Marshall Faulk traded to Rams for 2nd & 5th.

[Mark Vader]

Trade McCoy?

 

Ummm..........NO!

[Cash]

Was it a dumb trade? Faulk's contract status with Indy was a real issue in early 1999 (when the trade went down), and Indy drafted Edgerrin James that year to replace him. James had 12,246 rushing yards lifetime, and Faulk had 12,279. (Faulk played one more season than James.) Both were great. I'm not sure who was better.

 

With that second round pick (Indy didn't have one that year), they drafted Mike Peterson, who had a really good 14 year career. The fifth ended up being Brad Scioli, who had six solid seasons for Indy.

 

Polian was offered a first (#24) by Jimmy Johnson at Miami, but Polian refused to trade Faul inside the conference (the Pats wanted him too).

 

Fair argument, but I respectfully disagree. First, Faulk was significantly better when you consider more than just rushing yards: 19,154 yards from scrimmage for Faulk, 15,610 for James. Faulk had 136 total TDs, James had 91. Faulk's AV (not the be-all end-all, but a decent metric) is 166 to James' 136. Faulk also fumbled 8 fewer times in 28 more games. James does have him on average rushing yards per game, but Faulk's average yards from scrimmage per game is higher. Faulk's career 4.3 yards per carry beats James' 4.0, and Faulk averaged over 5 yards/carry 3 times, whereas James' career high was 4.6.

 

Second, you're not including the opportunity cost of trading Faulk. Yes, they got 2 good players and replaced him pretty well (James was arguably just as good his first 2 years; he just didn't have as much staying power), but they had to use the #4 overall pick to replace Faulk. If they had instead kept Faulk, they presumably would have drafted one of the other consensus top prospects - Torry Holt or Champ Bailey. Would you rather have Mike Peterson and Brad Scioli or one of Torry Holt or Champ Bailey? I'd understand if you still prefer Peterson/Scioli, but I'd rather have the borderline Hall of Famer at WR or CB than 2 role players, one of whom left after his rookie contract.

 

Oh, as an afterthought, the contract stuff doesn't sway me much either, since this was before the days of the rookie cap. Edge James actually made more in each of his first 3 years than Faulk did in that same time span - i.e., the Rams payed less for 3 years of MVP-caliber Faulk than the Colts did for almost-as-good James. It wasn't till Faulk got a new deal in 2002 that he overtook James.

[Tenhigh]

What could this possibly mean?

Maybe he was trying to say:

"JauroniMO? More like JauroniNO!"

[BuffaLoko]

Well that was a pretty horrible trade for Indy so not sure I want the Bills to use that as a model. Not to mention the prospect of spending the #10 pick to replace the guy we just traded for a 2d round pick + Ed Wang doesn't seem very appealing.

Ed Wang?? hahahaha LMAO!

[Jauronimo]

Is there any reason to think Buffalo is shopping McCoy? - No

Is there any reason to believe a team or teams are currently trying to trade for McCoy? - No

Is this hypothetical trade to unknown parties consistent with the current direction of the team? - No

Does this hypothetical trade to unidentified parties address any particular team need? - No

 

So what do we really have here: A nearly 20 year old precedent transaction (with very different context) setting the market for the trade of one player to an unknown party for no discernible reason??? Call me overly cautious, but I'm just not convinced that this move is in the team's best interest as currently drawn up.

[NoSaint]

Is there any reason to think Buffalo is shopping McCoy? - No

Is there any reason to believe a team or teams are currently trying to trade for McCoy? - No

Is this hypothetical trade to unknown parties consistent with the current direction of the team? - No

Does this hypothetical trade to unidentified parties address any particular team need? - No

 

So what do we really have here: A nearly 20 year old precedent transaction (with very different context) setting the market for the trade of one player to an unknown party for no discernible reason??? Call me overly cautious, but I'm just not convinced that this move is in the team's best interest as currently drawn up.

I'll mark you down as a "maybe"

[Beef Jerky]

This will never happen b.C of the Kyle Williams effect.

End of stupid discussion...

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

What could this possibly mean?

That your stabs at a huge group of Bills fans who have the same interest in talking Bills but just so happened to be on a different message board are juvenile and old. It's been a month now man, get new material.

