mjt328 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I believe that coaching/front office style is very overrated. There are many approaches that can work... IF they are done correctly. Marv Levy was a great coach. But he was a terrible GM because he sucked at drafting, and he sucked at adding free agents. It's that simple. It had nothing to do with his personality, or his desire to add high-character players. He just did a poor job at giving the Bills a talented team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Terrell Owens was far more high-profile than Boldin, who had no other offers. Was Owens signed after April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Umm, no, we didn't. There were multiple factors playing into the Sammy decision. That fact that the Bills were pretty widely applauded for these trades should at least give you pause that Beane isn't the rube you apparently think he is. Outside of the Buffalo fans/media, I haven't seen anyone applauding the Sammy Watkins trade. Most are questioning why we let a young talent go for such a low pick. Many people have been screaming for us to "tank" for a quarterback for years. So they think would be a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Just waiting for Mcdermott's "Winning is hard in the NFL" presser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I believe that coaching/front office style is very overrated. There are many approaches that can work... IF they are done correctly. Marv Levy was a great coach. But he was a terrible GM because he sucked at drafting, and he sucked at adding free agents. It's that simple. It had nothing to do with his personality, or his desire to add high-character players. He just did a poor job at giving the Bills a talented team. This is a great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 A lot of Bills fans will tolerate everything until it's 100% obvious that specific Coach or GM is awful. Rex Ryan is a prime example. People blamed Mario for Rexs ****ty defense, claimed Schwartzs defense wasn't all that good and STILL wanted the two morons(Rex and Rob) back up until the Miami fiasco in week 16. I told people Rex was deemed to failure before he got the job. Said after 8 games he should be done and wanted to fire him after 1 year. I am not a serial defender of Bills coaches. I judge by what they do. I give McDermott and Beane a chance to show me what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Who cares...when was the last time our coach had a hot wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 All of those are assumptions the OP made -- not proven facts. This regime has consistently stated the Bills will build through the draft -- as any sound organization should. We don't know yet what that means when their drafted players come up for their 2nd and 3rd deals. It's premature to draw conclusions. You could've argued this after the 1st year of Jauron too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 ...this is pretty pathetically laughable.....Levy and Jauron got hired because they gave Ralph AARP discounts......the game had LONG passed them by, but served as RW's security blanket after the Donohole debacle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 I don't think situation compares all that much with any of the previous regimes even if the results end up being similar. The reason for this is simple: the head coach hired the GM. This is a new-ish trend in the NFL, and the Bills are at the forefront of it (I'm excluding Bill Parcells and his disciples here). If you're going to compare the Bills with other organizations, look to teams like SF, KC, and (less recently) Seattle -- places where the coach runs the show and not the GM. For the first time in modern Bills' history, we have a situation where the coach is truly in charge. The previous two Bills coaches weren't in charge but wanted to be, and the results in terms of how people worked together were ugly. I have no idea whether this approach will work. Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick are both phenomenal at what they do, although they go about it differently. Same goes for Parcells and Coughlin (like Belichick, a grad of Parcells University). I have little expectation that McDermott will measure up to these guys, but one never knows. In any event, comparing them to Levy/Jauron or Donohoe/Williams seems to be missing the bigger picture. Again, the results may end up being the same, but it's a very different organizational structure than what we as Bills fans are used to. We'll have to disagree on this McDermott/Beane dynamic being any kind of difference. Marv wanted to be the HC......Ralph said no.......but how about being the GM? Marv didn't really want to be a GM but agreed to the role.....but the choice for coach was easy.......he and Bill Polian had a mutual man-crush on Dick Jauron. Basically they both saw Marv in Jauron and loved it for their own selfish reasons. Two peas in a pod...........never have a coach/GM duo matched up like Jauron/Levy..........much like the Beane/McDermott love affair but probably even more in sync. The GM duties were essentially split between Marv(and later Russ) and Modrak(who wanted to stay in Jacksonville year round). And that's how Dick Jauron came to run the Bills football ops for almost 4 years. Modrak put the board together.......Jauron picked who he wanted.......if you don't believe me, ask Buddy Nix......who hurled Jauron head-first under the tandem for the Maybin selection. Not exactly sure how much MORE power you expect McDermott to have? Putting aside the structure, isn't one of the similarities the notion that star players are expendable, culture trumps talent, and holes should be plugged through the draft? I thought that was one of the premises. Exactly. People are focusing on things like the ages of the men..........as if Jauron was destined to fail because he was in his 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 We'll have to disagree on this McDermott/Beane dynamic being any kind of difference. Marv wanted to be the HC......Ralph said no.......but how about being the GM? Marv didn't really want to be a GM but agreed to the role.....but the choice for coach was easy.......he and Bill Polian had a mutual man-crush on Dick Jauron. Basically they both saw Marv in Jauron and loved it for their own selfish reasons. Two peas in a pod...........never have a coach/GM duo matched up like Jauron/Levy..........much like the Beane/McDermott love affair but probably even more in sync. The GM duties were essentially split between Marv(and later Russ) and Modrak(who wanted to stay in Jacksonville year round). And that's how Dick Jauron came to run the Bills football ops for