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Trump and Russia

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Golden Goat
Golden Goat
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mollie and some schmuck on a football message board sub forum  

Deranged Rhino
Deranged Rhino

They knew in JANUARY 2017 that there was nothing there. This is TEN months later...    It was always a coup. 

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BeginnersMind Veteran

BeginnersMind

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

It's common knowledge here at PPP that Gary is a potential sex abuser. Out of fairness and doing what's right, we are giving him the same treatment he has dished out.

 

I thought the abuser was another guy here. Hard to keep track. 

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Deranged Rhino Hall of Famer

Deranged Rhino

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Kemp said:

A coup led by who?

(Been in a room all day without a computer, sorry for the delay)

 

The establishment party - which crosses the aisle between both parties (uniparty) was, and is, leading the coup. This has never been about republican versus democrat, or even Trump versus Clinton. It was always the establishment versus the people. Whether you agree with him or not, the people chose Trump to lead - and the establishment has loudly responded by trying to undo that choice - rule of law or the constitution be damned. 

 

Trump was an outsider, a threat to the status quo and the uni-party. His views on both domestic and foreign policy flew in the face of both sides of the aisle long standing traditions and norms (he ran on being opposed to nation building - even Clinton was running on the continuation of that policy as an example). Thus, his victory was a threat to that establishment and they efforted to thwart it from happening, the will of the people be damned. They activated a highly illegal political spying operation (which pre-dated Trump's election and was used by multiple administrations, not just the last) in the hopes of stopping his victory, and relied on a leak strategy through the controlled media to poison the minds of the public and create the illusion of guilt in the absence of evidence and facts. 

 

They were confident they would succeed. So confident they cut corners, rushed the intelligence product, and gamed the system - all the while leaving a trail that even an amateur sleuth could follow. Which is why this is now blowing up in the conspirators' faces (soon to be even more so with the declass of the FISA announced today). 

 

Then, when the unthinkable happened and Trump won (fair and square), the threat to the establishment was about to be in the White House. About to be in control of the DOJ and able to prosecute/investigate the crimes that were committed against his campaign (and yes, there were serious crimes committed against his campaign). That's why, before he ever took office, an attempt was made through the media and the DOJ/FBI/CIA/DNI/44's administration to undercut the incoming administration and drown it in a phony Russian Collusion scandal. The intent was veto the election and oust him in scandal - or, if that fell short (which it did), to cripple his ability to execute and implement the policies he ran on by tarring him with fabricated charges of being Putin's puppet (which has largely worked in the public's eyes).

 

See, I'm not a republican. I'm not a democrat. I'm a Hollywood writing liberal in the most traditional sense. Which is why when I discovered that this entire investigation was predicated on largely unelected officials abusing the powers of the most intrusive and powerful surveillance state ever known to man to overturn a legal election and thwart the will of the people, I was mortified. I continue to be. 

 

This isn't about Trump. It's about whether or not we the people actually have a say in the process. The attacks have come from the establishment on both sides of the aisle, in both media spheres, because the establishment believes they have the right to overturn the will of the people in a democratic republic. That's criminal. It's a violation of everything this country is supposed to stand for. And if you sit by and root for it to happen just because you find Trump distasteful (and plenty do) - then you're saying it's okay that we don't have a say.

 

You're saying it's okay for career officials inside the intelligence agencies and media conglomerates to overturn any election results they don't agree with. 

 

That means our entire foundation of government is nothing but a mirage.  

 

Freedom is hard. We sacrificed keystone civil liberties in the wake of 9/11 for security because we were told it was necessary. Now, we are being given a choice (though it's not being advertised as such): either we the people have the right to elect who we want, even if it's a mistake in the eyes of tradition... or we don't. 

 

And if we don't, then we no longer can call the United States of America the "land of the free". 

 

 

 

 

 

You'll probably scoff this off - but when it comes down to it, there's mountains more evidence to prove what I'm saying happened than anything Russian/Collusion/Conspiracy related. Mountains and mountains more....

Edited by Deranged Rhino
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Kemp Veteran

Kemp

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On 9/17/2018 at 12:11 PM, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Clinton was never convicted of anything.  He wasn't removed from office.

 

This is also markedly different than anything President Clinton endued.

 

President Trump's term began with accusations that his Presidency was illegitimate.

 

Let that sink in.

