Why "Loyalty" Might Not Factor Into McDermott Possibly Firing Dennison Like Many Think

[Woodman19]

5 hours ago, kdiggz said:

2nd and 25 against the defending world champs and he has them hand the ball to Tolbert for a hard fought 0 yard gain. Rico should have been immediately escorted from the field and his office cleaned out.

 

He will unfortunately survive because his out is he will blame it all on bad QB play. And unfortunately for us we all know this isn't the only reason why. His play calling is atrocious. We are in for another bad offensive season next year.

Should definitely have pulled out the 25 yards for first down play that always works....

 

At that point in the game we were merely trying to buy space to punt the ball out of our end zone since the defense had been playing well up to that point.  We always struggle to put up yards offensively and to expect us to put up 25 yards in two players with a QB stupid enough to take a 15 yard sack the previous play was just not realistic.

 

But yeah, its entirety play calling...

[Happy]

8 hours ago, westerndecline said:

How many goddamn times are going to keep fighting people after one or two seasons seriously did you think everything was just going to run smoothly in the first year that's f****** idiotic every one of these guys I was hired the coordinators the assistance the f****** maintenance guy at one Bills Drive need 5 years in my book I want to see this thing ran through with some actual continuity

 

Every f****** year we fire someone changed the system on defense changed offense of line coach fire the coordinator after two games it doesn't work that way

 

Let them establish a system a culture and something that the players can actually grow into and then judge it you don't f****** fire people after 1 year that's what f****** Cleveland does

 

 

 

Lighten up, Francis.

 

Look, you fire people when they are a poor fit and/or have done a poor job.  Dennison falls into both categories, hence firing him makes sense.  And in doing so, you give yourself the opportunity to correct a mistake and find the right person for the job.  Dennison has proven himself to be largely incapable of the job, and I would pin two, possibly three losses directly on him: Carolina, Cincy, NYJ.  But he deserves more time, right?  To do what, screw up some more only with a different QB?

Between your cursing laced diatribe, I get the basic message; continuity.  I agree, but continuity with the right people, and not just continuity for continuity's sake.

 

Easier said than done, but at least an easy subject to grasp, no?

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

13 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

You mean you don't have Ted Marchibroda's ghost taking over in 2018? I thought for sure you knew also! My cat said so, and he has a direct pipeline into OBD...

 

Not Ted's ghost.  His lesser known brother, Fred. 

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

We need a QB and an offense where we can check out of plays and make adjustments. I'm so tired of seeing a stacked line with the whole defense in the box and we try to run it up the middle anyways. This isn't high school read the defense and make adjustments like just about every other team.

[KDIGGZ]

55 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

Should definitely have pulled out the 25 yards for first down play that always works....

 

At that point in the game we were merely trying to buy space to punt the ball out of our end zone since the defense had been playing well up to that point.  We always struggle to put up yards offensively and to expect us to put up 25 yards in two players with a QB stupid enough to take a 15 yard sack the previous play was just not realistic.

 

But yeah, its entirety play calling...

Oh we are just supposed to give up. Gotchya. Do you ever watch football? So when it's 2nd and 25 you should just get the punter ready right? Handing the ball off up the middle to a FB/fat running back that's good for 1-2 power yards is the worst play I could think of in that situation. The defense is going to give you 10 yards underneath every time in that situation. You throw a crossing route under the coverage and pick up half of the yards to make it a manageable 3rd down

[Johnny Hammersticks]

4 hours ago, JM57 said:

I won't bother with checking the LAC stats under Lynn this year, because I think that last year is not necessarily representative of what he would have been as an OC if he were an off-season hire. Taking over midseason, he had to keep Roman's scheme and just make changes as he went to better suit his style, but at the end of the day it was still Roman's offense. 

 

Now, onto Roman. Let me ask you this. Baltimore brought him in this year to help Mornhinweg tweak their offense to fix their run game which has been awful for years it feels like. Where does Baltimore's passing offense rank this year? 29th. 

 

Where did his passing offenses rank in Buffalo and San Francisco? 29th, 23rd, 30th, 30th, 28th and 30th. Looks like I found a common denominator.

 

Yeah, the common denominator seems to be he has coached teams with not so great QB’s.  And yes, I’m saying that Joe Flacco stunk this year.

