he does is copy and paste twitter links that everyone actually has access to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Would love it to happen. Just hard seeing him getting out if the top 5 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, wppete said: Would love it to happen. Just hard seeing him getting out if the top 5 picks. I think he could. I mean he has the most upside. BUT he also has tremendous concerns that if ignored is going to get someone fired. If you are in the top 5 and take him there are just some things you cannot ignore because if you do, you are a goner and you set the franchise back. Edited March 30, 2018 by NewEraBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: I think he could. I mean he has the most upside. BUT he also has tremendous concerns that if ignored is going to get someone fired. If you are in the top 5 and take him there are just some things you cannot ignore because if you do, you are a goner and you set the franchise back. Same could be said for any of the top 4 QBs. Move up for a boatload of picks and if the guy isn't your franchise QB, see ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Josh Allen = Kyle Boller, low completion percentage and wowed people with a big arm in shorts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Just now, Looper said: Same could be said for any of the top 4 QBs. Move up for a boatload of picks and if the guy isn't your franchise QB, see ya. OK but, whether fans of Allen want to accept it or not the accuracy and completion percentage cannot be ignored. If you are in the top 5 and you ignore that it's a major gamble. The other QBs do not have this question. They do have other questions to get to your point, like does this guy fit in our locker room? Can we trust this guy? I just think Allen is the most risk/reward. This is also the reason why I'm backing off of saying 5 QB's will go in the top 10. I certainly think 3 will, but I think certain concerns will move some QB talent down to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, BILLriant said: Josh Allen = Kyle Boller, low completion percentage and wowed people with a big arm in shorts I won't say that yet, but the comparison is there. If you are a GM and coach you just cannot ignore the accuracy and completion percentage. The things I like about Allen though are: 1) Played in a complete Pro-style offense (so should be familiar with EP, WC, AC offensive concepts so if he reaches his potential he can shine in any offense) 2) Crazy arm talent 3) I like his ability to move, particularly behind a Bills OL that's not all that great at pass pro 4) Throws the routes on the perimeter on a damn rope 5) Hard worker and competitor 6) Lots of tools to work with 7) Seems like a great locker room guy 8) Ran offense at the line of scrimmage making checks and protection calls - didn't need to look to the sideline for the change of play by a coach (Baker). Things I am very concerned with: 1) Accuracy and completion percentage - Again, Boller even shined at his pro day and he had bad WR's too, but nothing changed in the NFL for him. 2) Hasn't matured in knowing when to take some heat off of passes (contributes to #1) 3) Majority of his passes are/were down the field. Not much in the quick game. Can he make those throws accurately on a consistent basis (given 2 and 1)? 4) Who is he when the lights are on? He looks fantastic in shorts. But in game situations, you ask who the hell is this guy? 5) Does have a tendency to get stuck on reads when bullets are firing and relies on his arm strength to force passes into windows that are not open. He did get better this year though but it's a trait that lingers. 6) Did not shine vs Power teams. 7) Needs great assistant and position coaches around him to make sure he gets the lessons he needs. Probably needs to sit an entire season or more. Edited March 30, 2018 by NewEraBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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