Paulus Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/07/mesa-police-involved-shooting-bodycam-philip-brailsford-not-guilty-daniel-shaver/ Really, I usually give the police the benefit of the doubt, but... If I was king of the planet, the whole police department responsible for this would join the the faux cowboys in my Unit 731 remake. Edited December 8, 2017 by Paulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 But but but body cams were supposed to bring justice and truth and honesty guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, row_33 said: But but but body cams were supposed to bring justice and truth and honesty guaranteed This one was bad; imagine if the victim was black. The news would have actually talked about it, as this murder* was worse than most of the ones folks rioted about. Edited December 8, 2017 by Paulus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 i sure wouldn't want the responsibility of carrying a gun as police or soldier, thank goodness it wasn't an involuntary option for us Gen X'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Not guilty because ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said: Not guilty because ................ ...because the prosecution didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed second degree murder, reckless manslaughter, or aggravated assault. There that was easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 he reached for his back pocket after explicit instruction not to do so, which he kept mouthing off at 2nd degree murder is also a heavy charge, which this case is clearly not about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: ...because the prosecution didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed second degree murder, reckless manslaughter, or aggravated assault. There that was easy. Was this couple waving guns or just some randoms walking out of room ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The video is a part of the evidence, we won't find out what also happened. Watching the video isn't the same as being there and on a jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Air it out Fitzy said: Was this couple waving guns or just some randoms walking out of room ? They weren't waving guns, but that doesn't matter all that much. As far as whether they were "randoms walking out of room," the law says the jury doesn't get to MMQB OIS's. So it doesn't matter who they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: They weren't waving guns, but that doesn't matter all that much. As far as whether they were "randoms walking out of room," the law says the jury doesn't get to MMQB OIS's. So it doesn't matter who they are. If I’m a random innocent and this cop pulls this shtick on me I might get shot too. Guy was weeping and scared shitless. seemed like he couldn’t wait to pull. Jmo Edited December 8, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 i would advise when under a threat of this kind to shut up (and i mean SHUT UP!!!!) and do what you are told. but everyone around me tells me how they mouth off to the police or customs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Gross. The kid was clearly upset and unable to think clearly. A benefit of being a human is having a !@#$ing brain. If he wasn't so excited about the possibility of being able to pull that trigger he could have gotten the dumb ass kid away from the doorway. If he can't listen to instructions make him keep his hands face down on the floor and push forward on his head. You might be able to convince me the motion resulted to the shooting but you won't convince me that the cop didn't want to pull that trigger. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, row_33 said: i would advise when under a threat of this kind to shut up (and i mean SHUT UP!!!!) and do what you are told. but everyone around me tells me how they mouth off to the police or customs... The kid thought he was doing what he was told. Officer said "crawl," the kid crawled. I can see why it would have been difficult to convict on murder 2 or reckless manslaughter...but that whole department should be blown up. That is either a god-awful lack of training, or god-awful training. 4 hours ago, Paulus said: This one was bad; imagine if the victim was black. The news would have actually talked about it, as this murder* was worse than most of the ones folks rioted about. Didn't you hear? All us whites are going out tonight to block traffic and burn down stores in our neighborhoods. I already have dibs on the local Williams-Sonoma... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Commonsense said: Gross. The kid was clearly upset and unable to think clearly. A benefit of being a human is having a !@#$ing brain. If he wasn't so excited about the possibility of being able to pull that trigger he could have gotten the dumb ass kid away from the doorway. If he can't listen to instructions make him keep his hands face down on the floor and push forward on his head. You might be able to convince me the motion resulted to the shooting but you won't convince me that the cop didn't want to pull that trigger. They had to omit the cops bumper sticker on his gun that said “you’re !@#$ed” from the case because legal system ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Air it out Fitzy said: They had to omit the cops bumper sticker on his gun that said “you’re !@#$ed” from the case because legal system ??