You're slowly becoming the Pauly Shore of TBD.

Maybe you are the weeeaaaasssellllll?

[r00tabaga]

That your stabs at a huge group of Bills fans who have the same interest in talking Bills but just so happened to be on a different message board are juvenile and old. It's been a month now man, get new material.

You're slowly becoming the Pauly Shore of TBD.

Maybe you are the weeeaaaasssellllll?

 

LOLZOLOLZ!!! You. I like you.

[dave mcbride]

 

Fair argument, but I respectfully disagree. First, Faulk was significantly better when you consider more than just rushing yards: 19,154 yards from scrimmage for Faulk, 15,610 for James. Faulk had 136 total TDs, James had 91. Faulk's AV (not the be-all end-all, but a decent metric) is 166 to James' 136. Faulk also fumbled 8 fewer times in 28 more games. James does have him on average rushing yards per game, but Faulk's average yards from scrimmage per game is higher. Faulk's career 4.3 yards per carry beats James' 4.0, and Faulk averaged over 5 yards/carry 3 times, whereas James' career high was 4.6.

 

Second, you're not including the opportunity cost of trading Faulk. Yes, they got 2 good players and replaced him pretty well (James was arguably just as good his first 2 years; he just didn't have as much staying power), but they had to use the #4 overall pick to replace Faulk. If they had instead kept Faulk, they presumably would have drafted one of the other consensus top prospects - Torry Holt or Champ Bailey. Would you rather have Mike Peterson and Brad Scioli or one of Torry Holt or Champ Bailey? I'd understand if you still prefer Peterson/Scioli, but I'd rather have the borderline Hall of Famer at WR or CB than 2 role players, one of whom left after his rookie contract.

 

Oh, as an afterthought, the contract stuff doesn't sway me much either, since this was before the days of the rookie cap. Edge James actually made more in each of his first 3 years than Faulk did in that same time span - i.e., the Rams payed less for 3 years of MVP-caliber Faulk than the Colts did for almost-as-good James. It wasn't till Faulk got a new deal in 2002 that he overtook James.

They were both HOF caliber players, so arguing about who was better doesn't matter much (although I'd take Faulk too). The bigger issue was the contract: Faulk was basically pulling a Jason Peters move and wanted a lot more than the Colts were set to pay him. And he threatened (IIRC) to sit out ( https://mobile.nytimes.com/1999/04/16/sports/pro-football-colts-trade-faulk-to-rams.html ). We can argue whether Polian was wrong to play hardball (a legit argument, but that's how rolled, and he was undoubtedly a great GM), but if he felt that Faulk was going to hold out and/or be permanently disgruntled, then trading him and getting basically his equivalent as a replacement wasn't a bad deal. James was a GREAT player. Let's not forget that.

 

Also, if we're going to compare apples to apples, Faulk never averaged more than 4.1 ypc in Indy. The Rams' line was a LOT better than Indy's; Pace was better by far than any o-lineman playing for the Colts throughout the Manning era.

Edited April 6, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Jauronimo]

That your stabs at a huge group of Bills fans who have the same interest in talking Bills but just so happened to be on a different message board are juvenile and old. It's been a month now man, get new material.

You're slowly becoming the Pauly Shore of TBD.

Maybe you are the weeeaaaasssellllll?

You're a sensitive one. If that upsets you so much then I might suggest avoiding direct sunlight until your skin thickens a tad. Also, avoid spicy foods like white bread and milk as they may upset your delicate constitution.

 

Tenured members here are still taking crap for threads they started 5 years ago or longer and you want to whine about one month and comment not even directed toward you? Tell Buffalo Barbarian about your one month statute of limitations.

 

Thanks for all the tips about how to navigate TBD. It means a lot to me coming from someone with an illustrious posting history such as your own, but a sensitive guy like you should probably concern yourself with your own budding reputation.

[ajmac]

Wow, we are really getting bored here this time of the year folks. We need some football, and we are such a long ways away. I wonder how many times we will talk, trade Tyrod again, or trade Woods, how about trade Sammy, we could use a few of those, especially if we draft another top WR.

 

Some of you guys better take up golf or something! This is going to be a long summer...

