DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 ....understand what your are saying bud....big difference between being a four year understudy versus two years of "live ammo"......BUT....those four years as an understudy certainly count for something as far as realizing the speed of the game at this level versus collegiate ball......so he has had six years to experience the speed at this level....how does a guy like Aaron Rodgers sit for six years as an understudy and step in as a starter reasonably acclimated to the speed?....in my view, it's called "gray matter".....either you have IT or you do not...retraining the brain to process the field quicker is not something I see as doable.....sure would hope TT proves me wrong.......inability to process the field as well as ZERO confidence led to EJ's downfall......as it has with tons of others..... I see where your coming from. I wasn't trying to defend his tenure to make it sound like an advantage or disadvantage, chances are he doesn't improve drastically and will serve as he was signed for, just a gap. my deal was how much more can you gain or lose to gain based on on field experience? I answered my question using AR as an example of someone sitting, just as you had and read he came out of the gate guns blazing throwing for more than 4,000 yds and 28 tds, that's franchise. People say 7 seven years because he's entering his 7th season in the NFL. You can't just ignore his first 4 years in the league when he was being coached up and developed. Crazy how people use this twisted logic. I guess it's easier to believe a player will improve after 2 years rather than 6. I never said he couldn't improve over the course of those years but did question on field experience vs the sideline. in his case it doesn't seem that time on the sideline really benefited his game much and likely on field experience may not as well? just hope he can fill the gap somewhat productively until the position is filled on what all want to believe, is the next franchise QB...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 why do folks say "six years or seven years"? he has only been on the field two therefore he is technically in his "third year"... sorry, I don't buy standing on the sidelines as any significant experience as a starting QB. He's had 6 years of camp, film, NFL practices etc.... It's not technically his 3rd. Yes on field experience counts the most but he wasn't a fresh out of college rookie in 2015...he should be ahead of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 As usual both sides have a point. Yes Tyrod was able to develop some skills in his first few years. He presumably worked on his mechanics and arm strength, became more accurate than he was in college, learned about NFL playbooks. But no way did he ever get a taste of real NFL game speed. Playing against the scout defense in practice doesn't prepare you for that at all. I don't think skills like pocket presence, anticipatory throwing, and quick decision making can be simulated all that well in practice. 2 years of real on-field experience may help him moving into his 3rd. Or not. But don't pretend like you know he's hit his ceiling. The truth is somewhere in the middle. He's not a real 3rd year starter but he's not a real 7 year veteran either. After this year there won't be any more excuses. 3 years of on-field experience is enough time to show what you got. I do believe he's at or very close to his ceiling but it's not something I preach as though it's written in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 He's had 6 years of camp, film, NFL practices etc.... It's not technically his 3rd. Yes on field experience counts the most but he wasn't a fresh out of college rookie in 2015...he should be ahead of that. right on, six years of camp, etc facing his third year as a starter, on the field... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I heard Jimbo on NFLR today saying how his first couple years as a Gambler helped him learn the passing game. He was on the field throwing 40-50 passes a game, and it helped develop his understanding. It made me think, years or number of games starting is one factor, number of passing attempts and learning from those attempts is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 why do folks say "six years or seven years"? he has only been on the field two therefore he is technically in his "third year"... sorry, I don't buy standing on the sidelines as any significant experience as a starting QB. Yet, you hear the mantra of letting a QB sit and develop before being thrown to the wolves. Fact of the matter is, the guy sat for the better part of four years, showed some glimpses his first year starting but was stagnant in his second... You have to take into account total time in the league in terms of the light going on or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 He's had 6 years of camp, film, NFL practices etc.... It's not technically his 3rd. Yes on field experience counts the most but he wasn't a fresh out of college rookie in 2015...he should be ahead of that. Yup and 260 pass attempts in 6 preaseasons Practiced for and suited up for 8 playoff games, including 1 Super Bowl 6 years of OTAs, camps, reading playbooks, meetings, film, running scout teams Either suited up as backup or played in 94 regular season, 21 preseason and 8 playoff games and people want to say but but but he's really only going into his 3rd year. No! Gimme a break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Yup and 260 pass attempts in 6 preaseasons Practiced for and suited up for 8 playoff games, including 1 Super Bowl 6 years of OTAs, camps, reading playbooks, meetings, film, running scout teams Either suited up as backup or played in 94 regular season, 21 preseason and 8 playoff games and people want to say but but but he's really only going into his 3rd year. No! Gimme a break It's not that he's only going into his 3rd year. It's that he's going into his 3rd year as a starter. No, you don't look at him in comparison with other 3rd year starters like Mariota and Winston. He clearly has more NFL experience. BUT You also don't look at him in comparison with any 7th year starters drafted in the same draft like Newton. He clearly has less NFL experience. It's aggravating that people don't