Rob's House Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 It's unfortunate, but this guy definitely gets the Darwin award. Why in the hell would you reach for your waist in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 35 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: It's Arizona. We have bigger problems in our state and who cares about some collateral damage. The cop just happened to execute the wrong guy. Maybe next time he'll get it right. Signed, ~The voters of Arizona. What? Are we back to being incoherent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) Top defence counsel is more effective than your DA or Canada’s Crown attorneys. The evidence has to be strong to stand all wiles of the D. the widow has hired Mark Gerogos as her attorney and that will be interesting at the civil level as she sues Edited December 9, 2017 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: What? Are we back to being incoherent? You give EII too much credit by assuming he was ever coherent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 WTF? He had the guy on the ground for 4 1/2 minutes. He was face down in the hall in the first ten seconds. Isn't that when you're supposed to go put a knee in his back and cuff him? Agree with above statement the cop was just looking for a reason to shoot. I'm on the side of the police about 97% of the time, but this scumbag should have been convicted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 57 minutes ago, KD in CA said: WTF? He had the guy on the ground for 4 1/2 minutes. He was face down in the hall in the first ten seconds. Isn't that when you're supposed to go put a knee in his back and cuff him? No, because in a hallway that narrow, anyone going down the hall would block the covering officer's field of fire. Fact is, this all comes down to the officer losing control of the situation because he was a raging !@#$, which ultimately led to the shooting. That makes him an unbelievably unprofessional idiot who shouldn't even be delivering the mail, much less working on a SWAT team. But being an unbelievably unprofessional idiot with a gun isn't unambiguously criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 hours ago, row_33 said: When you work on the D you pick and pick and pick away at the evidence provided, sometimes it appears to be overwhelming but we live for these cases to see how it comes out. Getting the evidence suppressed or sealed is a major victory. And when the client is found not guilty, you just walk out of there and have a solemn press conference and move on to the next matter at hand. And sometimes completely surprise results show up that make you want to reconsider your faith in everything you held sacred.... Man, I thought this post was going in a different direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: Are you serious? There is a reason why they have internal affairs or inspector generals. Collusion happens less often that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurmal34 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Paulus said: There is a reason why they have internal affairs or inspector generals. Collusion happens less often that way. Don't worry everyone, we have investigated ourselves, and we found out we did nothing wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 28 minutes ago, Thurmal34 said: Don't worry everyone, we have investigated ourselves, and we found out we did nothing wrong! Yeah, there have been a few killings by cops that made me want to see the police station burn. It really sucks that just select black guys getting killed have really made the news. Hearing Kelly Thomas cry out for his father as he was being beaten to death really made me choke up. Marine Sergeant Loggins being killed in front of his two daughters made me wish to God some justice would come via a renegade vigilante Marine. I guess, Dorner did kill a couple of them, but in a Karma-like manner. One Marine repaid the favor a few fold. Black guy who was shot after telling the cop he had a concealed gun is another one, but that got news attention. This killing of a man crying and begging for his life really is infuriating. In sum, I was cheering for Dorner until the moment the cops tried to burn him to death and he killed himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Paulus said: Yeah, there have been a few killings by cops that made me want to see the police station burn. It really sucks that just select black guys getting killed have really made the news. Hearing Kelly Thomas cry out for his father as he was being beaten to death really made me choke up. Marine Sergeant Loggins being killed in front of his two daughters made me wish to God some justice would come via a renegade vigilante Marine. I guess, Dorner did kill a couple of them, but in a Karma-like manner. One Marine repaid the favor a few fold. Black guy who was shot after telling the cop he had a concealed gun is another one, but that got news attention. This killing of a man crying and begging for his life really is infuriating. In sum, I was cheering for Dorner until the moment the cops tried to burn him to death and he killed himself. Cheering for a guy randomly killing people because they wore a uniform? You have a very perverted sense of "justice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sig1Hunter said: Cheering for a guy randomly killing people because they wore a uniform? You have a very perverted sense of "justice". The police need to hold themselves to a certain standard. Murdering a Marine father, as he finished his morning walk with his two daughters, at my old HS, ought be punished. It is justice in the way that Marines handed the OC police some retribution. At least I'd like to think God had a helping hand in delivering the justice. *It is something I don't think a lot of the police apologists understand. and I am one to an extent. People, tribal or otherwise (notice how Ivanka Trump used the word "otherwise correctly and the only thing I saw in the media was how others made fun of her bc of it. Man, that bugged.), will seek justice. It is not true, it is true, but life finds a way... **People are gonna sentence this guy. The social media trolls are doxing. I am really suprised at this weird form of white people riot. Seriously, if he kills himself, I wouldn't be suprised. Edited December 9, 2017 by Paulus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Paulus said: The police need to hold themselves to a certain standard. Murdering a Marine father, as he finished his morning walk with his two daughters, at my old HS, ought be punished. It is justice in the way that Marines handed the OC police some retribution. At least I'd like to think God had a helping hand in delivering the justice. *It is something I don't think a lot of the police apologists understand. and I am one to an extent. People, tribal or otherwise (notice how Ivanka Trump used the word "otherwise correctly and the only thing