The Deep State War Heats Up :ph34r:

[Hedge]

1 hour ago, GG said:

Your explanation doesn't differ too much from Comey and CO's rationale against Trump. 

 

Take a step back and read it from a deferential angle.  

 

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, actual corruption (Biden) vs manufactured corruption (Russia Gate) is a significant difference.

[GG]

6 minutes ago, Hedge said:

 

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, actual corruption (Biden) vs manufactured corruption (Russia Gate) is a significant difference.

 

That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues.  

 

The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival.  

[DC Tom]

38 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues.  

 

The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival.  

 

Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now.

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now.

 

It’s one thing to troll (great use of presidential power), it’s another thing to actually do it. Grotesque even for Trump. It’s what we get with an impulsive man-child in office. Only wish the Ds were offering a decent alternative. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by John Adams

[snafu]

3 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Which, given Trump's history of uber-trolling, makes me wonder if this isn't another setup to get Democrats to decry that which they've supported up to now.

 

Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. 

 

 

 

[DC Tom]

17 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. 

 

 

 

 

Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?"

[John Adams]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?"

 

"They did it, so can I" is not the right way to lead and govern. It's Trumpian way though.  

[DC Tom]

2 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

"They did it, so can I" is not the right way to lead and govern. It's Trumpian way though.  

 

And the Obama way, and the Bush way...

 

Pretending this bull#### is unique to the Candied Yam in Chief is disingenuous. 

[John Adams]

3 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

And the Obama way, and the Bush way...

 

Pretending this bull#### is unique to the Candied Yam in Chief is disingenuous. 

 

Outside of GG, most here (ignoring Tibs...because) aren't criticizing it and some love it. 

[Deranged Rhino]

6 hours ago, GG said:

The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival.  

 

I understand what you're saying, and in normal times I would say your point is strong. But these aren't normal times by any definition. Take my personal opinions on the coup out of the picture for the moment and focus just on the speed in which the media/news cycle moves. Things which in the very recent past would live on in the country's memory as major moments are gone/replaced within weeks -- if not days or even hours. Trump knows he can take this jab and not only survive, but use it to set up a counter-punch because of the looming IG report which is (finally) about to be unleashed. 

 

Even if the IG report only lays out the facts, without referrals for indictments, as a political weapon the damage that is about to be done to his opposing party is going to wipe this story from the news cycle and collective memory of the public. Even if the topic does return to the Ukraine, the focus will be on Clinton/Obama/Biden and what they were up to -- not Trump asking the Ukrainians to look into the very corruption which Horowitz will lay out for the whole country to see.  

 

Trump is baiting the hook with this -- either by folly or by design. And it's already working.

 

4 hours ago, John Adams said:

 

It’s one thing to troll (great use of presidential power), it’s another thing to actually do it. Grotesque even for Trump. 

 

Going with the theme -- if these were normal times, I'd agree with you. 

 

But these aren't normal times. The President of the United States just survived a 3 year attempted coup which played out in plain sight of the public and the media completely ignored or ridiculed/downplayed. There's no honest messenger or mechanism which presents information in a non biased way anymore. And sure, maybe there never was such an objective mechanism in the past but there was the appearance of one. 

 

Trump's use of twitter, as grotesque as it may be to the social norms of our politics past, is his only way to "steer" the media. Because whatever he tweets, they'll cover. Even to ridicule it. And the more "trollish" the tweet, the bigger the coverage. Grotesque or not, it's become one of his most potent political weapons -- and draws a ton of attention to topics which otherwise would get ignored. 

 

...Like Biden and the Ukraine. Biden and China.

 

Hate the game, not the player. Politics is a contact sport.

 

1 hour ago, snafu said:

Actually, also a setup to get the press to talk about Biden’s corruption — which was largely ignored or brushed aside up until this week. 

 

100% 

 

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

Not just that...but what other stories might relate to "using government resources to target a political opponent?"

 

Bingo. 

 

This is about drawing attention to that exact abuse right before the FISA report drops and Horowitz appears before the Senate. This accomplishes many goals at once, but mostly it generates a national conversation in the media about the 2020 election and abusing power to go after a rival right before a damning report about that very same abuse being done in 2016 drops. The last news cycle and the next several coming up will undoubtedly provide a ton of opportunities to clip segments from talk shows, news reports, and campaign speeches and use them in 2020 Trump campaign spots highlighting the hypocrisy. 

