The 1st and goal throw to benjamin

[HoofHearted]

No one here seems to understand how RPO's work...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I have no problem getting stuffed 3 times on runs and kicking a FG, What happened with Benjamin was the worse case scenario and probably much lower % of working than a sneak or a run. But who needs analytics apparently.

 

That route also is inherently risky as opposed to a slant.  

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I have no problem getting stuffed 3 times on runs and kicking a FG, What happened with Benjamin was the worse case scenario and probably much lower % of working than a sneak or a run. But who needs analytics apparently.

KB took a really stoopid penalty just like Thompson, Clay stepping OB, Hold on a 20 yard punt return, O'leary dropping pass that him between the 8&4.....  All backbreakers.....

[Livinginthepast]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

KB took a really stoopid penalty just like Thompson, Clay stepping OB, Hold on a 20 yard punt return, O'leary dropping pass that him between the 8&4.....  All backbreakers.....

I thought yesterday was a snowball of poor play from the Bills receivers with all the drops and the just short routes and some really stupid penalties.  To add to this TT was awful at passing but also poor running in some situations. Its like almost the entire offensive team just choked when it mattered the most. Its like the nerves and pressure just ate them alive. Shady was the only guy that excelled and with a bum ankle no less. I think TT, KB and bunch of the other Bills are carrying a lot of injuries that seriously compromised their effectiveness and we were not told about.

[SensiBILL]

Absolutely terrible call.  Just run the damn ball.  So what if it doesn't result in a TD immediately.  Almost better if it didn't, you burn 30+ seconds off the clock or Jax might call a TO.  Either way something good comes of it.  It wasn't just about scoring.

 

Jax got too much time.  Unnecessarily.  At the one with under two minutes, just run it at least twice into the line.  If you score a TD great, if you don't you have chewed up almost all the remaining time.  Get tricky on third down if you have to, after Jax has used 2 of their TO's or the game clock is around 30 seconds.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Thats all well and good.  I don't think it was a terrible call to throw.  It's Benjamins fault that he got OPI.  Not Dennison or Tyrod.  

 

I have no issue with the decision to throw either. Thats why you traded for KB. Just was pointing out if you want to blame someone for it blame the right person is all

[K-9]

Disclaimer: I don't wish to wade into the pool of 20/20  hindsight, Monday morning QBing. I'm just looking at that play for what it was.

 

It was smart to have an option built in on that play. And I don't blame TT for his decision given what he saw at the LOS. A loaded box and single coverage vs. your 6'6" 245 lb. wide out is what he had to see and he did. If that's a back shoulder throw, it's an easy six vs the more difficult fade vs. a premier CB. 

 

What made that play questionable at all, is the interference that never should have been called. There is always contact between receivers and defenders and the ref should have let them play because Benjamin's contact didn't prevent Ramsey from making a play on the ball. Should have been a simple incomplete pass and 2nd and goal from the one. 

[SensiBILL]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

I have no issue with the decision to throw either. Thats why you traded for KB. Just was pointing out if you want to blame someone for it blame the right person is all

Absolutely terrible decision.  A little thing called game management.  Just power driving into the line either scores, uses over 30 seconds, or forces Jax to use a TO.  Something very good comes from that, unlike the disaster that actually happened.

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Disclaimer: I don't wish to wade into the pool of 20/20  hindsight, Monday morning QBing. I'm just looking at that play for what it was.

 

It was smart to have an option built in on that play. And I don't blame TT for his decision given what he saw at the LOS. A loaded box and single coverage vs. your 6'6" 245 lb. wide out is what he had to see and he did. If that's a back shoulder throw, it's an easy six vs the more difficult fade vs. a premier CB. 

s

What made that play questionable at all, is the interference that never should have been called. There is always contact between receivers and defenders and the ref should have let them play because Benjamin's contact didn't prevent Ramsey from making a play on the ball. Should have been a simple incomplete pass and 2nd and goal from the one. 

I totally disagree.  The largest percentage result of that play was going to be an incomplete pass which is much worse than the odds on result of the pile driving run up the middle, which would have been the clock running with the ball a foot or two closer to the end zone.  Big difference.

[LABILLBACKER]

It was idiocy on the part of both. Dennison should never entrust TT with an option. I mean Tyrod never even audible ever. And TT failed to read the defense and choose the wrong play. They both have to go.

