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Comparing Starting Day Rosters

IgotBILLStopay

By IgotBILLStopay
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IgotBILLStopay Veteran

IgotBILLStopay

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Posted

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/9/6/16252418/buffalo-bills-2016-2017-roster-rex-ryan-doug-whaley-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott

 

Here is the writers' summary of the comparison of 2016 and 2017 starting day rosters:

 

QB: push

RB: worse

WR: worse

TE: push

OL: push

DL: push

LB: worse

DB: worse

K/P: better

 

"In re-tooling the roster from 2016 to 2017 the Bills improved one unit, weakened four units, and held serve in four more. While general manager Brandon Beane can talk about winning now and winning later it is hard to look at the roster and take his words seriously. In weakening the running back and wide receiver units, Beane has made Tyrod Taylor’s job that much harder. Depleting the defensive backs unit may not make a huge impact given the defense McDermott favors. The linebacker unit on the other hand figures to cause major issues on the defensive side of the ball. In Beane’s defense, it is difficult to completely overhaul a defense in just one offseason.

None of this is to suggest that Beane doesn’t have a plan or that he is sabotaging the Bills. The extra draft picks acquired in the Watkins and Darby trades, along with the extra 2018 first round pick added in the 2017 draft, have set up the Bills to improve the roster down the road."

 

Not a bad article - but a few things are missing in the analysis -

1. QB I think Peterman has the potential to be an upgrade over EJ, but let us leave it as a push for now.

2. Having Shady in there - strange to say RB is worse. The team think tank felt comfortable enough releasing J. Williams and to go with Banyard and Jones. Are Banyard and Jones behind Tolbert and DiMarco really worse than Gillislee behind Felton? I think not!

3. WR: Yes on paper Watkins >> Matthews, but that is assuming they both play the same number of games, no? Given the number of games Watkins suited for, I am not sure Matthews 2017 << Watkins 2016! And we knew Watkins was damaged at the start of last season! Also Jones cannot match Woods' production? Are you kidding me? I am going to bet (if there are no injury concerns) Jones has more than 51 rec for 613 yards. He will probably not block as well as Woods though. And Goodwin was the very definition of inconsistent. I am going to call this at least a push.

4. DL: So with Dareus and Lawson and playing a 4-3 instead of a 3-4, that is a push? C'mon! We are way better on the Defensive Line (and that is without even factoring in Yarbrough).

5. LB: Clearly the Brown combo couldnt contain Ajayi or Bell in a 3-4 last year. Notwithstanding that, we had no clue at the beginning of the season Zach Brown or Lorax would otherwise perform as well as they did. I feel more comfortable with Preston in a better scheme & Lorax - so I feel it is at least a wash.

6. DB: Here I do believe we got worse on paper. The jury is still out on how White + Gaines will replace Gilmore / Darby. I dont think we got worse on the safeties tho - what with Aaron Williams' injury history - it was always going to be shaky last year.

7. ST: Yes the kicker is better (Hauschka >> Carpenter), but the coordinator is the same and I did not see anything in the preseason to say the kickoff / punt teams are any better. I would rather call this a push!

8. OL / TE: I agree it is a push (though I believe we are not worse since we have Dawkins and Logan Thomas, who we didnt have last year).

 

So my summary:

QB: push

RB: push

WR: push

TE: push

OL: push

DL: Better

LB: push

DB: Worse

K/P: push

We appear to have an 8-8 roster which with a couple of breaks can go 10-6 and challenge for a playoff or with a couple of bad breaks go 6-10 and have a shot at a franchise QB! The extra draft picks are just the icing on the cake.

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MichFan RFA

MichFan

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Posted

Without addressing scheme this is a pointless exercise. I fully expect the defense to be better overall than last year, even if 2 out of 3 units are "worse" according to this. Sunday can't come fast enough.

Excellent point. Defense should be improved. Hard to get much worse.

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liverpoolkev Rookie

liverpoolkev

Posted
Posted

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/9/6/16252418/buffalo-bills-2016-2017-roster-rex-ryan-doug-whaley-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott

 

Here is the writers' summary of the comparison of 2016 and 2017 starting day rosters:

 

QB: push

RB: worse

WR: worse

TE: push

OL: push

DL: push

LB: worse

DB: worse

K/P: better

 

"In re-tooling the roster from 2016 to 2017 the Bills improved one unit, weakened four units, and held serve in four more. While general manager Brandon Beane can talk about winning now and winning later it is hard to look at the roster and take his words seriously. In weakening the running back and wide receiver units, Beane has made Tyrod Taylor’s job that much harder. Depleting the defensive backs unit may not make a huge impact given the defense McDermott favors. The linebacker unit on the other hand figures to cause major issues on the defensive side of the ball. In Beane’s defense, it is difficult to completely overhaul a defense in just one offseason.