 

He's letting them dig their own graves in public, and will cash in on it come 2020's campaign blitz. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 hours ago, GG said:

 

That is beside the point, and Biden’s will get their dues.  

 

The appearance right now is more important, and it certainly looks like Trump is using Federal resources to investigate a political rival.  

 

About damned time. His political opponents have been using federal resources to try and remove him from office since before he started. 

[3rdnlng]

4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

About damned time. His political opponents have been using federal resources to try and remove him from office since before he started. 

Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

10 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy.

 

Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society.

 

They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within.

 

[3rdnlng]

11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society.

 

They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within.

 

Fight fire with water, not more fire.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Fight fire with water, not more fire.

 

Sometimes fire IS used to fight fire.

 

And explosives, to boot.

 

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because the left is THE threat to the continued existence of our society.

 

They will, if given the opportunity, destroy us from within.

 

i suspect we are already destroyed. we just don't see it it in full focus yet.

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said:

Horseshit! Trump asking a foreign government to investigate something they already should have investigated is perfectly ok and is nothing like what the dems and media tried to do to Trump. Regardless, why do you always want to usurp our constitution and suggest one illegal action deserves another illegal action? The only way to continue enjoying our republic is to adhere to and enforce others to adhere to our constitution, not go all in on anarchy.

 

Your point is mine as well. We agree: Now examining my entire life. 

 

What Comey and others did was terrible and if a case can be made, it should be. But what Trump did is terrible, and makes the US seem like a South American puppet country. 

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

i suspect we are already destroyed. we just don't see it it in full focus yet.

 

DOOOOOOOOOOMed

 

At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by John Adams

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, John Adams said:

... DOOOOOOOOOOMed

 

At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. 

when one half of the country hates the other half, crumbling like a block wall with badly mixed mortar is inevitable.  yes, i blame the main stream prostitutes.

[3rdnlng]

24 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

Your point is mine as well. We agree: Now examining my entire life. 

 

What Comey and others did was terrible and if a case can be made, it should be. But what Trump did is terrible, and makes the US seem like a South American puppet country. 

 

DOOOOOOOOOOMed

 

At some point, maybe 330 million Americans will realize how great our lives are instead of manufacturing all this discord. Heartbreaking to see. 

What did Trump do that was proven terrible? The only information you have is speculation, and we know how that has worked out over the last 3 years.

[John Adams]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

What did Trump do that was proven terrible? The only information you have is speculation, and we know how that has worked out over the last 3 years.

I’ll ignore his attorney’s admission and ask this: *If* he asked another country’s president to investigate the Dem frontrunner, would you call for impeachment? Censure? Fair game for a Republican feeding frenzy and remove him as nominee?

[3rdnlng]

16 minutes ago, John Adams said:

I’ll ignore his attorney’s admission and ask this: *If* he asked another country’s president to investigate the Dem frontrunner, would you call for impeachment? Censure? Fair game for a Republican feeding frenzy and remove him as nominee?

So, anyone running for office is immune to investigation? There's a mile of difference between asking someone to investigate very suspicious happenings vs asking someone to investigate for pure political reasons that are out of the blue.

[John Adams]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

So, anyone running for office is immune to investigation? There's a mile of difference between asking someone to investigate very suspicious happenings vs asking someone to investigate for pure political reasons that are out of the blue.

 

Nothing on Biden is new. But he had the call WITH A PRESIDENT OF ANOTHER COUNTRY a few months after Biden declared his candidacy. Your MAGA glasses don't allow you to put country before Trump. You're an icon-worshipper. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Still doesn’t get it. 

 

And he never will because he won’t admit when he’s wrong (all 17 intel agencies as an example) nor will he ever stop and think for himself. 

 

Sad. 

[3rdnlng]

43 minutes ago, John Adams said:

 

Nothing on Biden is new. But he had the call WITH A PRESIDENT OF ANOTHER COUNTRY a few months after Biden declared his candidacy. Your MAGA glasses don't allow you to put country before Trump. You're an icon-worshipper. 

The Ukrainian president wasn't inaugurated until 5-21-19. Sorta debunks your theory, eh?

[John Adams]

3 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

The Ukrainian president wasn't inaugurated until 5-21-19. Sorta debunks your theory, eh?

I called him “elect” earlier so no. 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I know you are but what am I is not any more effective than it was in first grade DR. 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, John Adams said:

I know you are but what am I is not any more effective than it was in first grade DR. 

