Would you accept Colin Kaepernick as a Buffalo Bill?

[Boatdrinks]

He has a RIGHT to compete for a job in the NFL based on his talent and not be discriminated against for exercising his rights under the first amendment. I'm pretty sure that right is granted to him under the CBA and by the law in many states.Never mind. You missed the point.

You are mistaken. He has no right to an NFL job. They have the right to not hire him if they feel it is not in their best ineterest. Let's say I am out protesting the removal of a Confederate monument and my photo is in the paper with a confederate flag and a nazi symbol. Guess what? The company I work for could say hey we don't need you anymore. That's the way it is. Many employers have rules against using their name for any cause or making statements while at work. It's a job, and he's at work . You are wrong. It's not discrimination. It's bad publicity with a portion of the NFLs customers. They are a business not society.

Ah yes, let the people born into nothing with no support system and no education just "bootstrap" themselves out of poverty

 

Let me guess - you're a white baby boomer

You know what. My father was born into poverty and had nothing. He made something of himself. Did I benefit from that ? Yes. No different than the people you are describing. I'm not a boomer either. My race is irrelevant .

[bobobonators]

He has a RIGHT to compete for a job in the NFL based on his talent and not be discriminated against for exercising his rights under the first amendment. I'm pretty sure that right is granted to him under the CBA and by the law in many states.

I have a RIGHT to apply to Google. Google has a RIGHT to say no thanks to me as long as their decision isnt solely based on race or religion. The Bill of Rights doesnt apply in Kaeps case. You dont have the right to free speech while at work. Full stop.

 

If this was a 1st amendment issue Kaep would've sued the NFL a long time ago.

Edited August 28, 2017 by bobobonators

[Boatdrinks]

Do you cry into your beer and get a boner when the Bills trot out the amputee vets at every home game and play "God Bless the USA"?

That's a disgusting inference , but I appreciate the service of every veteran. They deserve our respect. You sound like a very angry person.

[SectionC3]

Well Spurna, you really should hang out on PP&P. I'm pretty sure CK claimed he was " protesting " for black people who were shot by Police and were not armed at the time. Although it's a complicated issue and I'm afraid he either didn't research the cases or have all the facts it's remains largely a false narrative and he's misguided. He also didn't claim to be " protesting" for all people shot in these circumstances, just those who were black. Research it and make up your own mind. As to your statement about poverty, I'd say it's generally a bad idea to have children if one cannot afford to take care of them. That is universal, doesn't matter what race you are. It's a shame that people are so irresponsible to bring children into the world when they cannot even support themselves. It's best to focus on self improvement through education, hard work etc and getting a job where you can support yourself. Then possibly think about children if one can afford such things. Children are a huge responsibility and they cost money. I don't feel one ounce of guilt if I go to Canalside and enjoy some beers and a Bills game . Maybe a dinner , whatever. America is a great place that affords us all a chance to work and afford things that we want. If we want more, we can work harder and get a higher paying job. That holds true for Colin Kaepernick or someone like me, or whoever. If anyone is ever in a situation where they are pulled over or confronted by law enforcement , they should do as exactly as instructed. It doesn't matter even if one didn't do anything wrong, it is always a potential life or death situation for the Officer and therefore for any of us. Some may think it's cool to resist or not cooperate but they are taking their life into their own hands because the Officer has to assume if you don't follow instructions and or make a sudden move that you are going to try to kill them. It's just how it has to be. It's no disrespect , but it's the only way to ensure everyone stays safe the vast majority of the time. It's" cool" in some segments of society to be against Police and that is a huge part of the problem.

Anyway, keep this forum for football and visit PP&P from time to time.

I don't know who he is. Quite possibly because he doesn't " protest" and therefore isn't crammed down my throat as some sort of idealist by the media that I expect to cover sporting events. If he did " protest" , I know I would feel the same " animus" toward him that I do toward the others. I don't care what race he is or what team he plays for.