[MAJBobby]

3 hours ago, Commonsense said:

Run, run, run, pass/kick 

 

It's extremely hard for a defense to keep you out of the end zone with that sequence.

 

Is it. How did fournette and the No 1 running offense do? Took the pass didnt it. 

3 hours ago, BillsFan1 said:

When you are built to run...you run or at least attempt it. Instead Rico and TT got cute and Bills paid for it.  Run from the 1 with a mediocre passer.

 

How did that work with Jax?

[Ned Flanders]

This sequence, and the one that gave the Jags the FG right before halftime, determined the game.  Passing the ball from your own 10 with less than a minute to go, only gave the Jags free timeouts which they use to kick the FG.  That sequence was on Dennison alone.

[FearLess Price]

I honestly dont think it was a bad call. The execution and decision making was off. You dont expect to get a PI call there. You expect it to be 6 or an incomplete throwing to the red zone threat you traded for midseason. So if incomplete ur still 2nd n goal. That penalty and the penalty on the big mccoy run, cost us big time. Those were game changing penalties.

 

 

 

 

 

Still think dennison needs to go.

 

Bring in a rookie .1st round high.

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, SensiBILL said:

Absolutely terrible decision.  A little thing called game management.  Just power driving into the line either scores, uses over 30 seconds, or forces Jax to use a TO.  Something very good comes from that, unlike the disaster that actually happened.

I totally disagree.  The largest percentage result of that play was going to be an incomplete pass which is much worse than the odds on result of the pile driving run up the middle, which would have been the clock running with the ball a foot or two closer to the end zone.  Big difference.

All due respect, I'd have to see the actual statistical breakdown of this claim. What is the actual completion percentage of pass attempts on first and goal from the one vs. single coverage with a goal line defense? If it's even just 51%, your argument is moot. 

 

Like I said, I'm not interested in the Monday morning QBing analysis of that play. That's just too easy; it failed so it was wrong. 

 

I'm interested in the play itself. It was right to have an option in that situation and TT saw what he had to see for him to choose pass. 

 

Execution and outcome is another debate entirely. And I suspect if that offensive pass interference isn't called, and it shouldn't have been, then nobody is having this conversation. 

1 minute ago, Ned Flanders said:

This sequence, and the one that gave the Jags the FG right before halftime, determined the game.  Passing the ball from your own 10 with less than a minute to go, only gave the Jags free timeouts which they use to kick the FG.  That sequence was on Dennison alone.

I agree. While I can respect the idea of being aggressive and wanting more points, that field position against that defense on the road dictated using clock. Dennison screwed the pooch there. 

[FearLess Price]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It was idiocy on the part of both. Dennison should never entrust TT with an option. I mean Tyrod never even audible ever. And TT failed to read the defense and choose the wrong play. They both have to go.

 

1 on 1 coverage on the outside with KB? He made the right read.  We brought in KB to make those plays. The pass was off but it didnt matter. KB took the worst penalty he could there. Thats what ruined that series.

[Alaska Darin]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Amazing.

 

Bills offense went from 7 in offensive TDs in 2016 to bottom of the barrel in 2017. What changed? 

 

Dennison blows. The guys strategy is to methodically eat clock on 15 to 20 play drives. How do you expect to score points doing that? 

 

What changed?  Are you kidding?  Did we play the same teams?  Did we have the same personnel?  Do teams have more film on TT and adapt to what he does well to force him to do things he doesn't do well to beat them?

 

Football is dynamic and changes every single year.  If you're not changing, you're going to get rolled.  TT is NOT an accurate enough QB to start in this league and his limitations are obvious every single time the BILLS play a team with a better QB or an above average defense.  Dude CANNOT play from behind because the second HE has to be THE GUY, his weaknesses are exposed for the entire world to see.

 

The All-22 doesn't lie.  There have been guys running open all season long but TT cannot consistently read a defense, throw with anticipation, or throw an intermediate route to keep defenses honest.  Jacksonville will play a completely different and tighter scheme against the Steelers next week because if they don't, Ben will murder them.

 

The BILLS' defense held Jacksonville's leading rusher to less than 60 yards on under 3 ypc.  They gave up less than 90 yards passing.  THEY LOST.  And yes, it's because Tyrod Taylor simply isn't good enough.