[dave mcbride]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Um. Wtf. I don’t care if Denison stays or goes. But how can you know how effective of a OC he is with this QB?? It’s excruciating. 

Dennison is neither adaptable nor able to adjust at halftime. He's the offensive version of the opposite of Wade Phillips (a guy who adapts to his players and consistently adjusts well at halftime when things aren't going right). The Bills are a consistently worse team in the second half, and when it happens so often, that's pretty much all attributable to system/design.

Edited December 29, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

The Bills offense is pathetic and by many account, you can say they failed the team in 2017.  Many, including myself, feel that it's time for  McDermott to cut his losses and find a new Offensive Coordinator to take over for 62 year old Rick Dennison who has been around the league for years and seen only marginal success.  According to many reports, the potential move does seem to be on the table in the offseason, but very little has been out on Dennison's security one way or another.

 

Those critical of McDermott have doubted whether he'd cut bait on an assistant after one season citing "loyalty" as one of the reasons why he won't go through with the firing.  We've had many example here in Buffalo where that scenario played out.  Most recently, Chan Gailey refusing to fire DC George Edwards in 2010 out of loyalty.  I don't think this will be an issue.  Keep in mind, McDermott has claimed multiple times that Andy Reid was his mentor.  Reid hired McDermott to take over the defense after Jim Johnson retired in 2009.  After two disappointing seasons, Reid released a statement saying that McDermott would be retained in 2011.  However, 3 days later he went back on his work and fired his protege.  

 

In my opinion, I think McDermott realizes the NFL is a business and if a coach is not successful, you cut ties and do what you need to do to upgrade.  With that being said, I don't think it's a given that Dennison is back.

 

I'm curious about those "many reports", can you share a few?

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Yes, top 7 scoring offense, but what was our passing offense rated under Roman/Lynn again?  

 

First of all........an offensive touchdown is still an offensive touchdown passed or ran for.........and that was the best offense they've had since the second SB season.

 

Better than 2 SB Bills teams.....better than several other Bills playoff teams......and better than the Drew Bledsoe team that passed the league aflame for 10 games.

 

Second........when the WR corps was healthier and deeper in 2015 they had a lot more big plays in the pass game under Roman than Lynn(18 more I believe).........they ended up with about the same total of big plays each year.........the slack was picked up on the ground, with Tyrod himself picking up A LOT of that.

 

Like it or not Tyrod has been fairly adaptive to what he's been given............he's not a franchise QB but it's not a mistake that even when given the worst WR corps in the teams NFL history and no depth at RB.......with a flimsy defense that can't withstand adversity(among the most permissive yardage defenses in the NFL)........that Tyrod has continued to keep them competitive.  

 

He simply hasn't lost any games for them........and that is unusual in a league where QB's on poorly stocked rosters typically implode and give the ball away(Bills roster definitely in bottom 5 of league).

 

You want him to win games for you.........we all do........but you need players that serve as a catalyst for the type of offense that they had in 2015 and 2016 to do so........guys that can get open deep like Watkins and Goodwin and Hogan and Harvin(when he was healthy).    Look at the Bills highlights from those years lots of deep balls to open WR........the 2017 guys can't even get open.

 

I think 2017 Tyrod is definitely a more well-rounded QB than 2015 Tyrod but he still needs weapons because he's not going to pick you apart with short passes and YAC yards.     That's not really the trend in the league ANYWAY.......it's big plays that teams seek.......and Tyrod can do that.    Bills, as usual,  behind the curve.

[billsredneck1]

13 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Given the questionable offensive play calling, use of Tolbert as an RB2, blocking scheme that took more than half a season for the OLIne to grasp, Ducasse at RG, as well as losses attributed to the offense in the Carolina, Cincy, and arguably the Jets (insisting on running against a five man front) games, I'm having a hard time seeing exactly how Dennison is an asset to this team.

Give him another year and new QB?  No.  How many games do we want Dennison to lose next year before realizing we should have cut bait at the end of 2017?

Dennison needs to go; he got much less out of an offense that was ranked 10th just last season.  

i couldn't agree more but i got a feeling he will be back for "continuity" sake. i will be extremely po'd if castillo stays.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Um. Wtf. I don’t care if Denison stays or goes. But how can you know how effective of a OC he is with this QB?? It’s excruciating. 

 

Fair question, deserving of some brain-sweat in answer.

