dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Notwithstanding how good he was in that game, he was ridiculously productive over the course of his career. Only Jerry Rice had more YPG than Owens. Put him next to Tim Brown. 255 games, 58.6 YPG and 100 TD's for Brown, who's a hall of famer. Owens played in 219 games, had 72.8 YPG and 153 TD's. That's just ridiculous. He should be in the HOF and should have been first ballot. To be fair to Brown, he spent a fair part of his early career as a return man, and he was great at it: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowTi00.htm. He led the NFL in kickoff return yards and yards per return in 1988 with 1,098 yards, and he is sixth all time in punt return yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I lived in San Francisco when TO was there. And TO quickly built a reputation as a me-first, disruptive kind of guy. He might have behaved well with the Bills but he did not earlier in his career. Part of the impact you have as a player is the impact you have on your teammates. Some players - like Jim Kelly - get 'bonus points, for their leadership. I can see why certain selectors would assess 'penalty points' to TO for his anti-leadership traits so to speak. I hope/think these selectors don't intend to keep TO out of the HOF forever. I'm guessing they're just denying him the honor of early entry. TO will eventually get in. Btw, I personally would have voted for TO in his first year of eligibility. There was just too much undeniable talent there, too much production. I get it's not fair to compare receivers of different eras, but I've got to point this out: TO has 3 times as many 1000 yard seasons as John Stallworth and Lynn Swann combined and they're both in the HOF. Nonetheless, I can't vilify those on the other side of the argument. Performance in the huddle, locker room, meeting rooms and on the practice field count. These also effect a team's chances of winning. I not disagreeing with anything you said. I'm just pointing out to others who are pontificating about TO's conduct as a teammate that Bruce Smith was a me first type of player and person. He deserved to be in the HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 I lived in San Francisco when TO was there. And TO quickly built a reputation as a me-first, disruptive kind of guy. He might have behaved well with the Bills but he did not earlier in his career. Part of the impact you have as a player is the impact you have on your teammates. Some players - like Jim Kelly - get 'bonus points, for their leadership. I can see why certain selectors would assess 'penalty points' to TO for his anti-leadership traits so to speak. I hope/think these selectors don't intend to keep TO out of the HOF forever. I'm guessing they're just denying him the honor of early entry. TO will eventually get in. Btw, I personally would have voted for TO in his first year of eligibility. There was just too much undeniable talent there, too much production. I get it's not fair to compare receivers of different eras, but I've got to point this out: TO has 3 times as many 1000 yard seasons as John Stallworth and Lynn Swann combined and they're both in the HOF. Nonetheless, I can't vilify those on the other side of the argument. Performance in the huddle, locker room, meeting rooms and on the practice field count. These also effect a team's chances of winning. And THIS is the basis for all that is wrong with HOF voting. It's complete b.s. You either belong or you don't. The guys whose credentials speak for themselves deserve to be voted in as soon as they are eligible, and the guys who are "close" but need more discussion are the ones who should wait. TO is a hands-down first ballot HOFer, and the b.s. being dredged up in "support" of not voting him in is embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 One of the curious arguments against his inclusion is the fact these reporters keep saying he was run out of town "at every stop." I can obviously see that being said in Philly (although it was contract related, I don't hold it against TO), but where the hell are they finding this argument that he was run out of Dallas? He still put up a good season in 2008, but he had a large cap hit from the massive contract he signed the year prior and was cut. By Vic's theory, almost every player that has been cut could be construed as "run out of town." The guy was 35 years old, turning 36, when he was cut and signed with Buffalo. There are probably many Hall of Fame WRs who were probably on their second (or third) team by that time. This is clearly one of those cases where these HOF voters have reached their predetermined conclusion and are now grasping at flimsy arguments to fill their narrative. Like Florio, I'm happy to see a voter come out and put pen to paper why they wouldn't vote for him, but that doesn't make it any less embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Vic has gotten far far away from what the jedi master of sports reporters (Felser) taught him. Of course, Larry Felser didnt have to deal with the internet, thats whats really killed alot of otherwise good reporters. Its a shame Carruci cant cultivate the type of relationship with Pegula, that Felser had with Ralph. I feel sorry for Him. TO was a jerk and a really bad team mate, which is why he wasnt voted in. I would have loved to see TO play with Tyrod TO also was flirting with unretiring and still is and there has never been a Hall of Fame player who was still playing after getting award and I am sure journalists certainly do not want him to be the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Carucci and the argument against TO is so stupid. He clearly deserves to be in, and the reasons why to keep him out are flimsy. Most of the dings they're hanging on TO were media creations anyway, and this episode is just another example. Give the man his due and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Owens should be in the Hall of Fame. They blew it. I watched the Eagles/Patriots Super Bowl from 2004. Owens, essentially playing on one leg, kept the Eagles in that entire game. I've never understood the Terrell Owens hate, especially from Bills fans. He played hard when he was here and treated the fans and area well. I remember the Lee Evans fans getting upset everytime someone would say TO is the true #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Owens is definitely a HOF receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The odd thing about it is that I don't think ANYONE actually believes that TO isn't a HOFer. His roughly 16,000 yards and 150+ TDs make his case undeniable. The writers are