What Would Jack Kemp Do?

[grinreaper]

only to out of towners, asswipe

People tend to discount (or not even realize) the affect that air conditioning had on the influx of northerners (like you Mr. Ohioan) to the south.

[Kelly the Dog]

People tend to discount (or not even realize) the affect that air conditioning had on the influx of northerners (like you Mr. Ohioan) to the south.

And quickly became hot heads.

[grinreaper]

That totally ruins your argument, bud. She lies about everything.

I presume then that you didn't vote for her?

[boyst]

If the north wouldn't have invaded the south maybe they'd have worked better with the rest of the country back then.

And quickly became hot heads.

better than an air head, but not as good as road head.

 

Which one you offering?

[Tiberius]

Because "I will bankrupt the coal industry".

Health care is the biggest employer in WV. Part of me almost wishes...no, no it doesn't

[Kelly the Dog]

I presume then that you didn't vote for her?

I hated her but held my nose. I knew what Trump was. Hillary is horrible a lot of the time. Was a horrendous candidate against Obama and even worse against Trump. She cannot ever take responsibility in the refined Clinton tradition. She ran a dumb campaign. And while I think the overall branding of the left as elitist is nonsense, she is an elitist and acted like one and lost because she is one.

[TakeYouToTasker]

You don't believe there is real racism, or it has diminished to the point that it is marginal, and minorities only real problems is they don't try hard enough or not smart enough to get as many jobs in the fair marketplace as whites. Because that is what you're saying when you say that it's all socio-economic despite the claim that poor whites suffer, too, which is wholly true.

Again, you're strawmanning my argument.

 

My argument is that:

 

1) we don't all start off equally

2) black Americans have a higher likelihood of starting off further behind because of prior injustices from decades pat and because of perverse incentives created by the welfare state

3) the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor for not living in poverty if you don't have children out of wedlock, graduate from high school, and get and keep any job. this transcends race.

4) black children are 72% likely to be born out of wedlock, and black males only graduate high school at a rate of 41%.

5) the further behind you start, the more important the decisions are that you make

[grinreaper]

I hated her but held my nose. I knew what Trump was. Hillary is horrible a lot of the time. Was a horrendous candidate against Obama and even worse against Trump. She cannot ever take responsibility in the refined Clinton tradition. She ran a dumb campaign. And while I think the overall branding of the left as elitist is nonsense, she is an elitist and acted like one and lost because she is one.

Obviously there was much debate here in 2016 and I think it was DC Tom who put it in perspective. If Hillary was elected she could get away with the bs much like Obama did, but Trump wouldn't be able to get away with it because of checks and balances. The SC makeup was a serious concern for most of us. I personally (in the real world) was able to convince 3 women to vote for Trump based on the SC angle, even though they thought he was a pig and were disgusted by him.

[row_33]

Again, you're strawmanning my argument.

 

My argument is that:

 

1) we don't all start off equally

2) black Americans have a higher likelihood of starting off further behind because of prior injustices from decades pat and because of perverse incentives created by the welfare state

3) the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor for not living in poverty if you don't have children out of wedlock, graduate from high school, and get and keep any job. this transcends race.

4) black children are 72% likely to be born out of wedlock, and black males only graduate high school at a rate of 41%.

5) the further behind you start, the more important the decisions are that you make

 

Some get zero strikes at the plate. Some get one. Some get 40 or so.

 

Best to not tell people it's okay to run around and act irresponsibly without a second's thought on how this will 100% obviously play out very quickly.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Wallace took a ton of the Southern vote in 1968 and with the Dems also destroying any self-respect at Chicago in 1968, basically the party couldn't field a serious candidate for President until 1992, there was nowhere else to go for a long time for people who want to work for a living. The clown Carter was a bad LSD flashback that is best forgotten.

 

This could happen again in 2020, would be most amusing.

Yet the people voted in 1976. Then the Russians meddled in 2016.

 

Yeah... Two non-serious wins there. What does that say about the people voting?