Nate Boyer conceived of the taking of a knee in response to Kaep's act of sitting on the bench during the playing of the national anthem. That is, he sanctioned the act now in question. He also wrote this opinion piece in the army times:

 

http://www.armytimes.com/opinion/2016/08/30/an-open-letter-to-colin-kaepernick-from-a-green-beret-turned-long-snapper/

[Billsguy]

Perhaps. Maybe he should go elsewhere if he thinks it's so bad here, in a Country where he can make millions to play a game.

If you were paying attention (which obviously you were not) he was protesting injustice in America. His protest was meant to bring attention to this injustice. This protest is about as American as you can get. It's called freedom of speech. It is patently un-American to deny someone a freedom granted by the Bill of Rights.

 

It is a patriotic thing to want to improve the country and remove injustice where it exists. The Founding Fathers of our country were patriots because they fought against the injustices imposed on them by the King of England. If you want to be upset about something maybe you should consider the widespread ignorance and hatred in the country.

 

On the football side, he is better than many of the QB's in the league who are on rosters already, including the Bills.

[Spurna]

You know what. My father was born into poverty and had nothing. He made something of himself. Did I benefit from that ? Yes. No different than the people you are describing. .

 

You just said that people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have children, but now you're implying that those same people possess the same "benefits" that you did, with regards to generational wealth

 

How do you "make something of yourself" when there's no jobs? It's almost like certain communities have to turn to crime to survive

 

How do we solve that problem? Do you care?

[Boatdrinks]

Nate Boyer conceived of the taking of a knee in response to Kaep's act of sitting on the bench during the playing of the national anthem. That is, he sanctioned the act now in question. He also wrote this opinion piece in the army times:http://www.armytimes.com/opinion/2016/08/30/an-open-letter-to-colin-kaepernick-from-a-green-beret-turned-long-snapper/

I don't agree with Nate Boyer. I don't care if he came up with the idea if he isn't doing it himself. That's about it.

If you were paying attention (which obviously you were not) he was protesting injustice in America. His protest was meant to bring attention to this injustice. This protest is about as American as you can get. It's called freedom of speech. It is patently un-American to deny someone a freedom granted by the Bill of Rights.

 

It is a patriotic thing to want to improve the country and remove injustice where it exists. The Founding Fathers of our country were patriots because they fought against the injustices imposed on them by the King of England. If you want to be upset about something maybe you should consider the widespread ignorance and hatred in the country.

 

On the football side, he is better than many of the QB's in the league who are on rosters already, including the Bills.

I was paying attention. Not only was he mostly wrong about the things he was " protesting" , he displayed disgusting opinions about Police and even promoted Fidel Castro. He had many other ways to make his misguided " point" than to not honor America. To honor Her is not to say everything here is perfect all the time. However the flag and our anthem are worth of our respect while it's being played. I don't know how that could be any more clear.

[SectionC3]

I don't agree with Nate Boyer. I don't care if he came up with the idea if he isn't doing it himself. That's about it.

That's fine. I disagree with you, but we're both entitled to an opinion on the matter.

 

Boyer is relevant because, last I checked, there aren't any t-shirts floating around containing an image of Boyer and a target on the image. The fact that Kaep is perceived so much differently from Boyer . . . I'll leave it to others to decide what that means. Maybe we can protest Chris Long the next time the eagles play here. We're all entitled to an opinion.

I don't agree with Nate Boyer. I don't care if he came up with the idea if he isn't doing it himself. That's about it.

 

I was paying attention. Not only was he mostly wrong about the things he was " protesting" , he displayed disgusting opinions about Police and even promoted Fidel Castro. He had many other ways to make his misguided " point" than to not honor America. To honor Her is not to say everything here is perfect all the time. However the flag and our anthem are worth of our respect while it's being played. I don't know how that could be any more clear.

Not to belabor the point, but the flag can be respected in different ways. Apparently Boyer and Kaepernick think one way to do so is to kneel, rather than to sit, during the playing of the national anthem. We're all entitled to an opinion on the matter.

