FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Gregg Rosenthal had him 18th. If my math is correct that would be top 20 Ranking TT over both Flacco and Eli invalidates his everything. Gregggggggggggggggg should stop posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Id take him over Bradford, Smith and Eli on that list. Jameis was worse than Tyrod last year but expect him to improve more moving forward.False. Jameis threw for 4K yards and 28 Td's without lesean McCoy. Tyrod > Eli is laughable. Gotta sniff the playoffs before you can take him over 2 time sb winner jmo. Edited February 22, 2017 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Arguments that can be made: Bradford is always a risk to get hurt. He has only played a full season 2 out of 6 years. The Vikings offense went in the tank after their 5-0 start. After his first 4 games the Vikes put up 10,10,16, and 20 points. The Vikings as a team scored 20 or less points in 7 of his 15 starts. They scored 10 or less in 3 games. Bradford contributed less tds that TT did as well. 20 to 23. Alex Smith. You know your argument is in trouble when you have to go to calling him a winner. He stats are very similar and mostly a little worse than TT on a much better team with a much better supporting defense. Palmer is clearly on the downside of his career. For just 1 year I would probably take Palmer but going forward the Cards have to be looking for a replacement. I would add Flacco into the mix as well for an argument to be made. He was flat out terrible this year. TT has never played a full season. Alex Smith wins more than TT. Undebatable. Agree on Palmer, still better than TT with his body falling apart. Flacco is legit and way better than TT. Edited February 22, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 "you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20." It's not just TT vs Smith. You'd have to say "I'd take him over Smith and x." Not happening. It may have something to do with which QB wins a lot of games and which does not. Smith and Bradford without even blinking an eye for me. Please stop with the QB wins a lot of games. Do you really place the success of KC at the feet of Alex Smith? Not the defense that led the league in turnovers and had the 7th ranked scoring defense? The coach who has a .602 career winning percentage (35th all time)? Special Teams that contributed 3 tds (most in the league). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 TT has never played a full season. Alex Smith wins more than TT. Undebatable. Agree on Palmer, still better than TT with his body falling apart. Flacco is legit and way better than TT. Flacco has been bad for 2 years now. He is living off the (distant) memory of a SB win. Last year Tyrod had more tds, less ints, a better QB Rating, a better QBR, higher ypa, lower int%, higher td %, less sack yards taken. So please explain how Flacco is way better than TT. Oh yeah because you love wins and losses for a QB TT is 15-14 as a starter the last 2 years (.517 win%) and Flacco is 11-15 (.423 win%) over the same period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Smith and Bradford without even blinking an eye for me. Please stop with the QB wins a lot of games. Do you really place the success of KC at the feet of Alex Smith? Not the defense that led the league in turnovers and had the 7th ranked scoring defense? The coach who has a .602 career winning percentage (35th all time)? Special Teams that contributed 3 tds (most in the league). Remember when you called Bradford an injury risk because he's only played 2 full seasons? I think Smith plays a significant part in KC winning. What was their record before they got him? What was the Bills record before we got TT? Flacco has been bad for 2 years now. He is living off the (distant) memory of a SB win. Last year Tyrod had more tds, less ints, a better QB Rating, a better QBR, higher ypa, lower int%, higher td %, less sack yards taken. So please explain how Flacco is way better than TT. Oh yeah because you love wins and losses for a QB TT is 15-14 as a starter the last 2 years (.517 win%) and Flacco is 11-15 (.423 win%) over the same period. Flacco has a history of winning with some down years. Give him Sammy, Clay and McCoy and he'd eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Ranking TT over both Flacco and Eli invalidates his everything. Gregggggggggggggggg should stop posting. PFF has him higher than Flacco too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 PFF has him higher than Flacco too... Yes yes, and Andy Levitre was the best G in the NFL according to PFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 alex smith is who we want tyrod to be. same type yards and tds with low pick numbers. relies on the defense to win the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Remember when you called Bradford an injury risk because he's only played 2 full seasons? I think Smith plays a significant part in KC winning. What was their record before they got him? What was the Bills record before we got TT? Flacco has a history of winning with some down years. Give him Sammy, Clay and McCoy and he'd eat. Again we are just going to have to agree to disagree that winning is a QB stat. Strange that after Flacco signed that huge deal and the defense got worse all of a sudden he didn't win as much. Flacco has a history of winning. 3 years ago this wouldn't have been a conversation. Now however Flacco has a knee injury and 2 straight years of poor performance. Add in that he is 32 to TT's 27 and the conversation becomes even muckier. Do you agree that Tyrod outplayed Flacco last year? Can argue this. The guy had Trevor Simeon over Eli. Weirdly Eli had a worse year last year than in 2014 and 2015 but the team performed much better. After back to back 6-10 season where Eli went for 30 and 35 tds with 14 ints he went for 26 tds and 16 ints and the team went 11-5. The difference was in 2016 they had a defense. Eli is a strange QB. He's good and terrible in the same game and in the same series even. His career completion % is less than 60. He has finished with 2 games of 8-8 9 of 12 years. Just a hard guy to get a handle on. He is certainly someone I would take oveer Trevor Simeon though lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyphe23 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 False. Jameis threw for 4K yards and 28 Td's without lesean McCoy. Tyrod > Eli is laughable. Gotta sniff the playoffs before you can take him over 2 time sb winner jmo. Jameis threw 18 interceptions, second most in the league. Way to ignore that. Eli is a shell of his former self and that's with a great receiving corp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Jameis threw 18 interceptions, second most in the league. Way to ignore that. Eli is a shell of his former self and that's with a great receiving corp. Jameis also didn't check down more than half the time. Decent QBs throw picks because they actually have the confidence to take chances. He is far, far better than Tyrod will ever be. If a shell has 63% completions for over 4K, 26TD and 16INT (on their way to the post season) ... sign me up for the shell of Manning, please. Edited February 22, 2017 by Gugny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyphe23 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Jameis also didn't check down more than half the time. Decent QBs throw picks because they actually have the confidence to take chances. He is far, far better than Tyrod will ever be. If a shell has 63% completions for over 4K, 26TD and 16INT (on their way to the post season) ... sign me up for the shell of Manning, please. Fitzpatrick had better numbers than both two years ago, do you want him too? Haha Also only 2 playoff QBs ranked in the top 10 in the league in INTs thrown, Eli and Brock Osweiler. 