just talk about that reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I heard Jimbo on NFLR today saying how his first couple years as a Gambler helped him learn the passing game. He was on the field throwing 40-50 passes a game, and it helped develop his understanding. It made me think, years or number of games starting is one factor, number of passing attempts and learning from those attempts is another. There is much merit to this in all situations with every player.. IF you don't give a player enough reps per game? they will not catch up with the speed of the game.. This is every position in my opinion. Back to QB position I think teams spend to much time worried about how many passes a QB makes per game instead of just letting him learn the game. This year, They need to figure out the QB position fast.. I believe Taylor right now IS the starting QB.. But this year.. they need to let Taylor throw the ball.. and take advantage of his speed When the situation arrives. Here is the problem though.. and I hope this is a big red flag for the coaching staff this year... 1-6 when Taylor threw the ball 30 times or more and the one win was against NE Patriots without Brady.. Put out Peterman This preseason and let him WING IT! 30-35 throws.. See how he does.. Forget who is out there and who is defending.. its not about that.. its about reps and speed of game. I am actually stoked for this preseason... I always am with a new QB because this is fact folks.. This fact is undeniable... No one knows how good a QB is until they hit the field. the NFL field. thoughts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 It's not that he's only going into his 3rd year. It's that he's going into his 3rd year as a starter. No, you don't look at him in comparison with other 3rd year starters like Mariota and Winston. He clearly has more NFL experience. BUT You also don't look at him in comparison with any 7th year starters drafted in the same draft like Newton. He clearly has less NFL experience. It's aggravating that people don't just talk about that reality. Nobody is looking at him as a 7 year starter. We are looking at him as a 6 year veteran in the league because that's exactly what he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 He's had 6 years of camp, film, NFL practices etc.... It's not technically his 3rd. Yes on field experience counts the most but he wasn't a fresh out of college rookie in 2015...he should be ahead of that. and he is...... Its a unique situation.....I feel both sides are right on this issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) Nobody is looking at him as a 7 year starter. We are looking at him as a 6 year veteran in the league because that's exactly what he is.That's a bingo! It's simply cognitive thought. No one is acting like TT is a seven year veteran starter. Instead, there are more people defending his starting experience, than there are acting like he's a seven years worth of playing time vet. Edited May 6, 2017 by BillsFan17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Cardale as Starter. Tyrod as Backup. Peterman at third string. Ideally, that's how I'd like preseason to shake out... I've said it before, and I'll say it again... If Jones starts at least 10 games this season we make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Cardale as Starter. Tyrod as Backup. Peterman at third string. Ideally, that's how I'd like preseason to shake out... I've said it before, and I'll say it again... If Jones starts at least 10 games this season we make the playoffs. Or....get a top five pick and hope for his replacement. But probably one or the other. I love his physical talent, but beyond that, who knows? Not me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Cardale as Starter. Tyrod as Backup. Peterman at third string. Ideally, that's how I'd like preseason to shake out... I've said it before, and I'll say it again... If Jones starts at least 10 games this season we make the playoffs. What makes you say that? I haven't really seen anything yet from Cardale in college or the NFL that makes me believe that he'd be a good NFL starter, let alone get the Bills to the playoffs this season. He has some potential, but has a very long way to go before I'd even think of starting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I actually am very much hoping C. Jones comes in and lights it up in camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 https://mobile.twitter.com/BlackBearsFB/status/860464101910233088 Bills invite QB Dan Collins to rookie mini camp. I'm guessing he's just an arm for rookie camp. I don't see him supplanting Cardale, Peterman or Yates. I guess he could possibly replace Woodrum, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 What makes you say that? I haven't really seen anything yet from Cardale in college or the NFL that makes me believe that he'd be a good NFL starter, let alone get the Bills to the playoffs this season. He has some potential, but has a very long way to go before I'd even think of starting him. Cardale is a better passer... Stronger arm... Quicker release.... Better throwing mechanics.... All Cardale has to do is find a WR and/or TE he's comfortable with, and he'll shine... More, and more I feel like TT's days as a bill are numbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 What makes you say that? I haven't really seen anything yet from Cardale in college or the NFL that makes me believe that he'd be a good NFL starter, let alone get the Bills to the playoffs this season. He has some potential, but has a very long way to go before I'd even think of starting him. Only because I'm curious, who do you do scouting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Cardale is a better passer... Stronger arm... Quicker release.... Better throwing mechanics.... All Cardale has to do is find a WR and/or TE he's comfortable with, and he'll shine... More, and more I feel like TT's days as a bill are numbered. It takes more than being comfortable. It takes understanding what he sees on the field where he severely lacks. If Western Kentucky can confuse him...an NFL defense will make his head spin. I feel Yates and Peterman means the end of Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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