 

For what it's worth, all of this discussion is relevant to the question posed in this thread with respect to the acceptance of Kaepernick as a Bill. For some the issues make it impossible to accept him, for others the issues are secondary to the question of football skill (or lack thereof). It is an interesting discussion.

Edited August 28, 2017 by SectionC3

[Boatdrinks]

You just said that people who can't afford to have children shouldn't have children, but now you're implying that those same people possess the same "benefits" that you did, with regards to generational wealth

 

How do you "make something of yourself" when there's no jobs? It's almost like certain communities have to turn to crime to survive

 

How do we solve that problem? Do you care?

You are not understanding what I said. My family is not what I would consider wealthy. I said the my father was once like those you described. It has to start somewhere. He bettered himself and then had a family and continued to do so afterward. That in turn benefitted me to some degree. Do you get it?

Poverty is not a problem that can be solved by others alone. I had a guy work for me once that was from a war torn Country. He wasn't white. He was A very hard worker, came here with literally nothing. Another guy understood enough of his native language to communicate with him. He said that in his society if you don't work hard you are an embarrassment to your family and that is the worst imaginable thing. The point is, many of these problems are generational and cultural. Not really for others to solve. No one has to turn to crime to survive. There are jobs. Some people feel that some jobs are too god for them. Others want to work. That guy was a great example , poorer than poor. I see it in other countries I visit too. People came over with nothing. Some are poor, and others said heck with that I'll open a store. Just a different mentality. I don't really care all that much because there is nothing anyone can do to help someone who won't help themselves. Some will turn to crime and kill people in their way because they have zero respect for anyone. After awhile you realize that there are things that just can't be changed. You have a lot to learn but you seem smarter than the positions you are taking.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Boatdrinks

[KD in CA]

If you were paying attention (which obviously you were not) he was protesting injustice in America. His protest was meant to bring attention to this injustice. This protest is about as American as you can get. It's called freedom of speech. It is patently un-American to deny someone a freedom granted by the Bill of Rights.

 

It is a patriotic thing to want to improve the country and remove injustice where it exists. The Founding Fathers of our country were patriots because they fought against the injustices imposed on them by the King of England. If you want to be upset about something maybe you should consider the widespread ignorance and hatred in the country.

 

On the football side, he is better than many of the QB's in the league who are on rosters already, including the Bills.

 

What freedoms are being denied Kaepernick?

[Boatdrinks]

That's fine. I disagree with you, but we're both entitled to an opinion on the matter.

 

Boyer is relevant because, last I checked, there aren't any t-shirts floating around containing an image of Boyer and a target on the image. The fact that Kaep is perceived so much differently from Boyer . . . I'll leave it to others to decide what that means. Maybe we can protest Chris Long the next time the eagles play here. We're all entitled to an opinion.

 

 

Agreed C3 . My thought on Boyer is there are no shirts etc because few know about it. That can largely be attributed to the media. I've never heard that story or seen him mentioned on networks that have beaten the CK drum to death. Perhaps he doesn't fit their narrative. Maybe it's that he only thought of it and told others yet won't do it himself. I have no idea about Chris Long either, and I've never seen him ineterviewed or mentioned when the protests are inevitably pointed out to us.

What freedoms are being denied Kaepernick?

 

The freedom to do as he wants on company time, and not have any consequences if some of that company's customers don't care for his actions?

[Putin]

 

I'm sure the Trump circlejerk forum will happily explain why a picture depicting a black man with a crosshair across his chest is not racist

Lol what a race baiting troll

[mannc]

I have a RIGHT to apply to Google. Google has a RIGHT to say no thanks to me as long as their decision isnt solely based on race or religion. The Bill of Rights doesnt apply in Kaeps case. You dont have the right to free speech while at work. Full stop.

 

If this was a 1st amendment issue Kaep would've sued the NFL a long time ago.

Let's just say your understanding of labor and employment laws are overly simplistic, and mistaken. Do you believe the 49ers had the right to cut Kaepernick last year for his actions? Or do you think he would have been protected from such an action under the CBA or California law?