7 of the top 10 QBs in least INTs thrown made the playoffs. To act like that doesn't matter as long as you throw for 4K yards is ridiculous. Edited February 22, 2017 by Hyphe23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 #3 most likely QB to be traded according to NFL Insiders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 That's the key "I'd" not "everybody". It is certainly debatable in those cases. As I said earlier, I would have him at 20 (ish) but if someone said that he was better than Alex Smith (his numbers certainly support that) it isn't crazy. That was the point. There is certainly subjectivity when it comes to guys like that group I named. I'd expect about 90% of NFL personnel would rank Taylor below those guys. It's really hard for me to square someone saying they think Taylor is a better QB than Flacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Jameis threw 18 interceptions, second most in the league. Way to ignore that. Eli is a shell of his former self and that's with a great receiving corp. you will never see ryan throw a negative into his posts his takes are hard enough to justify as it is two things Take a look at the win loss records of the two teams and RR for all of his faults was smart enough to realize his vaunted defense was getting smacked around and couldnt fix it......did it ever occurr to any of you NNN's that we played conservatively (i.e. NOT throw int's which will ASSURE you of losses) because our D just could not overcome it just imagine what our record would be if we were actually turning the ball over? Why do the anti taylors just choose to completely ignore that our team philosophy was supposed to be based on strong D but was not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 you will never see ryan throw a negative into his posts his takes are hard enough to justify as it is two things Take a look at the win loss records of the two teams and RR for all of his faults was smart enough to realize his vaunted defense was getting smacked around and couldnt fix it......did it ever occurr to any of you NNN's that we played conservatively (i.e. NOT throw int's which will ASSURE you of losses) because our D just could not overcome it just imagine what our record would be if we were actually turning the ball over? Why do the anti taylors just choose to completely ignore that our team philosophy was supposed to be based on strong D but was not? Why would your philosophy be a strong defense John? Because the offense isn't good, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) I'd expect about 90% of NFL personnel would rank Taylor below those guys. It's really hard for me to square someone saying they think Taylor is a better QB than Flacco. I think that it depends on the guy. I absolutely don't think that 90% of personnel people would rank Alex Smith ahead of him. He has played better football over the last 2 years than Smith ever has. Smith has never eclipsed 24 TDs in a season in his career. Tyrod averages 26 per 16 games in a Bills unifrom. Tyrod averages more yards a game, has a higher TD %, a lower INT %, has a higher QB rating and a better QBR. I do not for 1 second believe that 90% of the people that do this for a living would prefer Smith. Edited February 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Why would your philosophy be a strong defense John? Because the offense isn't good, maybe? Please go back to when there was a 3 way competition for qb of this team What were the expectations? We had come off a top 5 defense and the year before that set a NFL sack record All we were looking for was a "game manager" because our D was great......everyone was expecting cassel to take it but TT ended up emerging.....we were actally pleasantly suprised when he ended up being better then anticipated for a late round backup qb sitting behind flacco And the defense fell off the earth Our offense was not "bad" it was 7th in the league in scoring points....if ANYTHING it overperformed expectations the the overperforming BECAME the expectation.....and all of a sudden people are just expecting the D to suck that was NEVER supposed to be the philosophy of the team. Now....its a new day.....but once again we have hired a DC as our HC with a record of (prior to last year) consistant D in the top 10 with the panthers....they haired a OC in Dennyson who came from the same philosphy of a team......dominant D, run the ball....(Denver's pass catching core much better) Do you see where I am going with this? Regardless of who is the qb of the team we are still running along the same philosphy as the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Ugh, too many Tyrod topics, posted this in the wrong one at first... So, I pulled all below info from ProFootballReference's 2016 NFL Passing Stats. I just wanted to see how bad Tyrod really was strictly as a passer, without even factoring the ground game into it. I'll list his ranking among all qualifying QBs in the stats that are relevant. Attempts: 25th (436) Completion %: 19th (61.7%) Passing Yards: 25th (3,023) Passing TDs: 24th (17) TD%: 18th (3.9%) INT%: 8th (1.4%) Yards per Attempt: 21st (6.9) QB Rating: 18th (89.7) QBR: 9th (68.2) ANY/A: 18th (6.07) So in 2016 his worst ranking was 25th, for total attempts and total yards. Otherwise it would appear he was basically the 18th or 19th best QB going strictly by passing stats. Also, since a few seem to think he sucked in '15 as well even when he had more weapons healthy: (link) Attempts: 24th (380) Completion %: 16th (63.7%) Passing Yards: 23rd (3,035) Passing TDs: 21st (20) TD%: 13th (5.3%) INT%: 5th (1.6%) Yards per Attempt: 5th (8.0) QB Rating: 7th (99.4) QBR: 7th (67.84) ANY/A: 9th (7.10) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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