just holding a ridiculous grudge because they have the power to do that. They should just be like "I don't like the guy so I'm not voting for him." That's less embarrassing than the BS justification they keep trying to spew. They look stupider and more petty every time they try to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 TO should have went in this year, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The odd thing about it is that I don't think ANYONE actually believes that TO isn't a HOFer. His roughly 16,000 yards and 150+ TDs make his case undeniable. The writers are just holding a ridiculous grudge because they have the power to do that. They should just be like "I don't like the guy so I'm not voting for him." That's less embarrassing than the BS justification they keep trying to spew. They look stupider and more petty every time they try to explain it. The most nonsensical argument I have heard in keeping a person out of the HOF when the first vote comes up is that he doesn't deserve it on the first vote but deserves it on the second or later vote. That makes no sense to me. It demonstrates how irrational and personal the voting has come to be. Although there is plenty of hostility directed toward him what even his harshest critics have to admit is that no one prepared and worked harder during the season and offseason like he did. Sometimes his intensity and his emotions got out of control but no one can deny that the passion he had for the game. He cared to the point that it sometimes got the best of him. However, could you imagine if a Darius or Mario had the same attitude that he had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Article was an embarrassment. Vic is not even a shadow of the journalist he used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The most nonsensical argument I have heard in keeping a person out of the HOF when the first vote comes up is that he doesn't deserve it on the first vote but deserves it on the second or later vote. That makes no sense to me. It demonstrates how irrational and personal the voting has come to be. Although there is plenty of hostility directed toward him what even his harshest critics have to admit is that no one prepared and worked harder during the season and offseason like he did. Sometimes his intensity and his emotions got out of control but no one can deny that the passion he had for the game. He cared to the point that it sometimes got the best of him. However, could you imagine if a Darius or Mario had the same attitude that he had? I couldn't agree more John. Someone buy it well earlier in the thread. If the guy belongs in the HOF you vote him in. If there are questions you vote him in when there is a spot for him. It's not up to them to make deserving people wait. The voters have a simple job, "vote for the people that most deserve the HOF." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Vic apparently needed to sell his soul to return; we thought he as an avenging angel to save us from Sully and Bucky but he back the third horseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The odd thing about it is that I don't think ANYONE actually believes that TO isn't a HOFer. His roughly 16,000 yards and 150+ TDs make his case undeniable. The writers are just holding a ridiculous grudge because they have the power to do that. They should just be like "I don't like the guy so I'm not voting for him." That's less embarrassing than the BS justification they keep trying to spew. They look stupider and more petty every time they try to explain it. Agreed. The most nonsensical argument I have heard in keeping a person out of the HOF when the first vote comes up is that he doesn't deserve it on the first vote but deserves it on the second or later vote. That makes no sense to me. It demonstrates how irrational and personal the voting has come to be. Although there is plenty of hostility directed toward him what even his harshest critics have to admit is that no one prepared and worked harder during the season and offseason like he did. Sometimes his intensity and his emotions got out of control but no one can deny that the passion he had for the game. He cared to the point that it sometimes got the best of him. However, could you imagine if a Darius or Mario had the same attitude that he had? Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 TO not in the HOF is disgusting and a HUGE black eye for the voters. Marvin Harrison had an inferior career and SHOT A GUY!! The voters look ridiculous and watching them try to justify it is even more pathetic. Fortunately they have been annihilated on social media. They are the ones that came out looking stupid. Yeah, Harrison should get pulled out. He's not deserving anyway. Moss is the greatest football catcher in NFL history. TO is the second best statistically. Harrison's election will look worse as the years go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Yeah, Harrison should get pulled out. He's not deserving anyway. Moss is the greatest football catcher in NFL history. TO is the second best statistically. Harrison's election will look worse as the years go by. Interesting wording 'football catcher" - it reminds me of "punt catcher". WRs are supposed to do more than catch balls just as RBs are supposed to do more than run with ball and QBs are supposed to do more than throw balls (Marino's weakness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 He is not the second or third best receiver of all time. We've been over this ground before. YOU NEED TO ADJUST FOR THE ERA! Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Vic apparently needed to sell his soul to return; we thought he as an avenging angel to save us from Sully and Bucky but he back the third horseman. You mean the third stooge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bocephuz Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 im worried about vic. seems like he might be suffering from early onset dementia. not even joking I think he's spread too thin. He spends a lot of time on Sirius radio and doing other things rather than focusing on his day job. I pretty much ignore anything by Vic or Sully nowadays. I do miss Tyler Dunne.. but he was smart to leave a sinking ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 yep on that i cant even think of anybody local id want to listen to anymore. thats sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 yep on that i cant even think of anybody local id want to listen to anymore. thats sad Gotta be Sal Capaccio, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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