Kirby Jackson Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: Yes he has been better than all of them but that still doesn't make him a top QB in this league. I am not saying to get rid of him but fans should want better. That’s totally fair. I’m not taking issue if someone won’t be happy until they get a Brees or Brady. I take issue with people that include these guys that haven’t even performed better than him. He is an average NFL starter. If people aren’t happy until it’s a top 10 guy there are no issues. The issues arise when other average QBs are raised up despite their performance not warranting it. If people start throwing out Eli, Jameis, Flacco, Mariota, etc... you are going to have to bring something better than “eye test” or accomplishments from 5-10 years ago. Right now TT is not only on par with those guys, he’s been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: The problem is that the Bills haven't had a great QB in a long time, that a lot of fans think an average QB is good enough. I wonder if many Bills fans even saw some of what Wentz, Goff and Brees did yesterday. Cause that is what top QBs bring to a team. I agree, I think they are so worried about another EJ pick that they would rather play it safe and hope Tyrod will be good enough. What stinks is if you dont buy a ticket to win the lottery you can never win it. Then again the way they prop him up comparing him to many of the greats of the game it could be they are drunk on the koolaid, look at the thread title. Edited November 6, 2017 by xRUSHx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: I am not making a list all you need is eyes to see Tyrod is not in the same class as any of the QBs you listed. Why? Because they have shown everyone they are better while in the NFL by what they have accomplished. Stats lie and Tyrods is the king of garbage stat padding that used to be held by a former Bill in Trent edwards. When a team has a franchise worthy QB teams are worried to play them because of how great they are at being a QB with Tyrod all they got to do is make him play as a QB. Huge difference. Wins/losses all land on the QB in this QB driven league, if he cant drive your going nowhere. I think they are so worried about the EJ pick they are gun shy and will just prop up what is here in hopes it' I don't think you want to make a list because it will challenge your notion that he is terrible and also that the league is littered with these franchise guys. What has Derek Carr, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston accomplished in this league? What has Joe Flacco accomplished in the last few years? Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers? Rivers hasn't had more than 9 wins in a season since 2009! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerx Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Franchise Quarterback is the stupidest moniker in sports The bar for what equates to a "franchise QB" is different for everyone. Some guys believe only guys who are Franchise QB's are no doubt sure-fire Hall of Fame guys I can't get on that bus, sure it would be fantastic to have another Hall of Fame QB, but I hate to break to people, but they don't exactly grow on trees. Tyrod has done enough to warrant keeping around as the starting QB, he's not out there making bonehead plays costing the team victories. He is still progressing and getting better. If people want to admit it or not, the growth is right in front of us. More throws over the middle, less fleeing the pocket early, more hitting guys in stride. All these things are clear every week. Is he perfect? heck no...but no QB is. I see Tom Brady overthrow receivers, lead guys too far, not hit them in stride each and every pass. No QB does it every throw. Tyrod makes enough throws to see the ability is there, the more he has played, the more consistent is has gotten. Just open the eyes and watch. This is just his 3rd year starting, don't give me the 7yr vet crap...what did he do his first 4 years except get rusty sitting behind Flacco. Flacco didn't get hurt or miss games or practices. This wasn't the Brett Favre, Rodgers case, where Rodgers pretty much took the majority of practice reps every week because Brett was banged up and hurt and couldn't practice. You can learn only learn so much on a clipboard. Timing, anticipation aren't those things, those take game reps, full speed game reps. He's been getting better at these constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, section122 said: I don't think you want to make a list because it will challenge your notion that he is terrible and also that the league is littered with these franchise guys. What has Derek Carr, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston accomplished in this league? What has Joe Flacco accomplished in the last few years? Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers? Rivers hasn't had more than 9 wins in a season since 2009! A list will not help me change my mind on Tyrod. When I see Tyrod out there and the other team stacks the box to make him be a QB and he fails miserably I have made my mind up that I want better. I want a QB that teams will be afraid to make be a QB FYI, I do not think he is terrible, he would be a good backup because he plays exactly like one. Edited November 6, 2017 by xRUSHx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: A list will not help me change my mind on Tyrod. When I see Tyrod out there and the other team stacks the box to make him be a QB and he fails miserably I have made my mind up that I want better. I want a QB that teams will be afraid to make be a QB FYI, I do not think he is terrible, he would be a good backup because he plays exactly like one. Please define fails miserably because there are a number of QB's that would do far worse then Taylor with no running game, banged up WR's, and a line that's taking the night off. They weren't rushing 5 because they aren't afraid of Taylor. They're rushing 5 because they aren't afraid of our WR's. Put a healthy* Sammy out there and they wouldn't rush 5 all night. That's why I'd like to see more of Thompson on the field. That is why he's producing when he gets a chance. If franchise is Brady or Rogers, you win, not arguing that. Most likely that is where people look with that reference so I get it if people say he's not "franchise". 0utside of that though, Rivers, Smith, Mariota, and a host of others all need a decent team effort to win and Taylor fits somewhere in that group. He definately is a capable starter and until we have someone better all the talk is just noise. Edited November 6, 2017 by Maine-iac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 7 hours ago, BuffaloFan68 said: The only way I want Tyrod on this team next year is if he is second or third string. He is not a good QB. Anyone that thinks Tyrod is a franchise QB does not know what a good QB looks like. Then again Castillo thinks DuCasse is starting material - This is a big part of our problem. Go Bills!!!!! Tyrod Taylor as the 3rd string QB???? Sheer lunacy 2 hours ago, xRUSHx said: IMO Fans want a top drafted rookie for that chance at a franchise worthy QB, will we take a step back maybe but maybe not look at Watson breaking records before hurt among other rookies that have had real good rookie seasons so you opinion on the step back is entirely yours because many think IMO it will make a brighter future with a franchise worthy QB as well as a legit shot at a better season year 1. You say it's not easy to replace a average QB with a average QB, the same was said when Fitz was here and now here we are in the exact same position and same talk, a starting QB not good enough for a playoff run but good enough to squeeze a few wins while they overpay for this QB that money could be used elswhere. Forever 7-9 baby Taylor is better than Fitz, first of all. Second of all, just last week you were saying you had one foot on the Taylor bandwagon? What happened? If you say the Jets game, you lied about ever being open to Taylor and were just waiting for any loss the Bills had to pounce. And the Jets game was not the loss to pounce on Taylor's play since that's one of Taylor's 5 best career games (I'd say) and the team lost in spite of his performance, not because of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 ....his shortcomings have been and continue to be his ability to scan/process the ENTIRE field in <5 seconds.........that is a huge mental aspect to this game as in the ability to adapt to the NFL level speed and complexity......and of course the yipsters blame THE worst receiving corp in the league......trades, injuries, suspensions, benchings, etc happen DAILY.....so I guess if his perfect world gets turned upside down, he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities...seems overcoming those would be the initial inclination of a franchise QB in the making, but what do I know............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....his shortcomings have been and continue to be his ability to scan/process the ENTIRE field in <5 seconds.........that is a huge mental aspect to this game as in the ability to adapt to the NFL level speed and complexity......and of course the yipsters blame THE worst receiving corp in the league......trades, injuries, suspensions, benchings, etc happen DAILY.....so I guess if his perfect world gets turned upside down, he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities...seems overcoming those would be the initial inclination of a franchise QB in the making, but what do I know............... So something like 5-3, 1 game outside the division lead, leading wild card team? You know on a team that most thought was tanking after the trade of Darby and Watkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....his shortcomings have been and continue to be his ability to scan/process the ENTIRE field in <5 seconds.........that is a huge mental aspect to this game as in the ability to adapt to the NFL level speed and complexity......and of course the yipsters blame THE worst receiving corp in the league......trades, injuries, suspensions, benchings, etc happen DAILY.....so I guess if his perfect world gets turned upside