The Irony of Bucky Brooks Ranking NFL Draft Prospects

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

He never recovered?  In this article from 1995 John Butler said that he DID make a full recovery and that he was cut because of “tough completion.”  Which by the way was Damon Thomas and Justin Armour.  Yes the injury could have been a huge factor in his lack of success but I think it’s fair to say he’s in bust territory.  

 

http://buffalonews.com/1995/08/23/the-buck-stops-here-as-bills-release-brooks/

He never had the 40 time again that he had coming out of college. He DEFINITELY lost a step after the injury. I remember it well from the time. 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that you hit the nail on the head. I’ll tell you what else is ironic, Bill Belichick as the greatest coach ever. 

Not following that. If anything, it seems Belichick fulfilled the destiny he was always meant to achieve. He was a football prodigy if such a thing exists.  

[ProcessTheTrust]

I don't agree with the OP's premise but it made me think of this:

[D521646]

I think. generally speaking, that, if we were to tally the success and failures of all the analysts prognostications over the last decade we'd not even be able to give a statistical significant correlation to any one variable or trait for what makes a good, bad, or great analyst.  Period!

 

I see the clowns on ESPN, NFLN, CBS, FOX, NBC, and none of them impress me in terms of confidence in their analysis, they just don't.  I'm NOT saying they aren't right every once in a while, or that the consensus on this or that isn't correct, all I'm saying is that often times their basis for making any predication about any game, or player is, well, usually wrong, statistically.

 

In short, they are no better than any of us, when it comes to making statements about players, or predictions.  Sad as that is.

 

Tim- 

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Not following that. If anything, it seems Belichick fulfilled the destiny he was always meant to achieve. He was a football prodigy if such a thing exists.  

Yes, that’s the point. What you did as a player has little impact on what you do after. Magic Johnson was a great player and a terrible coach.

[ndirish1978]

It's ironic, it is not inappropriate. 

[BuffaloRush]

1 hour ago, Maybe Someday said:

 

Completely agree.  A torn ACL was basically a career ender back in those days.  The Bills probably knew immediately that his career was over but had to give him a chance to come back.  The fact that he was able to carve out any kind of NFL career after the injury was kind of impressive.  I would not label Bucky a bust at all.   

 

 

After suffering an ACL tear in 1994, he would not have been 100% healthy in 1995.  There's just no way.  Even if the knee was structurally sound, most players with that injury at that time never made a full recovery, they lost some of their speed and quickness.  The medical procedure just wasn't good enough at that time.  Even nowadays, if a player tears his ACL in week 3, there is no guarantee that he'll be ready for training camp the following year.  Sure you have some athletic freaks like AP but many players take around 18 months to truly be fully healed and able to do what they could do prior to the injury.  Possibly Butler was putting a spin on the situation to avoid injury settlements, etc?  He wouldn't be the 1st GM to not be completely honest about a player's injury status. 

 

If it were someone like Mike Williams or Aaron Maybin or John McCargo trying to rank players for the draft, that would be ironic.  I'd put Bucky in the category of a guy who's career was derailed by injury not as a bust.  IMO, there's a big difference.

 

You could be correct about Butler but it seems that if he wanted to spin it, he’d use injuries as an excuse.  That’s an easy out.  If Bucky made a full recovery, and got beat out by low end receivers, it doesn’t say much about Butler as a talent evaluator.  You can’t afford to miss that badly on high picks.  

 

That’s why I believe Butler here.  I just think Bucky wasn’t very good

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You could be correct about Butler but it seems that if he wanted to spin it, he’d use injuries as an excuse.  That’s an easy out.  If Bucky made a full recovery, and got beat out by low end receivers, it doesn’t say much about Butler as a talent evaluator.  You can’t afford to miss that badly on high picks.  

 

That’s why I believe Butler here.  I just think Bucky wasn’t very good

He was great in his first camp. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/24/sports/pro-football-after-4-straight-pops-bills-start-blowing-up-that-balloon-again.html?pagewanted=all

 

'

On offense, quarterback Jim Kelly, at age 34 the oldest Bill, experienced tendinitis in his throwing shoulder during the off season but said he feels strong now. Kelly was not scheduled to throw during morning workouts Friday on the first day of field practice, but there he was tossing spirals anyway. Kelly said that if the shoulder feels as good during the season as it does now, he'll be fine.

The rookie receiver Bucky Brooks looks sharp and exciting. He is outrunning defensive backs and -- sometimes even the football -- with ease.'

 

Also: 

 

'Quarterback Jim Kelly felt Brooks was never quite the same player he was before the injury.

"It didn't seem like he picked up where he left off last year," Kelly said. "Bucky worked very hard. I think what hindered him more was his knee brace. I don't know any receiver in the National Football League that wears a knee brace. He definitely has the ability to do it, but I think his concentration level went down a little bit and he lost a lot of confidence. Bucky's a good friend. I just wish him the best."'

 

http://buffalonews.com/1995/08/23/the-buck-stops-here-as-bills-release-brooks/

 

[Maybe Someday]

26 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You could be correct about Butler but it seems that if he wanted to spin it, he’d use injuries as an excuse.  That’s an easy out.  If Bucky made a full recovery, and got beat out by low end receivers, it doesn’t say much about Butler as a talent evaluator.  You can’t afford to miss that badly on high picks.  

 

That’s why I believe Butler here.  I just think Bucky wasn’t very good

 

I really don't know why Butler said what he did.  I'm just 99.9999% certain that a player with an ACL tear in 1994 would not be fully recovered by 1995.  I believe it was medically impossible at that time.  I speculated that Butler possibly said that for money purposes.  If a guy's contact is guaranteed against injury (and I don't know if Bucky's was) but not for lack of production, then the GM or more specifically the owner might want things worded a certain way to avoid paying.