None of this is to suggest that Beane doesn’t have a plan or that he is sabotaging the Bills. The extra draft picks acquired in the Watkins and Darby trades, along with the extra 2018 first round pick added in the 2017 draft, have set up the Bills to improve the roster down the road."

Not a bad article - but a few things are missing in the analysis -

1. QB I think Peterman has the potential to be an upgrade over EJ, but let us leave it as a push for now.

2. Having Shady in there - strange to say RB is worse. The team think tank felt comfortable enough releasing J. Williams and to go with Banyard and Jones. Are Banyard and Jones behind Tolbert and DiMarco really worse than Gillislee behind Felton? I think not!

3. WR: Yes on paper Watkins >> Matthews, but that is assuming they both play the same number of games, no? Given the number of games Watkins suited for, I am not sure Matthews 2017 << Watkins 2016! And we knew Watkins was damaged at the start of last season! Also Jones cannot match Woods' production? Are you kidding me? I am going to bet (if there are no injury concerns) Jones has more than 51 rec for 613 yards. He will probably not block as well as Woods though. And Goodwin was the very definition of inconsistent. I am going to call this at least a push.

4. DL: So with Dareus and Lawson and playing a 4-3 instead of a 3-4, that is a push? C'mon! We are way better on the Defensive Line (and that is without even factoring in Yarbrough).

5. LB: Clearly the Brown combo couldnt contain Ajayi or Bell in a 3-4 last year. Notwithstanding that, we had no clue at the beginning of the season Zach Brown or Lorax would otherwise perform as well as they did. I feel more comfortable with Preston in a better scheme & Lorax - so I feel it is at least a wash.

6. DB: Here I do believe we got worse on paper. The jury is still out on how White + Gaines will replace Gilmore / Darby. I dont think we got worse on the safeties tho - what with Aaron Williams' injury history - it was always going to be shaky last year.

7. ST: Yes the kicker is better (Hauschka >> Carpenter), but the coordinator is the same and I did not see anything in the preseason to say the kickoff / punt teams are any better. I would rather call this a push!

8. OL / TE: I agree it is a push (though I believe we are not worse since we have Dawkins and Logan Thomas, who we didnt have last year).

So my summary:

QB: push

RB: push

WR: push

TE: push

OL: push

DL: Better

LB: push

DB: Worse

K/P: push

We appear to have an 8-8 roster which with a couple of breaks can go 10-6 and challenge for a playoff or with a couple of bad breaks go 6-10 and have a shot at a franchise QB! The extra draft picks are just the icing on the cake.

The fans must agree unless someone buy up the tickets we will have our first opening day non sellout in 10 years . I guess we don't trust their process enough to sell out the stadium. I bet that get the owners attention

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Steptide All Pro

Steptide

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't necessarily think the wr group is worse. Why, because Watkins and woods are gone? Watkins was a non factor last year. Zay and matthews may be a better combo than Watkins and woods. Time will tell. This whole argument is dumb until the season is over

Edited by Steptide
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yungmack Veteran

yungmack

Posted
Posted

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/9/6/16252418/buffalo-bills-2016-2017-roster-rex-ryan-doug-whaley-brandon-beane-sean-mcdermott

 

Here is the writers' summary of the comparison of 2016 and 2017 starting day rosters:

 

QB: push

RB: worse

WR: worse

TE: push

OL: push

DL: push

LB: worse

DB: worse

K/P: better

 

"In re-tooling the roster from 2016 to 2017 the Bills improved one unit, weakened four units, and held serve in four more. While general manager Brandon Beane can talk about winning now and winning later it is hard to look at the roster and take his words seriously. In weakening the running back and wide receiver units, Beane has made Tyrod Taylor’s job that much harder. Depleting the defensive backs unit may not make a huge impact given the defense McDermott favors. The linebacker unit on the other hand figures to cause major issues on the defensive side of the ball. In Beane’s defense, it is difficult to completely overhaul a defense in just one offseason.

None of this is to suggest that Beane doesn’t have a plan or that he is sabotaging the Bills. The extra draft picks acquired in the Watkins and Darby trades, along with the extra 2018 first round pick added in the 2017 draft, have set up the Bills to improve the roster down the road."

Not a bad article - but a few things are missing in the analysis -

1. QB I think Peterman has the potential to be an upgrade over EJ, but let us leave it as a push for now.

2. Having Shady in there - strange to say RB is worse. The team think tank felt comfortable enough releasing J. Williams and to go with Banyard and Jones. Are Banyard and Jones behind Tolbert and DiMarco really worse than Gillislee behind Felton? I think not!