 

Rather than accept the results of free and fair elections, the Democratic Party has normalized rejecting election results in favor of criminal investigations initiated without evidence of a crime, but rather for politically motivated reasons.

 

You don't think that's a dangerous precedent? 

 

You don't think this is how all of our elections will proceed going forward?

 

Wow! You didn't know Clinton was impeached!

I just checked. Trump has not been removed from office.

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Kemp Veteran

Kemp

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On 9/17/2018 at 1:21 PM, 4merper4mer said:

You are incorrect or uninformed about your first and third points.  There is plenty of material on this boards that refutes both.

 

Your second point had what to do with Trump? Who attempted to hack into what voting machines specifically?

 

I get it. If it doesn't fit your narrative, it's fake news.

 

Trump says that the Russians didn't do anything in an attempt to help him. All of the government agencies and Congress say otherwise. It is not a point of dispute that the voting machines were attacked. Who do you think was behind it.?

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kemp said:

 

Wow! You didn't know Clinton was impeached!

I just checked. Trump has not been removed from office.

 

Impeachment isn't conviction.  The House impeaches, after which the Senate votes to convict or acquit...and Clinton was acquitted by the Senate, not convicted.

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4merper4mer Hall of Famer

4merper4mer

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Kemp said:

 

I get it. If it doesn't fit your narrative, it's fake news.

 

Trump says that the Russians didn't do anything in an attempt to help him. All of the government agencies and Congress say otherwise. It is not a point of dispute that the voting machines were attacked. Who do you think was behind it.?

Dude.

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

Wow! You didn't know Clinton was impeached!

I just checked. Trump has not been removed from office.

 

That's not how the impeachment process works.

 

It's a bi-cameral process with each legislative body having a distinct role, each tasked with that role as part of the Constitutional process of checks and balances, the House intended to be the direct will of the People more subject to populist whims, the Senate the steadying hand representing the interests of the individual state governments.

 

The House essentially votes for the impeachment process to proceed to the Senate:  it's really no more than a referral for prosecution.

 

The Senate, whom represents the interests of the various governments which make up the United States, then examines the referral, and decides to convict, or not.

 

President Clinton was impeached (referred to the Senate for conviction) which they declined to do.

 

Bill Clinton was never convicted of anything.

Edited by TakeYouToTasker
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4merper4mer Hall of Famer

4merper4mer

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

That's not how the impeachment process works.

 

It's a bi-cameral process with each legislative body having a distinctive role, each tasked with that role as part of the Constitutional process of checks and balances, the House intended to be the direct will of the People more subject to populist whims, the Senate the steadying hand representing the interests of the individual state governments.

 

The House essentially votes for the impeachment process to proceed to the Senate:  it's really no more than a referral for prosecution.

 

The Senate, whom represents the interests of the various governments which make up the United States, then examines the referral, and decides to convict, or not.

 

President Clinton was impeached (referred to the Senate for conviction) which they declined to do.

 

Bill Clinton was never convicted of anything.

Thanks and it all makes sense except the bi-cameral thing.  First, I don't think the Lewinsky stuff was filmed.  And there haven't even been rumors about another guy being involved.

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donbb Rookie

donbb

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Posted

Here is a fantastic article that cuts through all the conspiracy crap and goes over the actual timeline of the Russia investigation. It's a long read, but worth your while.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

Trump 'dossier' stuck in New York, didn't trigger Russia investigation, sources say

 

President Donald Trump and his allies have long insisted that what he calls the “fake dirty dossier” was wholly “responsible for starting the totally and discredited witch hunt” by special counsel Robert Mueller.

 

But, beginning in July 2016, that so-called “dossier” actually sat for several weeks inside an organized crime unit at the FBI’s New York field office, even as counterintelligence agents in Washington, D.C. – unaware of the new allegations – were already investigating Russian efforts to hijack American democracy.

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

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4 minutes ago, donbb said:

Here is a fantastic article that cuts through all the conspiracy crap and goes over the actual timeline of the Russia investigation. It's a long read, but worth your while.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

Trump 'dossier' stuck in New York, didn't trigger Russia investigation, sources say

 

President Donald Trump and his allies have long insisted that what he calls the “fake dirty dossier” was wholly “responsible for starting the totally and discredited witch hunt” by special counsel Robert Mueller.