almost 4 years. Modrak put the board together.......Jauron picked who he wanted.......if you don't believe me, ask Buddy Nix......who hurled Jauron head-first under the tandem for the Maybin selection. Not exactly sure how much MORE power you expect McDermott to have? Exactly. People are focusing on things like the ages of the men..........as if Jauron was destined to fail because he was in his 50's. I think that structurally, coaches and GMs are incentivized very differently. Yes, they're close, but I guarantee you that McDermott is in the driver's seat. It's not like I don't think the Watkins trade was bad, by the way. I just think you're measuring them against the wrong teams. Measure them against current crews in which the HC drives the show. They may still fare poorly, but those are better benchmarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 We'll have to disagree on this McDermott/Beane dynamic being any kind of difference. Marv wanted to be the HC......Ralph said no.......but how about being the GM? Marv didn't really want to be a GM but agreed to the role.....but the choice for coach was easy.......he and Bill Polian had a mutual man-crush on Dick Jauron. Basically they both saw Marv in Jauron and loved it for their own selfish reasons. Two peas in a pod...........never have a coach/GM duo matched up like Jauron/Levy..........much like the Beane/McDermott love affair but probably even more in sync. The GM duties were essentially split between Marv(and later Russ) and Modrak(who wanted to stay in Jacksonville year round). And that's how Dick Jauron came to run the Bills football ops for almost 4 years. Modrak put the board together.......Jauron picked who he wanted.......if you don't believe me, ask Buddy Nix......who hurled Jauron head-first under the tandem for the Maybin selection. Not exactly sure how much MORE power you expect McDermott to have? Exactly. People are focusing on things like the ages of the men..........as if Jauron was destined to fail because he was in his 50's. ...stretch as you want BUT STILL NO COMPARISON........I'm thinking you should slot Donohole/Greggy combo into #2 so Beane/McD can further sink to #3.........I need to make a popcorn run...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Was Owens signed after April? March, but so what? And Boldin isn't a high profile free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 I think that structurally, coaches and GMs are incentivized very differently. Yes, they're close, but I guarantee you that McDermott is in the driver's seat. It's not like I don't think the Watkins trade was bad, by the way. I just think you're measuring them against the wrong teams. Measure them against current crews in which the HC drives the show. They may still fare poorly, but those are better benchmarks. Are you not in the group of people that thinks that the Bills approach to this season seems to have been altered by the arrival of Beane? Seems like trading Sammy was HIS idea. Wasn't it Sal Capaccio who said that McDermott sounded like someone just shot his puppy when talking about the Sammy trade? I think these guys work hand in hand.....not McDermott dictating terms........and that means sometimes McDermott will do what Beane wants. In any healthy business relationship you have to compromise and pick your battles....but especially in one as tight as McDermott/Beane.......they have been tight socially/family-wise for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Are you not in the group of people that thinks that the Bills approach to this season seems to have been altered by the arrival of Beane? Seems like trading Sammy was HIS idea. Wasn't it Sal Capaccio who said that McDermott sounded like someone just shot his puppy when talking about the Sammy trade? I think these guys work hand in hand.....not McDermott dictating terms........and that means sometimes McDermott will do what Beane wants. In any healthy business relationship you have to compromise and pick your battles....but especially in one as tight as McDermott/Beane.......they have been tight socially/family-wise for years. Agreed. I think the (over)simplest way to put it would be to say Beane does what's best for the long term, and McDermott does what's best right now. They may not always be on the same page, but at least they're in the same book and chapter. Beane will win some, and McD will win some. Ultimately, it's still Pegula making the call. Whatever that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Are you not in the group of people that thinks that the Bills approach to this season seems to have been altered by the arrival of Beane? Seems like trading Sammy was HIS idea. Wasn't it Sal Capaccio who said that McDermott sounded like someone just shot his puppy when talking about the Sammy trade? I think these guys work hand in hand.....not McDermott dictating terms........and that means sometimes McDermott will do what Beane wants. In any healthy business relationship you have to compromise and pick your battles....but especially in one as tight as McDermott/Beane.......they have been tight socially/family-wise for years. Which is exactly unlike Levy Jauron, because I can't recall an instance when Levy pulled a move that Jauron didn't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Agreed. I think the (over)simplest way to put it would be to say Beane does what's best for the long term, and McDermott does what's best right now. They may not always be on the same page, but at least they're in the same book and chapter. Beane will win some, and McD will win some. Ultimately, it's still Pegula making the call. Whatever that's worth. Precisely! And I actually think Pegula was the deciding vote in this case. If it were between just McDermott and Beane I think maybe they sit on this idea and it goes away. Pegula was very indulgent with Rex and I think he indulged Beanes vision and conviction on this and McDermott being a "one vision" guy wasn't going to draw a line over this. If it weren't Beane's idea alone I doubt he waits to spring it on McDermott the way he did........sounds like he didn't want him thinking it over too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 March, but so what? And Boldin isn't a high profile free agent. I wouldn't ask the question if it was a so what? When have the Bills pursued or signed high profile FAs after April in Wilson's ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 I wouldn't ask the question if it was a so what? When have the Bills pursued or signed high profile FAs after April in Wilson's ownership. Lawyer Malloy - it's in the first page of this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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