MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) You guys saying he can't catch are nuts. And, because he was healthy this year, he did some pretty nice work on the shorter, possession type routes when called upon. You have to fill out your WR spots, you could do far worse than Goodwin. We don't even know if Listenbee will be healthy...if so, why not let them duke it out over the summer? The same point where you think everyone sucks! He had at least 3 or 4 games this year where he was a good part of the passing game, and caught some tough 1st down passes. Nobody is saying he is the second coming of Julio Jones, but you could really do far worse. Not really there are J.A.Gs Kolby Listenbee was drafted to offer what Goodwin already does, so they will get the same production (minimal) with a 4th round Rookie Contract. When you are cap tight because of some bad contracts that is what happens. Edited January 23, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think Goodwin is a solid receiver, and the Bills are going to be running an offense that focuses on YAC. A guy like Goodwin can be an asset in that type of offense as he's super fast and can run in open space. My feeling is this comes down to money. If he's cheap enough to bring back, let's keep the depth. If it looks like he wants some money then I'll likely pass. Then they don't want to keep Goodwin. YAC: 2.8....among the worst in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 i bet you couldn't catch him in the open field Yeah your right. He is fast let's keep him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 At what point in his career has he shown he is Solid at anything? He's had some good games, Seattle and Miami this year come to mind. He can catch the ball in space and run well, and he has good speed on deep routes. His game fits a Dennison offense decently because that type of offense is all about getting receivers in space and running with the ball. Realize I'm not saying we should pay him a ton of money or that I think he's a star or anything. Right now, he's going into next year as the best #4 WR we have on the roster. Listenbee hasn't played a down in the NFL, he's a relative unknown, and I don't think it's smart to bank on him. If we can structure a Goodwin contract that makes him easily cuttable, it makes a ton of sense to bring him back as the incumbent #4 WR, and he obviously would be competing with the other WRs in camp to make the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 He's had some good games, Seattle and Miami this year come to mind. He can catch the ball in space and run well, and he has good speed on deep routes. His game fits a Dennison offense decently because that type of offense is all about getting receivers in space and running with the ball. Realize I'm not saying we should pay him a ton of money or that I think he's a star or anything. Right now, he's going into next year as the best #4 WR we have on the roster. Listenbee hasn't played a down in the NFL, he's a relative unknown, and I don't think it's smart to bank on him. If we can structure a Goodwin contract that makes him easily cuttable, it makes a ton of sense to bring him back as the incumbent #4 WR, and he obviously would be competing with the other WRs in camp to make the team. Just move on. If he is on the street and not overpaid because of speed after the draft fine, a non guaranteed vet MIN contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) I'd let him go and go with Watkins, draft pick round 1 -3, Kamar Aiken, Hunter, Listenbee and Tate. I bring up Aiken as he think he'll be a cheap alternative to Woods and has some limited experience in the Dennison/Kubiak system in Baltimore. Edited January 23, 2017 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I have been a fan of Goodwin in the past. However, would prefer to let him go. Too unreliable. I like his skills and physical play for a small guy. I also question is desire to play football. Based on what, the fact that he keeps coming back after injuries? Or the fact that he's still playing football and he'll be playing next season as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 They need to prioritize durability while resetting the WR corps. You can't keep trotting out the same 3 or 4 oft injured players and then act surprised when they are all on the shelf before week 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 His 42.6% completion rate to him can be accomplished by any WR. In fact if you want to keep TT as QB he is the worst WR you could have. you need one with a catch radius not someone that needs a perfectly thrown football to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Then they don't want to keep Goodwin. YAC: 2.8....among the worst in the NFL. It's a good data point but I believe that is more a product of the offense we ran than anything else. Woods, for example, was at 2.5 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Walter Powell has a better reception to TGT % and is cheap, runs better routes and plays teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 It's a good data point but I believe that is more a product of the offense we ran than anything else. Woods, for example, was at 2.5 this year. If you aren't using Goodwin on speed routes, you don't need him. His YAC showed what we could see--he rarely could shake coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just for comparison. Here is were Goodwin ranks from the bottom in TGT Catch% (only used guys with over 30 TGTs on the year) reason I used 30 it means they were at least a decent part of an offense. Devin Funchess - 58 TGTs, 39.7% and a drop rate of 5.2% Torrey Smith - 49 TGTS, 40.8% and a drop rate of 4.1% Goodwin - 68 TGTS, 42.6% and a drop rate of 2.9% ((lower drop rate meaning doesn't register a lot of drops (Just two) but still hard to complete passes to him) Here is you want to see all the ones lower (not many) https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re enlightener Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 If you aren't using Goodwin on speed routes, you don't need him. His YAC showed what we could see--he rarely could shake coverage. look at almost every pass thrown to him this year.... a comeback at the sideline, where hes stretching out of bounds to fall and grab the pass at the same time. how much rac would you get if you needed to fall out of bounds to catch passe? Here we have a great example of stats vs reality. THE reality was, no one could get yac with those types of routes and he was thrown 2-3 good deep balls this year, the rest badly overthrown, even for him. Watkins rac in 2015 was tied for 81 with a back up tight end, this is tightwads fault, and the OC not calling his number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 His go to route this year was a twinkle-toe catch and fall out of bounds unscathed. And honestly, I think thats all hes good for. Even the long ball wasnt there much this year for him, and I think alot of that is that Tyrod lost confidence in him as a receiver. If you run him down the sideline and force him to make a play for the ball, you might as well punt because hed rather do nothing than go up and compete for it. And if he dives for it, hes hurt. And if he catches it and gets hit, hes hurt. Not a whole lot of upside to Goodwin once you realize that hes a fast WR who doesnt go deep very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 look at almost every pass thrown to him this year.... a comeback at the sideline, where hes stretching out of bounds to fall and grab the pass at the same time. how much rac would you get if you needed to fall out of bounds to catch passe? Here we have a great example of stats vs reality. THE reality was, no one could get yac with those types of routes and he was thrown 2-3 good deep balls this year, the rest badly overthrown, even for him. Watkins rac in 2015 was tied for 81 with a back up tight end, this is tightwads fault, and the OC not calling his number. That was my point. If this is what you want in WR, get a stronger younger one who is available for full seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My biggest issue w/ Goodwin is that no coach seems to be able to get him into space so he can run after catch. Can't be the fastest person in the league and never be able to turn a 7 yard catch into a 40 yard gain... I get that he can catch a bomb 2-3x per year, but he should have a 20-40 yard catch and run every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Is this an off season joke? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 To be fair, he's improved as a intermediate route runner. He'd be open a lot on come back routes and TT consistently threw it to an imaginary Dez Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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