down, he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities...seems overcoming those would be the initial inclination of a franchise QB in the making, but what do I know............... (1) Taylor's average time to throw is under three seconds - a bit better than Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, 7/100 of a second worse than Jared Goff. No doubt they can't process the field in under five seconds too...... (2) You'd think if Taylor really was as wide-eyed & befuddled playing as his detractors are so eager to believe (to an unseemly degree, eager), he wouldn't be sitting at eleventh by the NFL passer rating - with swiss cheese for an offensive line, a running attack which is nonexistent every other game, and receiving targets cobbled together from scrap heap retreads. What quarterback does better with less? Which leads us to ........ (3) Those darn yipsters. One thing those dang fopdoodles always bring-up is Taylor's performance in the 15 games where both Watkins and Woods played - the only time his three years starting where he had close to an NFL-grade pair of receivers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs (4) Speaking of the Bad Timing Award : How 'bout peddling this - he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities - right after a game where Taylor was one of the few Bills who showed-up as a professional, played the entire game with heart & drive (while half-ass was the more typical effort), and got brutally hammered as a result. Edited November 7, 2017 by grb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, grb said: (1) Taylor's average time to throw is under three seconds - a bit better than Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, 7/100 of a second worse than Jared Goff. No doubt they can't process the field in under five seconds too...... (2) You'd think if Taylor really was as wide-eyed & befuddled playing as his detractors are so eager to believe (to an unseemly degree, eager), he wouldn't be sitting at eleventh by the NFL passer rating - with swiss cheese for an offensive line, a running attack which is nonexistent every other game, and receiving targets cobbled together from scrap heap retreads. What quarterback does better with less? Which leads us to ........ (3) Those darn yipsters. One thing those dang fopdoodles always bring-up is Taylor's performance in the 15 games where both Watkins and Woods played - the only time his three years starting where he had close to an NFL-grade pair of receivers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs (4) Speaking of the Bad Timing Award : How 'bout peddling this - he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities - right after a game where Taylor was one of the few Bills who showed-up as a professional, played the entire game, with heart & drive (while half-ass was the more typical effort), and got brutally hammered as a result. Not wanting to get involved in another Taylor thread, at least not today, I've been ignoring this thread. Came on just now to take a look. Saw Old Time's post and just shook my head. Then I saw this. Beautifully done. I'm not a big believable in the eyeball test, but I have to say that in the past few weeks Taylor has LOOKED to me like a real NFL QB. Comfortable and in command in the pocket, delivering the ball on target with the right touch, throwing balls away. My only concern has been the sacks. Particularly against the Jets, the sacks looked not to be primarily his fault. He had nowhere to go and often no time to unload it. But I'd like to know what the coaches are telling him about those plays. Did they see something different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, xRUSHx said: I am not making a list all you need is eyes to see Tyrod is not in the same class as any of the QBs you listed. Why? Because they have shown everyone they are better while in the NFL by what they have accomplished. Stats lie and Tyrods is the king of garbage stat padding that used to be held by a former Bill in Trent edwards. When a team has a franchise worthy QB teams are worried to play them because of how great they are at being a QB with Tyrod all they got to do is make him play as a QB. Huge difference. Wins/losses all land on the QB in this QB driven league, if he cant drive your going nowhere. Well if wins and losses all land on the QB then Tyrod is better than 19 other QBs who currently have a worse record and the same as 4 others who share Tyrods record. 