♂️ I'm torn on that. On the one hand...the judge is right, it's prejudicial and not material to the case. On the other hand, it may just be the sort of prejudice you want to introduce in a case like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 That entire department needs to be gutted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 His actions in the video give that first impression that engraving could have had an impact confirming what was felt. I'm not sure how far that goes with the jury but this is a trail I'd like to watch in its entirety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Depends on what the D presented that was clearly more valuable than what DA has told us to bolster her case, but that never comes out in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 When you work on the D you pick and pick and pick away at the evidence provided, sometimes it appears to be overwhelming but we live for these cases to see how it comes out. Getting the evidence suppressed or sealed is a major victory. And when the client is found not guilty, you just walk out of there and have a solemn press conference and move on to the next matter at hand. And sometimes completely surprise results show up that make you want to reconsider your faith in everything you held sacred.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 For a moment there I thought this was going to be about manscaping gone awry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 it's kinda weird that this horrible tragedy is caught up with electric razors on twitter and searches.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) I didn't watch the link, but I think it's probably the same thing I just saw on nightly news.....i don't knowthe entire story. But the guy was ordered to crawl toward the officer and he was complying. For some reason he made a motion towards his waistband and the officer opened fire. I guess it came our later that the guy was drunk. From my perspective it seems like piss poor decision, and the officer looks pretty damn bad. This wasn't an active shooter situation. The guy wasn't resisting. I would think some type of non lethal force would have been a better option. The guy didn't deserve to die. 10 hours ago, Paulus said: This one was bad; imagine if the victim was black. The news would have actually talked about it, as this murder* was worse than most of the ones folks rioted about. That's a good point....where is the rioting and looting #whitelivesmatter. Edited December 9, 2017 by RaoulDuke79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 But he did and it’s ruined the life of anyone associated with it. And our justice system requires a jury to find guilt beyond reasonable doubt and this matter is one for the ages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, LeviF91 said: ...because the prosecution didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed second degree murder, reckless manslaughter, or aggravated assault. There that was easy. All the prosecution has to do is make it look like they are trying. You don't think there is a "push" here... Even with the Grand Jury. Gee... Do you really think prosecutors want to undermine the police. The two work hand in hand. Two lazy gov't entities, really giving it their best, their all. The police and prosecution, two peas in a pod. They still gotta work with each other. Move on, nothing to see here. They tried. 26 minutes ago, /dev/null said: For a moment there I thought this was going to be about manscaping gone awry I honestly thought DCTom slit his wrists with a Norelco electric shaver after watching the remake of Jumanji! Woah! I am so relieved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: All the prosecution has to do is make it look like they are trying. You don't think there is a "push" here... Even with the Grand Jury. Gee... Do you really think prosecutors want to undermine the police. The two work hand in hand. Two lazy gov't entities, really giving it their best, their all. The police and prosecution, two peas in a pod. They still gotta work with each other. Move on, nothing to see here. They tried. Is this your answer to everything police related? I mean, really, it's like you have this response saved to a clipboard and you can post it with one click. Lazy cops! Lazy prosecutors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: Is this your answer to everything police related? I mean, really, it's like you have this response saved to a clipboard and you can post it with one click. Lazy cops! Lazy prosecutors! Maybe the word lazy was too harsh. Our system is a joke at times, but it's the best we have. They do have to work with each. I know I give my best, and so do you... But do really think everybody gives their best... You don't think some act with other interests at stake, throw around collateral damage. Especially in gov't! We both work for the gov't. The stereotype of the lazy gov't worker, cop in a donut shop, or prosecution NOT giving its all because they don't want to piss off the cops, the hand that feeds them, didn't come out of nowhere. Sorry for keeping it real Skipper. You really are naive if you think everything is all sunshine and roses. Edited December 9, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Maybe the word lazy was too harsh. Our system is a joke at times, but it's the best we have. They do have to work with each. I know I give my best, and so do you... But do really think everybody gives their best... You don't think some act with other interests at stake, throw around collateral damage. Especially in gov't! We both work for the gov't. The stereotype of the lazy gov't worker, cop in a donut shop, or prosecution NOT giving its all because they don't want to piss off the cops, the hand that feeds them, didn't come out of nowhere. Sorry for keeping it real Skipper. You really are naive if you think everything is all sunshine and roses. True that both you and a cop are "Government Workers" False that you and a cop have a different mentality. My Dad was a cop so I grew up around cops. I have worked Federal IT contracts and have encountered my share of "Government Workers" From what I've seen You have a cushy job that lets you feel self important in your plutocratic small world A cop has a stressful and thankless job The stereotype of a lazy government worker is mostly justified The stereotype of cops in a donut shop is a misnomer that dates back to the days before 24/7 