 

I fully believe that his career was ruined by a torn ACL and not lack of ability therefore would not consider him a draft bust.

[The Jokeman]

15 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I have to admit, I am a fan of NFL.com's Bucky Brooks as an analyst.  I think he provides very good insight and is well-spoken and articulate.  Earlier today he was a guest on the John Murphy Show (he said the Bills should be conservative in the draft with first round picks and think they have a mid-range QB in mind) and he was evaluating which players would be successful in the NFL draft and which ones (namely Baker Mayfield) may not. 

 

As I said above, I think Bucky is knowledgeable and good at his job but doesn't anyone see the irony here?  Many of the longtime Bills fans know that Bucky was probably one of John Butler's biggest draft busts.  He was taken in the mid-to-high second round drafting as a potential replacement for the great Andre Reed.   He hardly got on the field and when he did it appeared that Bucky was simply not a good NFL player.  He only played 3 games his rookie year before getting injured, but didn't catch a pass.  He was fully recovered by the start of the 1995 season but was beaten out by mid round draft picks like Justin Armour and Russell Copeland and aging veterans Billy Brooks, Steve Tasker.  Eventually he tried his luck at CB and bounced around from team-to-team to no avail.  

 

Again, I'm not saying that you have to be a success NFL draft pick to evaluate talent, I'm just saying it's ironic that the guy who is predicting the draft value and success of college players, was himself, extremely unsuccessful as a high draft pick.  

 

Bucky wasn't so much a bust but got a bad injury which lead to us cutting him, he eventually resurfaced as a DB/Kick returner for 4 other teams after we cut him.

[Buffalo716]

16 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I have to admit, I am a fan of NFL.com's Bucky Brooks as an analyst.  I think he provides very good insight and is well-spoken and articulate.  Earlier today he was a guest on the John Murphy Show (he said the Bills should be conservative in the draft with first round picks and think they have a mid-range QB in mind) and he was evaluating which players would be successful in the NFL draft and which ones (namely Baker Mayfield) may not. 

 

As I said above, I think Bucky is knowledgeable and good at his job but doesn't anyone see the irony here?  Many of the longtime Bills fans know that Bucky was probably one of John Butler's biggest draft busts.  He was taken in the mid-to-high second round drafting as a potential replacement for the great Andre Reed.   He hardly got on the field and when he did it appeared that Bucky was simply not a good NFL player.  He only played 3 games his rookie year before getting injured, but didn't catch a pass.  He was fully recovered by the start of the 1995 season but was beaten out by mid round draft picks like Justin Armour and Russell Copeland and aging veterans Billy Brooks, Steve Tasker.  Eventually he tried his luck at CB and bounced around from team-to-team to no avail.  

 

Again, I'm not saying that you have to be a success NFL draft pick to evaluate talent, I'm just saying it's ironic that the guy who is predicting the draft value and success of college players, was himself, extremely unsuccessful as a high draft pick.  

 

 

Not defending Brooks who sometimes has good and bad takes

 

but

 

he was a regional scout for a better part of a decade. Most good players don't make good coaches/scouts

 

its the role players and bench players who have the time to study and learn the game from the sideline 

[SoTier]

15 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I dont see it as ironic at all.  The NFL is full of great coaches, great GM's, great FO people throughout its history who also played football and were not a very good or successful player themselves, heck many never even made the pros.  

 

At the same time, plenty of great players are terrible at the evaluation of prospects.  One of the absolute worst GM in sports history is Michael Jordan, who is also widely viewed as the single greatest player to ever play his sport.  

 

Being a good or bad player doesn't mean you are good or bad at evaluating others.  

 

I think this is true because players with modest talent have to learn the game -- from positional techniques to strategy -- in much more depth than do very talented players just to have any kind of shot.  Really talented players rely on their talent without thinking about how or why they're doing something; it's often instinctual for them. 

 

I don't think it's particularly surprising that few if any really great NFL QBs have become good NFL coaches whereas some really good coaches have been career backups.

[BuffaloRush]

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

I think this is true because players with modest talent have to learn the game -- from positional techniques to strategy -- in much more depth than do very talented players just to have any kind of shot.  Really talented players rely on their talent without thinking about how or why they're doing something; it's often instinctual for them. 

 

I don't think it's particularly surprising that few if any really great NFL QBs have become good NFL coaches whereas some really good coaches have been career backups.

 

Great QB’s (or great players) don’t become head coaches because they don’t need to!  A head coach position is a crazy grind and a high-pressure position.  Why put yourself through that stress and scrutiny when you are set financially?  

 

I thibk Easy Ed Reed found that out last season 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Not defending Brooks who sometimes has good and bad takes

 

but

 

he was a regional scout for a better part of a decade. Most good players don't make good coaches/scouts

 

its the role players and bench players who have the time to study and learn the game from the sideline 

Most media people have good and bad takes.   

 

Grin in and bear it. 

[Ol Dirty B]

21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I dont see it as ironic at all.  The NFL is full of great coaches, great GM's, great FO people throughout its history who also played football and were not a very good or successful player themselves, heck many never even made the pros.  

 

At the same time, plenty of great players are terrible at the evaluation of prospects.  One of the absolute worst GM in sports history is Michael Jordan, who is also widely viewed as the single greatest player to ever play his sport.  

 

Being a good or bad player doesn't mean you are good or bad at evaluating others.  

 

I don't think the guy knows what ironic means.