I saw in the media was how others made fun of her bc of it. Man, that bugged.), will seek justice. It is not true, it is true, but life finds a way... **People are gonna sentence this guy. The social media trolls are doxing. I am really suprised at this weird form of white people riot. Seriously, if he kills himself, I wouldn't be suprised. No, it isn't justice. In no way, shape, or form is what Dorner did justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 WHY DOESN’T DANIEL SHAVER’S LIFE MATTER? Most regular Power Line readers know that I don’t criticize the police lightly. I think I understand the dangers officers face when they confront suspects and need to make instant assessments of their intentions. That understanding makes me loath to condemn officers whose split second decisions produce tragic results. However, the case of former Mesa, Arizona police officer Philip Brailsford is different. His killing of Daniel Shaver warrants condemnation, though he was acquitted on charges of murder and manslaughter. {snip} I agree with Matt Walsh: Had Shaver been a different shade, there would be riots in Phoenix and round-the-clock coverage on CNN. “Daniel Shaver” would be a name as famous and ubiquitous as Michael Brown and Freddie Gray. But that’s not how things have worked, because the media isn’t interested in exposing police misconduct generally. They’re interested in exposing racially motivated police misconduct, even if they have to fabricate it out of thin air. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I get how they didn't convict for 2nd degree murder, but I'm having a hard time understanding how he escaped manslaughter. As dumb as it was for the guy to grab his pants (and it was dumb) there's really no excuse for how the cop put him in that position in the first place. I'm not big on hindsight aided judgments of someone in a split-second life or death situation, but even trying to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, I don't see how you can justify his actions. Maybe Eminem will write a song about the trigger happy cop wanting to unload his gun into that guy. Probably not, because it won't convey how "woke" he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 22 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said: Cheering for a guy randomly killing people because they wore a uniform? You have a very perverted sense of "justice". Born into the world, u have a ticket to the freak show, born in good ole USA, U GOT A FRONT ROW SEAT!!!- GEORGE CARLIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Rob’s House, from limited experience, and this is just a suggestion, a judge and jury are quick to make up their minds early on and determine who has more credibility in a dispute and once it is determined it is hard to shake it off. Settling for a lesser conviction won’t be an option if it tilts too far to the D ive seen this backfire in unjust decisions to the point where even those on the D are appalled that a lesser and more reasonable charge was swept away in the tide of larger charges dismissed. people want to dismiss feelings and emotions but it is powerful to see someone with conviction stand by the feeling they were in danger. You can’t dislodge them or use logic to change them. you just never know how things turn out in War and Peace the top general Kutuzov plans by being confident he is ready to react to whatever he faces the next morning. The others want to plan and map out every response to any plan the enemy might throw at them. it worked for him, then it didn’t, then it did in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 12 hours ago, Rob's House said: I get how they didn't convict for 2nd degree murder, but I'm having a hard time understanding how he escaped manslaughter. As dumb as it was for the guy to grab his pants (and it was dumb) there's really no excuse for how the cop put him in that position in the first place. I'm not big on hindsight aided judgments of someone in a split-second life or death situation, but even trying to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, I don't see how you can justify his actions. Maybe Eminem will write a song about the trigger happy cop wanting to unload his gun into that guy. Probably not, because it won't convey how "woke" he is. agree. this is a case that could get real protests going. this case was far worse than that pothead up in minnesota, or freddie gray or any of the instances of recent police brutality. it is tied with the cop who shot the guy running away only because the cop shot in the back there. of course, i'm not police trained but i can't understand why he was not able to find another method to have this guy reduced as a threat. it was clear the guy wasn't complying. but it was also clear that the guy was not being given easy instructions and was being yelled at vicuouisly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 You are right Boyz, it’s not clear. Murder convictions are serious things, especially in the line of duty and when it’s not clear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: agree. this is a case that could get real protests going. this case was far worse than that pothead up in minnesota, or freddie gray or any of the instances of recent police brutality. it is tied with the cop who shot the guy running away only because the cop shot in the back there. of course, i'm not police trained but i can't understand why he was not able to find another method to have this guy reduced as a threat. it was clear the guy wasn't complying. but it was also clear that the guy was not being given easy instructions and was being yelled at vicuouisly One would think that the cop would get him standing with hands against the wall with his legs spread in preparation of handcuffing him. In that position it would seem that any threatening movements would be very clear to see. It's obvious that the cop escalated the situation by his yelling and specific words. My guess is that he was a bad cop (not corrupt) not suited for this type of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: One would think that the cop would get him standing with hands against the wall with his legs spread in preparation of handcuffing him. In that position it would seem that any threatening movements would be very clear to see. It's obvious that the cop escalated the situation by his yelling and specific words. My guess is that he was a bad cop (not corrupt) not suited for this type of work. The cop was probably mad because he didn't have any donuts and a micropenis. He probably also lost to siggies hunters, which is worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 If the training was wrong you can’t hold him fully responsible, right? cant have it all ways on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 3 hours ago, row_33 said: If the training was wrong you can’t hold him fully responsible, right? cant have it all ways on him You can hold multiple entities fully