 

It is when it illustrates that the outrage is not principled, but political.

[John Adams]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

It is when it illustrates that the outrage is not principled, but political.

That point is straight from Captain Obvious’s billboard. 
 

The politics of this are less important than what happened. 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, John Adams said:

That point is straight from Captain Obvious’s billboard. 

 

Then why did I have to make it?

 

Rhetorical question: I made it because you denied it.  

 

2 minutes ago, John Adams said:

The politics of this are less important than what happened. 

 

  Literally no one is treating this story as such.  It's literally "But THIS time it's a problem!"

 

That's people treating the politics of this as more important than what happened. 

[3rdnlng]

3 hours ago, John Adams said:

I called him “elect” earlier so no. 

You're the master of weakshit arguments. Supposedly Trump's call was in July of 2019.

[John Adams]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Then why did I have to make it?

 

Rhetorical question: I made it because you denied it.  

 

 

  Literally no one is treating this story as such.  It's literally "But THIS time it's a problem!"

 

That's people treating the politics of this as more important than what happened. 

We spent the last two years talking about the abuse of power of the intel community. Are you not reading this board? Jesus. 
 

And to help you out, the topic on the table in this moment is Trump as also part of the problem. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by John Adams

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

More on this: 

 

 

 

 

OH... gee

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

More to the thread, posting this segment for the last vid

 

What that last clip means: 

 

That's called rigging the system. 

 

Or breaking the law. 

 

And it's all on record.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

This also belongs here. A sign of progress, breaking free from the IC/Media controlled narratives is nothing but a positive for the future of our country/planet

 

 

 

[keepthefaith]

34 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

More to the thread, posting this segment for the last vid

 

What that last clip means: 

 

That's called rigging the system. 

 

Or breaking the law. 

 

And it's all on record.

 

But is it breaking the law?  Leaking to media and then using a media report as evidence to support probable cause.  Illegal or just a bad practice or shoddy work?

 

My growing concern over the surveillance and other dirty tactics that were deployed against the Trump campaign is that in the end so many people were involved, each in a small role, that individual crimes will not be found or will be very difficult to prosecute.  Rather the outcome might just be that people are guilty of bad individual job behavior.  They acted somewhat within the scope of their jobs but did not commit actual crimes.  If nobody is prosecuted, it's a rubber stamp for similar tactics to be used again. 

[Deranged Rhino]

12 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

But is it breaking the law?  Leaking to media and then using a media report as evidence to support probable cause.  Illegal or just a bad practice or shoddy work?

 

If it's not breaking the law explicitly -- it should be. And shows the need for reform to the FISC/FISA procedures. 

 

That's always been a needed step in the cleanup process. Not just exposing the people behind the coup, but working to adjust the rules and regulations overseeing the secret court to prevent this kind of abuse. It seems with this hearing we're creeping towards that conversation. 

 

12 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

My growing concern over the surveillance and other dirty tactics that were deployed against the Trump campaign is that in the end so many people were involved, each in a small role, that individual crimes will not be found or will be very difficult to prosecute.  Rather the outcome might just be that people are guilty of bad individual job behavior.  They acted somewhat within the scope of their jobs but did not commit actual crimes.  If nobody is prosecuted, it's a rubber stamp for similar tactics to be used again. 

 

It's a rational concern to hold. One I share. 

 

That's why we need the above reforms in combination with indictments. If we don't get the latter, we certainly need the former. At least if we get that, we'll be fixing a problem on some level. 

 

If they don't indict anyone or change the rules/regs, then we're truly ***** and no longer live in a republic. 

 

Which puts it on us, the people, to make that right. And that will get very ugly very fast.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Deranged Rhino
typo/clarity

[3rdnlng]

43 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

But is it breaking the law?  Leaking to media and then using a media report as evidence to support probable cause.  Illegal or just a bad practice or shoddy work?

 

My growing concern over the surveillance and other dirty tactics that were deployed against the Trump campaign is that in the end so many people were involved, each in a small role, that individual crimes will not be found or will be very difficult to prosecute.  Rather the outcome might just be that people are guilty of bad individual job behavior.  They acted somewhat within the scope of their jobs but did not commit actual crimes.  If nobody is prosecuted, it's a rubber stamp for similar tactics to be used again. 

It is illegal to misrepresent evidence to a FISA court.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

Not posting for the breitbart article but the second tweet/subject. 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just a coincidence, I'm sure. 

 

 

(for the record, Theranos is part of the club)