 

But forget about what's legal: Do you think it's RIGHT for teams to refuse to hire Kaepernick because of his protest against what he perceives to be police mistreatment of African-Americans?

[Boatdrinks]

Let's just say your understanding of labor and employment laws are overly simplistic, and mistaken. Do you believe the 49ers had the right to cut Kaepernick last year for his actions? Or do you think he would have been protected from such an action under the CBA or California law?

But forget about what's legal: Do you think it's RIGHT for teams to refuse to hire Kaepernick because of his protest against what he perceives to be police mistreatment of African-Americans?

I know you asked a different poster but I will chime in forgive me if you will. I don't know California Law or the CBA ins and outs. I did see it explained on a news network that I consider a reliable source that the NFL could have a policy against such demonstrations but they do not. They are within their rights to do so. I have no idea if they had the right to cut him and I doubt they would do that even if they had that right.

Away from the legal minutiae, I don't believe that teams are refusing to hire CK because of his protest. I believe it is exactly along the lines of what McCoy stated: there would be a distraction and media circus element to it that his talent level does not justify in the eyes of these businesses . ( NFL teams) . As for if it is right, yes I am fine with it if that is what they decide. They are companies, not people. They exist to make money, not to afford CK or anyone else a conduit to express their personal opinions on things other than football.

[mannc]

I know you asked a different poster but I will chime in forgive me if you will. I don't know California Law or the CBA ins and outs. I did see it explained on a news network that I consider a reliable source that the NFL could have a policy against such demonstrations but they do not. They are within their rights to do so. I have no idea if they had the right to cut him and I doubt they would do that even if they had that right.

Away from the legal minutiae, I don't believe that teams are refusing to hire CK because of his protest. I believe it is exactly along the lines of what McCoy stated: there would be a distraction and media circus element to it that his talent level does not justify in the eyes of these businesses . ( NFL teams) . As for if it is right, yes I am fine with it if that is what they decide. They are companies, not people. They exist to make money, not to afford CK or anyone else a conduit to express their personal opinions on things other than football.

I disagree with a few things here, but it is certainly a reasonable position. I think you are right about why he hasn't been signed and I also think it's a shame. I think teams that won't sign him for that reason are cowards and I think their fears are misguided. Edited August 28, 2017 by mannc

[Putin]

Let's just say your understanding of labor and employment laws are overly simplistic, and mistaken. Do you believe the 49ers had the right to cut Kaepernick last year for his actions? Or do you think he would have been protected from such an action under the CBA or California law?

But forget about what's legal: Do you think it's RIGHT for teams to refuse to hire Kaepernick because of his protest against what he perceives to be police mistreatment of African-Americans?

Didn't Kaepernick opt out of his contract?

[mannc]

Didn't Kaepernick opt out of his contract?

Yes, but so what?

[Boatdrinks]

I disagree with a few things here, but it is certainly a reasonable position. I think you are right about why he hasn't been signed and I also think it's a shame. I think teams that won't sign him for that reason are cowards and I think their fears are misguided.

I don't know that they are cowards. They just aren't in the business of distractions. Many companies back down to boycotts from gay rights groups etc. I suppose all business would be considered cowards to some degree as they are averse to controversy of any kind.

There are players on NFL teams that have been arrested for assaulting women among other things.At some level the talent will outweigh the negative as questionable as that seems . American are forgiving of a lot of things, but not disrespect ( perceived or real) to veterans, the flag, even law enforcement .fwiw , I would not be ok with Joe Mixon on the Bills . I would be ok with Michael Vick though and I like dogs. Not sure if that makes any sense but it's what I feel.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Boatdrinks

[Putin]

Yes, but so what?

So it was his decision to leave the team right?

[Boatdrinks]

So it was his decision to leave the team right?

As far as I know, this is correct. He could have stayed in SF and kept his job.

[mannc]

So it was his decision to leave the team right?