[row_33]

76 was about Watergate and Nam, so the people were allowed to have a moronic voting pass, the only one where the better candidate didn't win for the elections since i started caring in 1972. All the others the People got it very very right.

[Kelly the Dog]

Again, you're strawmanning my argument.

 

My argument is that:

 

1) we don't all start off equally

2) black Americans have a higher likelihood of starting off further behind because of prior injustices from decades pat and because of perverse incentives created by the welfare state

3) the odds are overwhelmingly in your favor for not living in poverty if you don't have children out of wedlock, graduate from high school, and get and keep any job. this transcends race.

4) black children are 72% likely to be born out of wedlock, and black males only graduate high school at a rate of 41%.

5) the further behind you start, the more important the decisions are that you make

Thank you for the reasoned and reasonable response.

So the first two are admittedly because of racism.

The last one, while I agree with it, puts an undue burden on minorities regardless of its truth and how much they should heed your good advice, because of racism.

 

And the middle two, while also true, has a small part, some sizable chunk, if not a lot to do with real AND perceived racism because it is a lot to do with providing for your family or reach your dreams or the common causes of divorce, usually over money and infidelity.

 

I will say, however, before anyone goes insane, that I wholeheartedly believe that blacks themselves are a huge part of the problem. I do believe a huge chunk of perceived racism is not indeed racism. I do believe a ridiculous portion of the minority population doesn't do what they should be doing to improve their state of being and quality of life that has nothing to do with whitey keeping them down. I do believe black males have an atrocious track record of fidelity and lacking the responsibility of fatherhood and husbandry. I do believe that far too big a percentage take the easy way out and accept their station rather than working that much harder to get out of the band hand you may or may not have been dealt. They are total coconspirators in their plight in the minorities in poverty issues.

 

And there are a schit ton of racists all over the country that is mostly independent of those issues I mentioned that !@#$ with minorities and have a signifant affect on jobs and poverty and happiness and quality of life.

[LeviF]

Thank you for the reasoned and reasonable response.

So the first two are admittedly because of racism.

The last one, while I agree with it, puts an undue burden on minorities regardless of its truth and how much they should heed your good advice, because of racism.

 

And the middle two, while also true, has a small part, some sizable chunk, if not a lot to do with real AND perceived racism because it is a lot to do with providing for your family or reach your dreams or the common causes of divorce, usually over money and infidelity.

 

I will say, however, before anyone goes insane, that I wholeheartedly believe that blacks themselves are a huge part of the problem. I do believe a huge chunk of perceived racism is not indeed racism. I do believe a ridiculous portion of the minority population doesn't do what they should be doing to improve their state of being and quality of life that has nothing to do with whitey keeping them down. I do believe black males have an atrocious track record of fidelity and lacking the responsibility of fatherhood and husbandry. I do believe that far too big a percentage take the easy way out and accept their station rather than working that much harder to get out of the band hand you may or may not have been dealt. They are total coconspirators in their plight in the minorities in poverty issues.

 

And there are a schit ton of racists all over the country that is mostly independent of those issues I mentioned that !@#$ with minorities and have a signifant affect on jobs and poverty and happiness and quality of life.

 

I wouldn't say "blacks themselves" you !@#$ing racist.

 

I would say that the culture that's been crafted in heavily black, poor neighborhoods has contributed a lot to this, and it's not just black males. When I worked in child welfare, a lot of the black males I encountered wanted to see their children and contribute positively to their lives. But the women that bore their children would do everything in their power to keep the children away from the fathers. Not to mention the number of women I met who have four children with four different surnames. It's trendy to blame black men but I'm not convinced they're even most of the problem, much less the entire problem.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Thank you for the reasoned and reasonable response.

So the first two are admittedly because of racism.

The last one, while I agree with it, puts an undue burden on minorities regardless of its truth and how much they should heed your good advice, because of racism.

 

And the middle two, while also true, has a small part, some sizable chunk, if not a lot to do with real AND perceived racism because it is a lot to do with providing for your family or reach your dreams or the common causes of divorce, usually over money and infidelity.