responsible for the individual roles they played in what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 6 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: One would think that the cop would get him standing with hands against the wall with his legs spread in preparation of handcuffing him. In that position it would seem that any threatening movements would be very clear to see. It's obvious that the cop escalated the situation by his yelling and specific words. My guess is that he was a bad cop (not corrupt) not suited for this type of work. No, that isn't the way this should be handled. He was dealing with a possibly armed suspect, and the protocol is to bring the person to you and cuff under cover, in either a kneeling or prone position. You aren't going to go to him, in case a person comes out of the room with a gun. Those would be very poor tactics. His verbal commands and condescension exacerbated the situation, seemingly causing more stress in Shaver. He probably needed to be more calm and direct with his commands. Tactically, it was handled correctly (in my opinion) except for the part where he shot Shaver. Manslaughter would have been a fair verdict, it seems. But, still a high burden in court to reach that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: it was handled correctly (in my opinion) except for the part where he shot Shaver. Other than that, did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Just now, /dev/null said: Other than that, did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln? Yeah, that sounds bad. I was mostly responding to 3rd's idea that Shaver could have been cuffed without the crawling thing. Tactically moving Shaver away from the door, was the correct move. Having him crawl would make it much more difficult to draw, and then accurately fire at the officers if that was actually his intention. This should have, in my opinion, allowed the officers to give a bit more grace when he reached for his pants. I would think they would have had plenty of time to see the gun in his hand, and then fire before he could fire at them - since they already had their sights on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Sig1Hunter said: No, that isn't the way this should be handled. He was dealing with a possibly armed suspect, and the protocol is to bring the person to you and cuff under cover, in either a kneeling or prone position. You aren't going to go to him, in case a person comes out of the room with a gun. Those would be very poor tactics. His verbal commands and condescension exacerbated the situation, seemingly causing more stress in Shaver. He probably needed to be more calm and direct with his commands. Tactically, it was handled correctly (in my opinion) except for the part where he shot Shaver. Manslaughter would have been a fair verdict, it seems. But, still a high burden in court to reach that. You also aren't going to him in that situation, because in that hallway you are crossing in to somebody else's line of fire, which would be stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, DC Tom said: You also aren't going to him in that situation, because in that hallway you are crossing in to somebody else's line of fire, which would be stupid. Not to mention give up any defensive strategic hold that you may have, as it were in this video These officers have a route of egress. Should have gone forward they could have lost cover, or created a situation which could have had them caught in the crossfire (unlikely) or pinned down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 12/8/2017 at 8:03 AM, Paulus said: This one was bad; imagine if the victim was black. The news would have actually talked about it, as this murder* was worse than most of the ones folks rioted about. This was actually real. I mean it actually happened. Not like the Missouri fabricated nonsense put together for the lone purpose of causing riots and division. Cop's a murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 12/9/2017 at 10:50 PM, Rob's House said: I get how they didn't convict for 2nd degree murder, but I'm having a hard time understanding how he escaped manslaughter. As dumb as it was for the guy to grab his pants (and it was dumb) there's really no excuse for how the cop put him in that position in the first place. I'm not big on hindsight aided judgments of someone in a split-second life or death situation, but even trying to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, I don't see how you can justify his actions. Maybe Eminem will write a song about the trigger happy cop wanting to unload his gun into that guy. Probably not, because it won't convey how "woke" he is. Because you can't undermine the enforcement arm of the gov't. Collateral damage to keep the police from mutiny. Again, it's AZ... So many other problems in that state. Need the cops on your (the governments) side. Why is this so hard to understand. I am not being anti-LEO here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Minneapolis police gunned down a tourist in her pajamas who called because she feared a rape was occurring next door. and they tried to cover the whole thing up until it blew apart a few days later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerndecline Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) This is negligent homicide U simply order one person at a time to exit the rooms hands on their heads very slowly And to stop once they are out of the room. U then simply tell one at a time to backup slowly with their hands in the air. Its EXTREMELY SIMPLE when u keep screaming multiple commands , the person is not going to !@#$in understand or relax enough to fully grasp the situation. As former boarding team le , not only is this simon says. This is simon says retard version x super troopers Im not so sure a revolution is necessary, although what Chris doren did do was justice and was something i honor , its becoming very close.... This may be the straw that breaks the camels back. The government, the irs, and the incredibly bloated bureaucrat mess of registration and construction code, constant parking ticket, bull **** fees, bull **** dui laws for $$$, bull **** govt projects is INSANE. ITS OUT OF CONTROL.... Some city council members now have private drivers, and police in my community make upwards of 6 figures.......... The naked aggression against ppl in the middle east, a fake currency, a massive surveillance/ police st, a crony capitalism that would have our founders disgusted, the earmarks, and now this.... I tend to be the cynical george Carlin but i cant help but want to take up arms with the mesa citizens and at the very least take war to this phillip fag, the mesa police dept and reform the whole entire city government The justice system failed. If theres ever a time, the time is now Edited December 11, 2017 by westerndecline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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