 

1.  Run game.  drop off from 5.3 y/a to 4.2 y/a.  drop off from 146 1st downs by rushing to 97 1st downs by rushing.  8% fewer rushing plays (492 vs 455) but 51% fewer 1st downs suggest something has changed in the design of the run game, and not for the better.

2. Tolbert and how he's being used - play calling.  WTF?  I don't agree with the "fullback has no place in the modern game" crowd, but most teams who have them, use them effectively as lead blockers for their RB, not as a 2nd RB you keep fresh and sub in.
3. Taylor and how he's being used vs last year.  I don't care what scheme a guy is running, every modern scheme has plays that could use Taylor's unique skills more effectively instead of leaving them back in the office in a binder covered with cobwebs and dust bunnies.  Yes, it's excruciating, but somehow last year it was less excruciating

4. Personnel choices.  Failure to acquire and utilize an effective #2 RB - if Gillislee and his ilk are a dime a dozen, for God's sake, put up the dime and get your dozen.  Failure to acquire adequate replacements for Woods and Goodwin in the off season.  Trading Watkins without a reasonable replacement on the team.    Again, yes, it's excruciating, but when you have a known risk-adverse QB who builds trust with his WR slowly and you lop off every one of the targets he trusts, it is setting him up to be excruciating.  I don't know how much of this can be laid to Dennison's door exactly, but at least on the Watkins trade, unless McBeane are stupid, Dennison had to "buy in".

 

 

27 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Dennison is neither adaptable nor able to adjust at halftime. He's the offensive version of the opposite of Wade Phillips (a guy who adapts to his players and consistently adjusts well at halftime when things aren't going right). The Bills are a consistently worse team in the second half, and when it happens so often, that's pretty much all attributable to system/design.

 Yes, this too

15 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t see any scenario why the offensive coordinator position is not upgraded. 

 

All of the above said, I would be very surprised if McDermott gives Dennison the Turk

 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Yeah, the common denominator seems to be he has coached teams with not so great QB’s.  And yes, I’m saying that Joe Flacco stunk this year.

 

Alex Smith did somehow improve after he crossed the mountains from SF to KC, not?

I'm not saying that Roman has had Joe Montana and Steve Young to work with, but more football-knowledgeable heads than mine have questioned his passing game concepts.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Big Turk]

15 hours ago, Dunkirk Don said:

He’s coming back

 

I think there is a lot that can change between the end of the season and early March once people start doing their year end reviews and rewatching all the games.

 

While that may be the stance now I wouldnt be surprised if he had a "start Peterman" moment after rethinking things through for a little bit.

 

What a person thinks right now might not be what they think of in 3 months.

Edited December 29, 2017 by matter2003

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

14 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

I beg to differ, the QB has everything to do with the game plan an OC can implement. Whether or not Dennison is culpable or not remains to be seen. Tyrod, limited  the OC because of his inabilities.

 

There's merit to this, but what about 3 plays to Dimarco and Tolbert inside the 10? That's just pure stupidity. I mean, Tolbert is the last guy you throw a slant to.

 

If there's an upgrade available, you do it.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

2 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

There's merit to this, but what about 3 plays to Dimarco and Tolbert inside the 10? That's just pure stupidity. I mean, Tolbert is the last guy you throw a slant to.

 

If there's an upgrade available, you do it.

 

Indeed, but there is also something to be said for continuity.  Changing coordinators every season isn’t good for “the process.”  Dennison has given us some head scratchers, for sure, but I don’t think he’s been bad enough to fire after one season.  I think he’s been decent, especially given what he has to work with on offense outside of Shady.

[Nihilarian]

18 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Given the questionable offensive play calling, use of Tolbert as an RB2, blocking scheme that took more than half a season for the OLIne to grasp, Ducasse at RG, as well as losses attributed to the offense in the Carolina, Cincy, and arguably the Jets (insisting on running against a five man front) games, I'm having a hard time seeing exactly how Dennison is an asset to this team.

Give him another year and new QB?  No.  How many games do we want Dennison to lose next year before realizing we should have cut bait at the end of 2017?

Dennison needs to go; he got much less out of an offense that was ranked 10th just last season.  

2

I just don't get how others fans don't see this as a big issue. The Bills aren't going to win a SB with Dennison/Castillo running the offense, period!