 

I will say, however, before anyone goes insane, that I wholeheartedly believe that blacks themselves are a huge part of the problem. I do believe a huge chunk of perceived racism is not indeed racism. I do believe a ridiculous portion of the minority population doesn't do what they should be doing to improve their state of being and quality of life that has nothing to do with whitey keeping them down. I do believe black males have an atrocious track record of fidelity and lacking the responsibility of fatherhood and husbandry. I do believe that far too big a percentage take the easy way out and accept their station rather than working that much harder to get out of the band hand you may or may not have been dealt. They are total coconspirators in their plight in the minorities in poverty issues.

 

And there are a schit ton of racists all over the country that is mostly independent of those issues I mentioned that !@#$ with minorities and have a signifant affect on jobs and poverty and happiness and quality of life.

The first two are not because of racism.

 

The first point, we don't all start off equally, applies to every person on the planet. It's simply reality. Some people are born smarter, or with better over all genetics. Some are born the child of Bill Gates. None of that is due in any way to racism.

 

The second point, black Americans have a higher likelihood of starting off further behind because of prior injustices from decades past and because of perverse incentives created by the welfare state, is due to racism from the past by people who are mostly dead now, and because of a system that rewards poor behavior with money for the purpose of creating a permanent underclass as a voting block. Summed up very succinctly by Lyndon B. Johnson: "I'll have those n*****s voting Democratic for the next 200 years."; soft-slavery is perpetual multi-generational dependance, which serves to hold a group of people in a perpetual underclass by making their chains fit softly upon their wrists. It started off with the desruction of the black family, but is no longer isolated to minorities. It is the marginalization of the black male (now all males). It is the handout that replaced that paycheck which made the marginalization of men possible. It is the incentivization of these same behaviors, generation after generation, which normalizes, and removes the shame. But most importantly, it is the slave masters, using these humans for nothing more than their votes, much like the Southern farmer in his field. Again, this was started along racial lines, but now extends into all racial groups.

 

The third is in no way racial. It is hard truths. These truths apply to all races. Black two parent families have much better odds of being in the middle class than single white parents.

 

The fourth breaks down on racial lines, but is not racist. There are no white racists out there forcing black people to have children out of wedlock, nor are there white racists forcing black men out of high school. This is a major cultural problem that black Americans have to solve for themselves. It cannot be done for them.

 

The fifth and final point is absolutely not placing an undue burden on black people. In a free society we are all required to own our decision making. The freedom to make a good decision is also the freedom to make a bad decision, and there is nothing inherent to having more melanin that makes blacks less capable of good decision making. They are just as smart and as capable as their white counterparts, and they have agency. Again, much of this is due to a cultural problem with an upside-down value system as relates to being successful and escaping intergenerational poverty.

[row_33]

So behave towards others as we'd like them to behave towards us?

 

That's a good start.

[ExiledInIllinois]

So behave towards others as we'd like them to behave towards us?

 

That's a good start.

I treat myself like schit. And I love it! Oops.

[row_33]

I treat myself like schit. And I love it! Oops.

 

From some of your answers you know better than that....

[Nanker]

You know that saying first one to use Hitler in an argument loses? It's just as true using first one to use Robert Byrd as a Democrat loses. It proves Exiled in Illinformed's point.

Oh sure, Godwin. He wasn't a racist. He wasn't a Democrat. He wasn't an icon of that party.

 

[DC Tom]

You know that saying first one to use Hitler in an argument loses? It's just as true using first one to use Robert Byrd as a Democrat loses. It proves Exiled in Illinformed's point.

You know who else lost an argument by being the first to use Hitler in an argument? Hitler.

[Boatdrinks]

The two situations are not comparable.

 

Kemp encountered actual racism and discrimination.

 

Today's protesters deal with nothing of the sort.

Excellent point. This isn't the 1960's. How do some folks get up in the morning with all that inner guilt from a past they likely never lived in?