8 Qbs currently have a better record. So Tyrod is tied for 9th best QB. Teams that have faced 8+ in the box more than the Bills... JAX NE NYG CHI CAR TEN SF PHI ARI Teams that are within 5% WAS NO KC BAL OAK NYJ DAL Guess teams aren't scared of any of those arms either. Oh and Tyrod has faced practically no garbage time this year so.... Edited November 6, 2017 by Scott7975 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) Are we still bringing up time to throw stat? That is the most useless stat out there. So many things effect time to throw. Also that stat does not include time when the QB is sacked. So when people sit there and say look proof sacks are Tyrods fault... look at the time to throw stat... its bogus because the time is not factored in on sacks because the QB didn't release the ball. They really need to change that stat from "time to throw" to "time until pressured." That stat might be somewhat useful. Horrible QB. Franchise QBs would have doubled this. Any backup could have came in and done this... Edited November 6, 2017 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 57 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: Are we still bringing up time to throw stat? That is the most useless stat out there. So many things effect time to throw. Also that stat does not include time when the QB is sacked. So when people sit there and say look proof sacks are Tyrods fault... look at the time to throw stat... its bogus because the time is not factored in on sacks because the QB didn't release the ball. They really need to change that stat from "time to throw" to "time until pressured." That stat might be somewhat useful. Horrible QB. Franchise QBs would have doubled this. Any backup could have came in and done this... My oh my... looks like Taylor was 5/5 with a TD in the intermediate middle portion of the field... one of the biggest areas of criticism folks have had towards Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Tyrod is a bridge QB, a mobile QB that relies on his feet. Unfortunately for Tyrod, he is 28 and not a spring chicken anymore. If he wants to be an NFL QB at 30+ he will have to develop into more of passer because it is wishful thinking to assume that he will be ripping off huge runs at that age. Odds are Tyrod will probably be a very good backup when he reaches 30, I don't think his game will translate beyond that point. Maybe we can squeeze 2 more good years out of him while we develop an hier behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 One of my favorite saying is " If you have to ask, then the answer is probably no"......Is Tyrod a franchise QB ?...if he really was, there wouldn't be any debate.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: One of my favorite saying is " If you have to ask, then the answer is probably no"......Is Tyrod a franchise QB ?...if he really was, there wouldn't be any debate.... I was told “no” a lot growing up. The key is to keep asking....because sometimes the answer is YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 18 hours ago, grb said: (1) Taylor's average time to throw is under three seconds - a bit better than Russell Wilson or Deshaun Watson, 7/100 of a second worse than Jared Goff. No doubt they can't process the field in under five seconds too...... (2) You'd think if Taylor really was as wide-eyed & befuddled playing as his detractors are so eager to believe (to an unseemly degree, eager), he wouldn't be sitting at eleventh by the NFL passer rating - with swiss cheese for an offensive line, a running attack which is nonexistent every other game, and receiving targets cobbled together from scrap heap retreads. What quarterback does better with less? Which leads us to ........ (3) Those darn yipsters. One thing those dang fopdoodles always bring-up is Taylor's performance in the 15 games where both Watkins and Woods played - the only time his three years starting where he had close to an NFL-grade pair of receivers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs (4) Speaking of the Bad Timing Award : How 'bout peddling this - he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities - right after a game where Taylor was one of the few Bills who showed-up as a professional, played the entire game with heart & drive (while half-ass was the more typical effort), and got brutally hammered as a result. ....differing opinions make this place function as intended......appreciate the response...I think at the end of the day, we BOTH want the kid to succeed......rooting against him, hoping that he fails is senseless and only hurts the team.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 19 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....his shortcomings have been and continue to be his ability to scan/process the ENTIRE field in <5 seconds.........that is a huge mental aspect to this game as in the ability to adapt to the NFL level speed and complexity......and of course the yipsters blame THE worst receiving corp in the league......trades, injuries, suspensions, benchings, etc happen DAILY.....so I guess if his perfect world gets turned upside down, he earns a right to pout in the corner versus showing leadership to overcome those adversities...seems overcoming those would be the initial inclination of a franchise QB in the making, but what do I know............... I agree my friend , shortcomings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....differing opinions make this place function as intended......appreciate the response...I think at the end of the day, we BOTH want the kid to succeed......rooting against him, hoping that he fails is senseless and only hurts the team.......... Total agreement...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts