The Dennison Run Attack

[gjv001]

I was hopeful that the new coaching staff would keep the Offense that was successful last season, and avoid a learning curve. Unfortunately, they took the path of fixing something that wasn't broken.

As if that wasn't bad enough, they have chosen to force feed Taylor into a dropback pocket Quarterback. I was always under the impression that you design to your player's strengths, thus putting them

into the best position for them to succeed.

[Marty McFly]

I hate the run game this year. The one thing we had last year was an amazing run game. Use Tyrod in a read option type of approach where a defender has to account for him, and spread the defence out. I had an argument with a few posters last year saying if the bills ran a tradional run game approach, that it wouldn't work, but they disagreed. So far it has been uninspiring, and i think it is terrible that they don't make defences account for taylor's legs on run plays

 

Yeah where was the read option last week? Are we jus gonna forget about how good it works for us?

 

 

 

The Bills weren't 8-8 or 7-9 last year because they ran the ball well and didn't pass enough. Their defense wasn't any good. Now the defense looks improved, but they have tinkered most with an offense that was working at scoring points.

 

Bingo. Fix one side of the ball, ruin the other, story of Bills.

 

 

It is almost unthinkable that the Bills aren't running more of the north south plays that were proven successful again and again and again over the last 2 years.

 

Why in the world, as a new (to this team) offensive coordinator, wouldn't you use the simplest most successful running plays that your team executed at a high level the last 2 years?

 

Only explanation I have is that Dennison must think he is smarter/wiser than Greg Roman and that his way is the RIGHT way and ONLY way.

 

It scares me that your explanation might be right on. MFer calls a terrible game, doesnt adjust the game plan at half, and throws out concepts that had this team scoring points last year.

[Foreigner]

Can anyone tell me what Dennisons year by year record in Denver was and who the Quarterbacks were and why he was fired,

if he was. Trying to figure if he made the offense successful or whether it was the talent

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Heard Luke Kuechly on a different website was calling out the Bill's plays in the game. WOW...................

[Billsmovinup]

That's all pretty accurate. So is the fact that the Bills were tops in a number of categories in rushing over the past couple of seasons. So why not continue this??

 

Because it resulted in 8-8 and 7-9. This is a passing league. When you start pulling linemen, you're telling your opponent you're running. It's an instant key. The Bills were still capable of pulling it off but alas it's still .500 ball.

 

If Tyrod Taylor was capable of a 3-step drop and IMMEDIATE throw (there were guys open) then Carolina would have been forced to respect the tight end and slot receiver. Then your run lanes open up.

 

I don't believe the Bills hired an entirely new coaching staff just to do the same thing as their predecessors. Sean McDermott cannot bench Taylor immediately and hope to keep the team focused. But at some point, we will see Nathan Peterman behind center. He may not be a 22 yo version of Tom Brady (and then again, he might be), but he demonstrated the ability to make immediate throws. Yeah yeah I know it was preseason. But the fact is that a proper quick NFL throw can be carried out regardless of the competition.

 

Rick Dennison is charged with creating an NFL offense. It requires an NFL quarterback.

 

 

So the defense had nothing to do with last years record?

[Big Turk]

As an ex army officer, I love tactics. But I've never had the time to learn the intricacies of NFL offenses. Even with my average-ish understanding, though, the run game has me worried after the Panthers game.

 

I was in awe of the Roman-designed rushing attack. Sometimes you'd see plays where none of the offensive linemen had to overwhelm their guy. They just had to be in the right place on the right time. Roman's attack was often predicated upon discipline, timing, athleticism and precision. It didn't always require the OL to be maulers. And yet they gave Shady and MB plenty of space to run.

 

Rico said he spent a lot of time watching the 2016 Bills rushing attack to see what works. And yet Rico's zone-blocking scheme doesn't bear any resemblance - in my eyes - to Roman's scheme. Our OL weren't winning the one-on-one battles against the Panthers that they had to win and the holes weren't there.

 

I noticed the difference in the blocking/running scheme during the Jets game but we were so productive that game, who cared? But now I'm worried that Rico didn't borrow enough from Roman. Given who we have at QB and WR, we need our rushing attack to be highly productive. Sunday, it wasn't.

 

I'd love to hear some observations and insights from guys who are better at Xs and Os than I am.

 

Part of the issue is nobody is afraid of any of our WR's so they can just load the box up against the run.

[hondo in seattle]

I guess you meant Greg.

 

I was thinking "Roman" like Publius Cornelius Scipio at Zama.

 

 

Really more of a Hannibal Barca fan myself (Cannae and all that).

Edited September 21, 2017 by hondo in seattle

[hondo in seattle]

I hate the run game this year. The one thing we had last year was an amazing run game. Use Tyrod in a read option type of approach where a defender has to account for him, and spread the defence out. I had an argument with a few posters last year saying if the bills ran a tradional run game approach, that it wouldn't work, but they disagreed. So far it has been uninspiring, and i think it is terrible that they don't make defences account for taylor's legs on run plays

 

I agree. I think Tyrod was underrated last year because he added more to the offense than his passing yards + rushing yards. His talent as a dual threat QB was integrated into the running game. And that made Shady and MG more effective.

 

This year, so far, Tyrod has been mostly used as a passer who can scramble. He's not actually integrated into our more conventional running attack. As a passer he's limited. And without the threat of TT keeping the ball, defenses key more exclusively on Shady.

 

We've only had one bad game but I admit it's worrisome. Rico is a smart guy with a good background and yet there's little evidence thus far that he's learned much from last year's tape.

Edited September 21, 2017 by hondo in seattle

[bobobonators]

That's all pretty accurate. So is the fact that the Bills were tops in a number of categories in rushing over the past couple of seasons. So why not continue this??

 

Because it resulted in 8-8 and 7-9. This is a passing league. When you start pulling linemen, you're telling your opponent you're running. It's an instant key. The Bills were still capable of pulling it off but alas it's still .500 ball.

 

If Tyrod Taylor was capable of a 3-step drop and IMMEDIATE throw (there were guys open) then Carolina would have been forced to respect the tight end and slot receiver. Then your run lanes open up.

 

I don't believe the Bills hired an entirely new coaching staff just to do the same thing as their predecessors. Sean McDermott cannot bench Taylor immediately and hope to keep the team focused. But at some point, we will see Nathan Peterman behind center. He may not be a 22 yo version of Tom Brady (and then again, he might be), but he demonstrated the ability to make immediate throws. Yeah yeah I know it was preseason. But the fact is that a proper quick NFL throw can be carried out regardless of the competition.

 

Rick Dennison is charged with creating an NFL offense. It requires an NFL quarterback.

 

 

 

This is just lazy posting man.

 

I'm sure you, and many TT detractors, would be pining to have Siemian at QB. Yet Dennison with Siemian last year was 27th in the NFL in Yds/game; Denver was 22nd in points/game.

 

Bills were 16th in yds/game with EJ starting a game; and 10th in points/game with EJ starting a game (we ranked approx 8th in NFL in points/game through Week 16 - Tyrod's last game before season finale vs. Jets).

 

In 2015, with HOF QB Peyton Manning, Denver was: 16th in Yds/game; and Denver was 19th in points/game in the NFL

 

Bills were 13th in Yds/game; and 12th in points/game w/Tyrod playing 14 games and EJ 2.

 

 

So what are you saying about Dennison's NFL offense again? Seems to me that our offense, with what you would consider to be a non-NFL QB in Tyrod, has been lightyears ahead of Denver's the last 2 seasons. And that was with Dennison having Siemian at QB and Peyton Manning at QB.

[Clyde Smith]

Since we no longer have J. Williams on the roster, they need to give Banyard the ball more. I'm sorry but Tolbert is trash, too slow. we need shiftiness and speed back there.

[8-8 Forever?]

I hate the run game this year. The one thing we had last year was an amazing run game. Use Tyrod in a read option type of approach where a defender has to account for him, and spread the defence out. I had an argument with a few posters last year saying if the bills ran a tradional run game approach, that it wouldn't work, but they disagreed. So far it has been uninspiring, and i think it is terrible that they don't make defences account for taylor's legs on run plays

this is what happens when you blow up the entire organization, new coaches bring different approaches. is what it is

[Rochesterfan]

I hate the run game this year. The one thing we had last year was an amazing run game. Use Tyrod in a read option type of approach where a defender has to account for him, and spread the defence out. I had an argument with a few posters last year saying if the bills ran a tradional run game approach, that it wouldn't work, but they disagreed. So far it has been uninspiring, and i think it is terrible that they don't make defences account for taylor's legs on run plays

 

I understand everyone's concern, but I think we all remember last year by how the whole season played out - not a couple of games.

 

The NYJ game this year was better than the first 2 games last year combined by nearly 50 yards and Ithink they could of run for more in that game - they opened holes all over.

 

The Carolina game which looked terrible was still better than Baltimore last year and almost as good as the rushing attack versus the Jets in Game 2 last year.

 

Yes we see some of the same issues cropping up, but teams that have strong fast LBs and a good DL are going to give most teams trouble in the running game.

 

The running game works in his offense in conjunction with the passing game. If a team can stop one or the other for long stretchs it is going to look bad. They need to get a least one aspect working to take pressure off from the other and open it up. They had the exact same issue in Baltimore last year where neither could get going until Baltimore backed off late in the game.

[hondo in seattle]

I understand everyone's concern, but I think we all remember last year by how the whole season played out - not a couple of games.

 

The NYJ game this year was better than the first 2 games last year combined by nearly 50 yards and Ithink they could of run for more in that game - they opened holes all over.

 

The Carolina game which looked terrible was still better than Baltimore last year and almost as good as the rushing attack versus the Jets in Game 2 last year.

 

Yes we see some of the same issues cropping up, but teams that have strong fast LBs and a good DL are going to give most teams trouble in the running game.

 

The running game works in his offense in conjunction with the passing game. If a team can stop one or the other for long stretchs it is going to look bad. They need to get a least one aspect working to take pressure off from the other and open it up. They had the exact same issue in Baltimore last year where neither could get going until Baltimore backed off late in the game.

 

 

I think last year, our Roman/Lynn offense gave defenses a choice. Either stop Shady or stop Tyrod who's either going to run or throw.

 

This year, our Dennison offense gives defenses a similar choice. Either stop Shady's running or Tyrod throwing. It's an easy choice. They stop Shady.

[Rochesterfan]

I think last year, our Roman/Lynn offense gave defenses a choice. Either stop Shady or stop Tyrod who's either going to run or throw.

 

This year, our Dennison offense gives defenses a similar choice. Either stop Shady's running or Tyrod throwing. It's an easy choice. They stop Shady.

 

That is exactly what Baltimore did last year stop Shady and force TT to beat them.

 

There will be games that a team puts 8-9 guys in the box and Shady will break 1-2 long runs because of a crease.

 

I think the key is the horizontal zones in the passing game - getting guys that are covered 1:1 and hitting them in stride as they move through a zone. That spreads the defense out opening up lanes to pass and run.

 

What I find scary about this is the outside zone rushing attack is designed to attack DEs and OLBs and that is supposed to open up the middle part of the field - which we exploited in game 1.

 

Carolina used Kechely as a Spy many times - just watching TT and moving where gaps in the DLine would open up and that left him in the short middle of the field much of the game - so the openings needed to be deeper middle and quick slants.

 

As I have said in other threads - I think this offense plays into the strengths of the WRs and TEs and FBs we have and should work for Shady as a running back, but it does not play into the strengths of TT. I think they want to see what these guys can do and then look this off season for the QB that fits what they want - be that a more experienced Peterman, a rookie, or a veteran from another team. I also think that the right side of the OLine needs improvement before we are ready to go.

[mjt328]

That's all pretty accurate. So is the fact that the Bills were tops in a number of categories in rushing over the past couple of seasons. So why not continue this??

 

Because it resulted in 8-8 and 7-9. This is a passing league. When you start pulling linemen, you're telling your opponent you're running. It's an instant key. The Bills were still capable of pulling it off but alas it's still .500 ball.

 

 

I get so tired of hearing this.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a "run first" team. There is nothing wrong with being a "run heavy" team.

Both of these techniques can win in today's NFL, and have proven they can win recently. One of the most recent examples being the 2015 Carolina Panthers, who went 15-1 in the regular season and went to the Super Bowl.

 

Where the Bills run into trouble, is they need to be efficient at passing when the run game is ineffective. When teams load 8-9 in the box, we need to be able to take advantage in the passing game. When we are behind by 2 or more scores and need to move the ball quickly, we need to do it through the air in big chunks. When we have a 2 minute drill and need a quick drive, it has to be mostly passing.