Edited April 6, 2017 by ajmac

[dave mcbride]

Is there any reason to think Buffalo is shopping McCoy? - No

Is there any reason to believe a team or teams are currently trying to trade for McCoy? - No

Is this hypothetical trade to unknown parties consistent with the current direction of the team? - No

Does this hypothetical trade to unidentified parties address any particular team need? - No

 

So what do we really have here: A nearly 20 year old precedent transaction (with very different context) setting the market for the trade of one player to an unknown party for no discernible reason??? Call me overly cautious, but I'm just not convinced that this move is in the team's best interest as currently drawn up.

Speaking for myself, the most interesting discussion I've had with anyone in a couple of months on this board happened in this thread. Instead of attacking the OP, wait and see how the thread evolves. Sometimes they surprise you.

[ajmac]

Speaking for myself, the most interesting discussion I've had with anyone in a couple of months on this board happened in this thread. Instead of attacking the OP, wait and see how the thread evolves. Sometimes they surprise you.

I am actually afraid of what it has already turned into. I mean I guess it is all in fun, or at least I hope it is. This scenario just seems a bit far fetched, don't you think?

 

Not the idea of trading Shady, but the fact he thinks we would get a 2nd and a 5th. No way wit that much tread left on the tires. Three years back, maybe...

Edited April 6, 2017 by ajmac

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

You're a sensitive one. If that upsets you so much then I might suggest avoiding direct sunlight until your skin thickens a tad. Also, avoid spicy foods like white bread and milk as they may upset your delicate constitution.

 

Tenured members here are still taking crap for threads they started 5 years ago or longer and you want to whine about one month and comment not even directed toward you? Tell Buffalo Barbarian about your one month statute of limitations.

 

Thanks for all the tips about how to navigate TBD. It means a lot to me coming from someone with an illustrious posting history such as your own, but a sensitive guy like you should probably concern yourself with your own budding reputation.

You brought nothing to the discussion. Tried to come off snarky, when it was just repetitive.

And who's really sensitive?

Ya just typed enough to get finger cramps.

 

I guess we won't be buuuudddddiiiieeezz...

damn reputations shot already.

 

Shucks

Edited April 6, 2017 by Eric Moulds on my A**

[ndirish1978]

Did this just happen? Cause I feel like they got good value for a retired hall of famer if so. Think we could get something for Eric Moulds?

[dave mcbride]

I am actually afraid of what it has already turned into. I mean I guess it is all in fun, or at least I hope it is. This scenario just seems a bit far fetched, don't you think?

 

Not the idea of trading Shady, but the fact he thinks we would get a 2nd and a 5th. No way wit that much tread left on the tires. Three years back, maybe...

Speaking for myself (again), I honestly don't care about the actual premise of the thread (McCoy). I care about debating the merits of the actual Faulk trade.

[PIZ]

Sorry if my post was out of line or too off the wall. I don't claim to be an expert, but I also didn't think there were any experts here. I just posted it for discussion, which is what I thought was the purpose of this board. I thought we were all Bills fans wanting to discuss, not attack each other. A few years ago, I posted that the Bills should draft a RB in the later rounds and I was attacked for being stupid. They ended up drafting Karlos Williams. No one knows what these teams are thinking. I never would have thought Sam Bradford would get a 1st and I never would have guessed the Saints would give their entire draft for Ricky Williams. No one knows what Whaley, McDermott, and the Pegulas are thinking or what they'll do. Sorry again, and I'll let the experts post from now on.

[Beef Jerky]

Sorry if my post was out of line or too off the wall. I don't claim to be an expert, but I also didn't think there were any experts here. I just posted it for discussion, which is what I thought was the purpose of this board. I thought we were all Bills fans wanting to discuss, not attack each other. A few years ago, I posted that the Bills should draft a RB in the later rounds and I was attacked for being stupid. They ended up drafting Karlos Williams. No one knows what these teams are thinking. I never would have thought Sam Bradford would get a 1st and I never would have guessed the Saints would give their entire draft for Ricky Williams. No one knows what Whaley, McDermott, and the Pegulas are thinking or what they'll do. Sorry again, and I'll let the experts post from now on.

You are right trading McCoy has never been a thread on here... Not even a 20+ page thread.

[Clyde Smith]

it was just a birthday party

Lmao