[HappyDays]

30 minutes ago, SensiBILL said:

Jax got too much time.  Unnecessarily.  At the one with under two minutes, just run it at least twice into the line.  If you score a TD great, if you don't you have chewed up almost all the remaining time.

 

On this point, the pass call to KB was not the worst thing Dennison did. The worst thing was the following drive. Bills just gave the Jags a 3 and out. We have a 3 point lead and the only way we lose going into halftime is giving up a TD. So what do we do? We call 3 pass plays! One of them is on 3rd down, and we throw it short of the sticks with the receiver going out of bounds. Is there a worse call in that situation? We punt right back to the Jags with plenty of time left in the half and they predictably scored a TD. That was even more incompetent than the play calls that led to us getting 3 points. Dennison needs to be fired for those few minutes alone.

[Alaska Darin]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

On this point, the pass call to KB was not the worst thing Dennison did. The worst thing was the following drive. Bills just gave the Jags a 3 and out. We have a 3 point lead and the only way we lose going into halftime is giving up a TD. So what do we do? We call 3 pass plays! One of them is on 3rd down, and we throw it short of the sticks with the receiver going out of bounds. Is there a worse call in that situation? We punt right back to the Jags with plenty of time left in the half and they predictably scored a TD. That was even more incompetent than the play calls that led to us getting 3 points. Dennison needs to be fired for those few minutes alone.

There wasn't anything wrong with those calls and I'm quite certain Dennison/McDermott were in lock step on what the team was going to do.  Thompson dropped a PERFECT pass (one of the few thrown all day).  Once again, not play calling.  Execution.

 

The Patriots and Steelers would have flown down the field in that scenario and gotten a minimum FG chance.  We can't even consider trying because of our QB and his limitations.

[Kelly the Dog]

It's an RPO but it isn't likely what people think. Most of THOSE kinds of run pass decisions, the QB is not making a personal choice of what he wants to run in that situation. It's WHOLLY determined by the lineup by the defense. It really isn't an option for the QB at all. If they do X we run Y. They lined up all on the line to stop the run, which is what every team would do in that situation so Tyrod's job was to call the pass. He did exactly what he was supposed to. It wasn't any "option" of his. He would have been defying the play call if he ran it. That is why even though it was an RPO it was 100% a crappy call and on Dennison.

 

I'm not being a Tyrod apologist, he was terrible most of the game although he got little help.

[HappyDays]

2 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

There wasn't anything wrong with those calls and I'm quite certain Dennison/McDermott were in lock step on what the team was going to do.  Thompson dropped a PERFECT pass (one of the few thrown all day).  Once again, not play calling.  Execution.

 

The play to Thompson was like a 4 yard gain. Don't get me wrong, I won't blame the coaches for that. A completion at worst keeps the clock running even though it's kind of a bizarre choice if you're trying to drive down the field quickly. 

 

The worst for me was the 3rd down call. The receiver (Zay) is running his route out of bounds short of the sticks. That's absolutely the worst decision. If you want to call a pass, it has to be to a route that stays in bounds. That showed Dennison or McDermott had no understanding of the game situation.

[SensiBILL]

15 minutes ago, K-9 said:

All due respect, I'd have to see the actual statistical breakdown of this claim. What is the actual completion percentage of pass attempts on first and goal from the one vs. single coverage with a goal line defense? If it's even just 51%, your argument is moot. 

 

Like I said, I'm not interested in the Monday morning QBing analysis of that play. That's just too easy; it failed so it was wrong. 

 

I'm interested in the play itself. It was right to have an option in that situation and TT saw what he had to see for him to choose pass. 

 

Execution and outcome is another debate entirely. And I suspect if that offensive pass interference isn't called, and it shouldn't have been, then nobody is having this conversation. 

I agree. While I can respect the idea of being aggressive and wanting more points, that field position against that defense on the road dictated using clock. Dennison screwed the pooch there. 

Wait, you can agree with him that the Bills should have ran it from the 10 to use time but not to run from the one? Don't you see the inconsistency of your logic. If the Bills ran it from the one they either score or use time, passing doesn't accomplish that. 

 

It was a terrible, terrible call, highlighted because several of the things that could go wrong did.