Yes, and it appears to have been a miscalculation. Again, so what?

[judman]

A lot of ridiculousness here, that's for sure!

 

If the THOUGHT of this man playing for the Bills brings out such divisions amongst the fans, I cannot imagine what it would be like to work with him, or to be his boss.

 

And to be clear, we're all rooting for the same team here. We need a qb, not a wedge.

[Putin]

As far as I know, this is correct. He could have stayed in SF and kept his job.

Thank you

[PNW_Bills_Fan]

I have not read anything in this thread. I didn't want to take the time to read 8 pages. My take is this...

 

1. Kap is at best a backup QB who has a hard time reading D's

2. He is good enough to play.

3. I agree with Shady that the circus doesn't help his chances landing on a team

4. I don't think the kneeling for the national anthem is what is holding him back from getting a gig

5. I don't think they should sign him

6. I won't care if they do... he is a back up and nothing else

[Putin]

Yes, and it appears to have been a miscalculation. Again, so what?

So what ? So what ? He's a grown ars man who made a decision to quit his job , are you saying he bears no responsibility for being unemployed???

[Utah John]

The only important question is, can he help the team.

 

Yes, certainly he can. He can play better than any of the other available options. He's a running QB like TT so the offensive sets and game plans would work either way.

 

Yes, sign him.

[Putin]

The only important question is, can he help the team.

 

Yes, certainly he can. He can play better than any of the other available options. He's a running QB like TT so the offensive sets and game plans would work either way.

 

Yes, sign him.

I guess you didn't get the memo from Mcbean ?

[#34fan]

If Kaep is smart, he'll stay faaaaaar away from OBD... There's ZERO here for a guy like him... I wish him the best, but it wouldn't be a good situation for either party.

Edited August 28, 2017 by #34fan

[SoulMan]

Don't want him because he disrespected the flag. Could care less about race..treat everybody equal.

[Best Player Available]

I HAVE COME FROM THE FUTURE

 

Here's a pic I took while walking by a tailgate at the home opener:

 

You're a sick MOFO. I hope this gets you banned.

[Spurna]

You are not understanding what I said. My family is not what I would consider wealthy. I said the my father was once like those you described. It has to start somewhere. He bettered himself and then had a family and continued to do so afterward. That in turn benefitted me to some degree. Do you get it?

Poverty is not a problem that can be solved by others alone. I had a guy work for me once that was from a war torn Country. He wasn't white. He was A very hard worker, came here with literally nothing. Another guy understood enough of his native language to communicate with him. He said that in his society if you don't work hard you are an embarrassment to your family and that is the worst imaginable thing. The point is, many of these problems are generational and cultural. Not really for others to solve. No one has to turn to crime to survive. There are jobs. Some people feel that some jobs are too god for them. Others want to work. That guy was a great example , poorer than poor. I see it in other countries I visit too. People came over with nothing. Some are poor, and others said heck with that I'll open a store. Just a different mentality. I don't really care all that much because there is nothing anyone can do to help someone who won't help themselves. Some will turn to crime and kill people in their way because they have zero respect for anyone. After awhile you realize that there are things that just can't be changed. You have a lot to learn but you seem smarter than the positions you are taking.

Why didn't you just type "blacks are lazy" since that's what your ramblings boil down to

 

"No one has to turn to crime to survive" - yeah sure buddy, why do people with no job prospects and unreliable transportation end up selling drugs to make money? And why do our politicians make money off throwing them in jail for marijuana?

 

It's almost like they're...at a disadvantage

Edited August 28, 2017 by Spurna

[Nuncha]

No - there are other options.

 

I woud have 3 rookies on the roster before adding Craperneck. We aren't winning many games this season anyway so who cares.

[Doc Brown]

No. Shady was 100% correct and I made the point well before he did. If a guy is going to carry a certain baggage he better be worth it and Kaepernick barely qualifies as a backup.

[jester43]

i'd buy his jersey tomorrow if the Bills showed some balls and signed him.

[Nervous Guy]

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