[mjt328]

I don't recall Buffalo running many (QB keeper) zone reads under Dennison yet either (maybe they ran some - I don't recall them though), whereas Roman liked to use Tryod as a second running back by calling those plays. And they were extremely effective the last 2 years. And they force defenses to pay more attention to the QB in other plays - which can open things up even more for the primary running back (McCoy).

 

Those zone reads were part of the reason why Buffalo was harder to defend against the run. The defenses had to respect the fact that the QB could very likely end up being the runner - not just the half back. That is where most of the argument comes from when someone suggests that Tyrod adds to the run game in more ways than people realize. He absolutely does - if they use him that way. Defenses can be forced to respect him as an elite runner because he could take one to the house just like a starting running back or shifty receiver can. If the Bills run them, they force the next opponent to game plan for it. That forces defenders to think more after the snap instead of just react. That can slow their reaction time down resulting in a bigger play for our runner. (More yards before contact - as witnessed last year) Some would argue that is part of the reason why the Bills running game was extra - effective the last two years. Defense is more uncertain who is going to be running the ball.

 

If the Bills don't run and execute those plays enough this year - the defenses don't have to game plan against them and the defenders can key in on McCoy instead of waiting to see which guy is actually running with the ball. The end result is less yards before contact, less yards per play, less chain moving, fewer big running plays, less scoring, etc...

 

I really like this post. This is what I kept arguing in the offseason.

 

We kept hearing about how Roman/Lynn had zone blocking schemes "mixed in", so the Bills running game would be fine doing it all the time. But it's not that simple. Much of the reason the 2015-2016 rushing attack was so effective, was because it was unpredictable and complicated for defenses to figure out. Zone blocking was only a small piece before. Now it's the whole thing. The Tyrod factor is also huge. As I mentioned in a few other threads, McDermott/Dennison are not going to adapt their offense to Taylor's game. They are putting him under center, and that's the end of the story. It doesn't fit his strengths, and teams are not fearing his running ability like before. Defenses now have an easier time defending our running game.

 

Mix in the fact that we no longer have deep threat speed to keep the safeties honest, and Cordy Glenn's injuries - I think you have a recipe for a total disaster. The offense struggled in training camp. It struggled in preseason. The only time it hasn't struggled (since the new regime took over) was the Jets game, against possible the NFL's worst team.

 

At this point, I think Bills fans need to just accept 2017 is going to be a lost season. No matter how good the defense plays, this offense is going to be horrific. The coaching staff is letting Taylor play his way off the roster. Same with offensive linemen like John Miller, who don't fit the zone blocking. They will almost certainly be drafting a pocket passer in the 2018 draft. LeSean McCoy is fantastic, but he likely won't be on this roster long-term. Neither will aging pieces like Ritchie Incognito or Eric Wood. The team is starting over completely on offense.

[hondo in seattle]

The Blitz has an article on the blocking scheme. I just might have to pay

[nedboy7]

Waaaa TT is messing up Denison' coaching

[simpleman]

It is about coaching. It is about the stupidity of fixing what isn't broken. Castillo is bad, Dennison is mediocre. An old Tolbert is no Gillislee, he is a backup talent useful for only specific situation and used sparingly, not as a change-up player We got rid of young talent and brought in mediocre and old. We trashed what little WR talent we had available for this year. I understand Woods was too rich, but we brought in no comparable replacements for the the talent we let go. We kept a ST coach from 3 coaches ago, but wouldn't keep Kromer. Management is ultimately at fault for not considering consistency when hiring coaches. We have a Tolbert as RB 2 and Ducasse because of bad coaches who are more interested in bringing in their buds, rather than building the best team built to win. And a head coach more interested in having "his guys" as coaches and players, rather than doing what is best for the Bills and getting the best talent available at the right places. You put together a team with the best chance of winning now, rather than caring who selected them. Unless of course, you are tanking for the draft future. And tanking will not work this year with the Colts, the 49ers, Jets, Browns and other really bad teams in the NFL this season.

Edited September 21, 2017 by simpleman

[Buffalo716]

We ran a lot of inside zone last year and we are flipping it and running a lot of outside zone this year.

 

It takes a lot more cohesion to run the outside zone frequently