 

But, beginning in July 2016, that so-called “dossier” actually sat for several weeks inside an organized crime unit at the FBI’s New York field office, even as counterintelligence agents in Washington, D.C. – unaware of the new allegations – were already investigating Russian efforts to hijack American democracy.

 

I like how the "Trump investigation" has now become the "Russia investigation" and somehow divested itself of any idea of Trump's involvement...

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donbb Rookie

donbb

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Just now, DC Tom said:

 

I like how the "Trump investigation" has now become the "Russia investigation" and somehow divested itself of any idea of Trump's involvement...

 

It was never the "Trump Investigation." From Republican and Trump appointee Rod Rosenstein's mandate to Mueller on what he is allowed to investigate...

 

"(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump"

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3rdnlng Hall of Famer

3rdnlng

Posted
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Thanks and it all makes sense except the bi-cameral thing.  First, I don't think the Lewinsky stuff was filmed.  And there haven't even been rumors about another guy being involved.

 

 

 

camel2big.jpg

Then I can have it all wrong:

sopwith.jpg

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3rdnlng Hall of Famer

3rdnlng

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

That's not a Camel, you idiot.  That's a Spad XIII.

 

(Jesus, I knew that at a glance.  It's amazing I've gotten laid in my life.)

Well, I like to get laid so I wouldn't know the difference. It was labeled that way when I searched for it.

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3rdnlng Hall of Famer

3rdnlng

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Genghis Khan was first-born.  He didn't have any older siblings.  

 

At least put some effort in to trying to one-up me.  :lol:

Are you saying you've upped your game? He had an older half brother from another mother that was named James. The brother, not the mother. He also had a half sister named Madeline. And you call yourself a historian.

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, donbb said:

Here is a fantastic article that cuts through all the conspiracy crap and goes over the actual timeline of the Russia investigation. It's a long read, but worth your while.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-dossier-stuck-york-trigger-russia-investigation-sources/story?id=57919471

 

Trump 'dossier' stuck in New York, didn't trigger Russia investigation, sources say

 

President Donald Trump and his allies have long insisted that what he calls the “fake dirty dossier” was wholly “responsible for starting the totally and discredited witch hunt” by special counsel Robert Mueller.

 

But, beginning in July 2016, that so-called “dossier” actually sat for several weeks inside an organized crime unit at the FBI’s New York field office, even as counterintelligence agents in Washington, D.C. – unaware of the new allegations – were already investigating Russian efforts to hijack American democracy.

Organized crime. Yup, that is very fitting. 

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keepthefaith All Pro

keepthefaith

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, about all that the former IC has left is whatever evidence they can cobble together to try and explain why they thought Page and others were involved with Russia and against the United States.  They were simply following false leads.  They were fooled and are sorry. 

Edited by keepthefaith
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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Well, about all that the former IC has left is whatever evidence they can cobble together to try and explain why they thought Page and others were involved with Russia and against the United States.  They were simply following false leads.  They were fooled and are sorry. 

 

That will be very difficult given Page's employment with the FBI working to take down Russian spys; that and the fact that he's a free man walking around with no charges ever brought against him in any capacity.

Edited by TakeYouToTasker
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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not really.  It's in the bracing.


Sort of on topic. Colonel Cheater is totally Deep State 

Quote


A U.S. Reaper drone shot down another with a missile, the Air Force revealed yesterday. The incident, which took place last year and involved an unmanned target drone, was the first case of a drone shooting down another another aircraft. The event ism a watershed moment in the history of aerial warfare, as unmanned aircraft begin to muscle in on air-to-air combat—previously the exclusive domain of manned aircraft.

Colonel Julian Cheater, commander of the 432nd Air Expeditionary Wing, revealed the incident in an interview with Military.com. The 432nd “Hunters” Wing is based at Creech Air Force Base, Nevada and is responsible for “unmanned precision attack and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance missions...in support of overseas contingency operations”.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a23320374/reaper-drone-first-unmanned-air-to-air-kill/

 

 

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DC Tom Hall of Famer

DC Tom

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Tiberius said:


Sort of on topic. Colonel Cheater is totally Deep State 

 

 

He's probably a New England fan, too.

 

And here I was setting you up to reply that your "That is impressive" remark was in response to the fact that I've ever gotten laid.

 

To which I would have replied "Yeah...it's in the bracing."

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