convenience stores and 24 hour restaurants. Patrol units on the graveyard shift had to pee somewhere and back then donut shops making the morning batch were the only lights on Edited December 9, 2017 by /dev/null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, /dev/null said: True that both you and a cop are "Government Workers" False that you and a cop have a different mentality. My Dad was a cop so I grew up around cops. I have worked Federal IT contracts and have encountered my share of "Government Workers" You have a cushy job that lets you feel self important in your plutocratic small world A cop has a stressful and thankless job The stereotype of a lazy government worker is mostly justified The stereotype of cops in a donut shop is a misnomer that dates back to the days before 24/7 convenience stores and 24 hour restaurants. Patrol units on the graveyard shift had to pee somewhere and back then donut shops making the morning batch were the only lights on Fair enough. I know. Yet, I don't think you've ever been around in-house, gov't construction workers, wage grade guys. You are in IT see the pencil pushers. It's cushy in the sense of security. Yet, all labor is done in house. Construction jobs are anything but cushy... I am a wage grade enployee, hourly. It's like anything else, say the boots on the ground in the military... They aren't killing terrorists 24/7/365. There is down time, and I am thankful to be blessed with more than others and not being shot at (most of the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 28 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Maybe the word lazy was too harsh. Our system is a joke at times, but it's the best we have. They do have to work with each. I know I give my best, and so do you... But do really think everybody gives their best... You don't think some act with other interests at stake, throw around collateral damage. Especially in gov't! We both work for the gov't. The stereotype of the lazy gov't worker, cop in a donut shop, or prosecution NOT giving its all because they don't want to piss off the cops, the hand that feeds them, didn't come out of nowhere. Sorry for keeping it real Skipper. You really are naive if you think everything is all sunshine and roses. Are you serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Are you serious? It could happen. If a DC prosecutor decided to half-ass a case against a police officer, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: It could happen. If a DC prosecutor decided to half-ass a case against a police officer, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. That's about the only instance that it would please the cops. Otherwise I would think the cops would be pretty pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: That's about the only instance that it would please the cops. Otherwise I would think the cops would be pretty pissed. Nah, they'd still be pissed. But no one cares what the DCPD thinks. Including their union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 14 minutes ago, DC Tom said: It could happen. If a DC prosecutor decided to half-ass a case against a police officer, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. This is all I meant by my comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Just now, ExiledInIllinois said: This is all I meant by my comments. Well, yeah, I knew that...but, you know, it's 3rd... Funny that it was one of your rare coherent posts, and he still didn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Well, yeah, I knew that...but, you know, it's 3rd... Funny that it was one of your rare coherent posts, and he still didn't get it. He fooled me by being coherent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: He fooled me by being coherent. That's...not the worst defense I've heard here. Better than "obfuscation with facts and details," at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Well, yeah, I knew that...but, you know, it's 3rd... Funny that it was one of your rare coherent posts, and he still didn't get it. The prosecution can face incompetence allegations if case comes off too half-assed. But, if they are pushing in one direction, that's hard to prove. And if other parts of the system generally think like the prosecution does, everything falls into place they way the case is pushed. So much discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: This is all I meant by my comments. You meant that it could happen? Because your original post was full of stereotypes and assumptions, indicating that that's all that happens. I would agree that it *could* happen, but it certainly isn't the M.O. I apologize for my confusion. State Attorneys / District Attorneys are elected positions. You don't think that they are more apt to answer to the people that elect them? In my experience I've never seen a state attorney (or any politician for that matter) not be willing to use a police officer for political gain (good or bad). A perceived dirty cop is a gold mine for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: You meant that it could happen? Because your original post was full of stereotypes and assumptions, indicating that that's all that happens. I would agree that it *could* happen, but it certainly isn't the M.O. I apologize for my confusion. State Attorneys / District Attorneys are elected positions. You don't think that they are more apt to answer to the people that elect them? In my experience I've never seen a state attorney (or any politician for that matter) not be willing to use a police officer for political gain (good or bad). A perceived dirty cop is a gold mine for them. It's Arizona. We have bigger problems in our state and who cares about some collateral damage. The cop just happened to execute the wrong guy. Maybe next time he'll get it right. Signed, ~The voters of Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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