3. WR: Yes on paper Watkins >> Matthews, but that is assuming they both play the same number of games, no? Given the number of games Watkins suited for, I am not sure Matthews 2017 << Watkins 2016! And we knew Watkins was damaged at the start of last season! Also Jones cannot match Woods' production? Are you kidding me? I am going to bet (if there are no injury concerns) Jones has more than 51 rec for 613 yards. He will probably not block as well as Woods though. And Goodwin was the very definition of inconsistent. I am going to call this at least a push.

4. DL: So with Dareus and Lawson and playing a 4-3 instead of a 3-4, that is a push? C'mon! We are way better on the Defensive Line (and that is without even factoring in Yarbrough).

5. LB: Clearly the Brown combo couldnt contain Ajayi or Bell in a 3-4 last year. Notwithstanding that, we had no clue at the beginning of the season Zach Brown or Lorax would otherwise perform as well as they did. I feel more comfortable with Preston in a better scheme & Lorax - so I feel it is at least a wash.

6. DB: Here I do believe we got worse on paper. The jury is still out on how White + Gaines will replace Gilmore / Darby. I dont think we got worse on the safeties tho - what with Aaron Williams' injury history - it was always going to be shaky last year.

7. ST: Yes the kicker is better (Hauschka >> Carpenter), but the coordinator is the same and I did not see anything in the preseason to say the kickoff / punt teams are any better. I would rather call this a push!

8. OL / TE: I agree it is a push (though I believe we are not worse since we have Dawkins and Logan Thomas, who we didnt have last year).

So my summary:

QB: push

RB: push

WR: push

TE: push

OL: push

DL: Better

LB: push

DB: Worse

K/P: push

We appear to have an 8-8 roster which with a couple of breaks can go 10-6 and challenge for a playoff or with a couple of bad breaks go 6-10 and have a shot at a franchise QB! The extra draft picks are just the icing on the cake.

In response to your response:

 

#2 - Shady's a year older, the O scheme is different which APPARENTLY has turned the O line into a sieve. Should Shady go down for any length of time, I don't see how Junkyard and Tolbert can be regarded as anywhere near adequate replacements in the real universe;

 

#3 - We'll just have to disagree on Woods. As much as I would like Zay to succeed, he has appeared to be quite raw and erratic, a common thing with rooks. As to Woods' catches and yards, how much of that was the O scheme combined with Taylor's insufficiencies? Why would you expect Jones to do better if it's the same old TT chucking the ball? I'd rather have Goodwin than Holmes right now. And after you see Matthews play after play, game after game, I think you'll understand why Philly didn't mind trading him;

 

I think the original writer was too kind the O line. No way it's as good as is was last year, not at this time.

 

As to the D line, I was pretty happy with it until the FO started bringing in all these DEs and DTs "for a look." Somebody must be concerned;

 

So far, our secondary has looked a little slow, particularly side-to-side, and not at all "quick" in reacting. Too soon to decide if they've improved, stayed even or gone backwards.

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Marty McFly Veteran

Marty McFly

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Posted

Defens will be better due to the scheme change alone.

 

Offense will be worse due to the scheme change and losing watkins woods and goodwin.

When all three are healthy they are a solid unit.

 

I dont even know who our #3 wr is now. Im lookin at ZJones to step up and become our #1 target since hes the only WR that was practicing with tyrod all tc and ps. Should be good for his development. Clay will get a lot of targets this year too hes our leading reciever by numbers if you look at the stats

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TigerJ Veteran

TigerJ

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Posted

Such comparison's are very difficult to make because of several factors: change of scheme and scheme fit, the fact that some young players make significant improvements from one year to the next, injuries, and perhaps a few other factors as well. The receivers lost Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins, for instance. Well, Sammy only played part of the year, and his foot rendered him less effective than he could have been while he was in the lineup. Zay Jones could have a higher ceiling than Robert Woods, but as a rookie, it's hard to assess how quickly he can get through his learning curve. One would assume that Jordan Matthews is going to need some time to develop some chemistry with Tyrod, but it's hard to know how long it will take. Once that chemistry starts to build, it may be that a healthy Jordan Matthews is better than the hobbled Sammy the Bills had last season. I imagine that the departure of Mike Gillislee is the primary reason the running backs earned a downgrade, but when Gillislee arrived as a Bill, he was not highly regarded at all. He was, in fact, just another utility/fringe player, brought on board to fill a role. Can we be so sure that he is superior to Joe Banyard after Banyard's game versus Detroit? If you measure physical skill sets alone, the CBs Buffalo had a year ago are better, but with a different scheme, that may be irrelevant. Gaines, when healthy, is an excellent zone CB, and so, apparently is Tredavious White. It doesn't matter that they aren't quite as fast as Darby and Gilmore. What matters is that they have the football intelligence demanded by the zone scheme. They have enough athleticism.

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