The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Since Earl Thomas has been out of the Seahawks lineup, their pass defense has had a 30th ranked DVOA. https://twitter.com/SheilKapadia/status/816689221595439105 Over that span, the team has finished 3-3, with their only wins coming against opponents who finished a combined 12-36 (SF, CAR, LA). Rex Ryan was rightly relieved of his duties. This thread isn't intended to debate that. But it must be said since noting these things will (as always) be misconstrued as a support for him and his defense. Aaron Williams is no Earl Thomas. But he's a very good player. And two straight years, the defense took a nosedive with him out of the lineup. Incredibly, this point will be debated here. Why, I'm not sure. But as we continue to wring our hands about who the next HC is going to be and as so long as the stitch and B word over the GM's mic presence is the topic du jour, let's try and keep perspective on what it is that wins football games. Yes, coaches are responsible for preparing their players and "setting the cultural tone." But once the whistle blows, it's up to the players to play the game. Just your friendly reminder. I thought I'd get ahead of it now, approximately 10 months before a certain fan fringe is calling for the new coach's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The First Rule of Fight Club: No matter what you say in your initial post, the conversation will turn to Rex and Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Since Earl Thomas has been out of the Seahawks lineup, their pass defense has had a 30th ranked DVOA. https://twitter.com/SheilKapadia/status/816689221595439105 Over that span, the team has finished 3-3, with their only wins coming against opponents who finished a combined 12-36 (SF, CAR, LA). Rex Ryan was rightly relieved of his duties. This thread isn't intended to debate that. But it must be said since noting these things will (as always) be misconstrued as a support for him and his defense. Aaron Williams is no Earl Thomas. But he's a very good player. And two straight years, the defense took a nosedive with him out of the lineup. Incredibly, this point will be debated here. Why, I'm not sure. But as we continue to wring our hands about who the next HC is going to be and as so long as the stitch and B word over the GM's mic presence is the topic du jour, let's try and keep perspective on what it is that wins football games. Yes, coaches are responsible for preparing their players and "setting the cultural tone." But once the whistle blows, it's up to the players to play the game. Just your friendly reminder. I thought I'd get ahead of it now, approximately 10 months before a certain fan fringe is calling for the new coach's head. I believe we will be in the market for top safeties during the Draft. And, with Adams, Hooker , Baker we should be able to come up with one. After that, I'd love Mike Williams or Corey Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Since Earl Thomas has been out of the Seahawks lineup, their pass defense has had a 30th ranked DVOA. https://twitter.com/SheilKapadia/status/816689221595439105 Over that span, the team has finished 3-3, with their only wins coming against opponents who finished a combined 12-36 (SF, CAR, LA). Rex Ryan was rightly relieved of his duties. This thread isn't intended to debate that. But it must be said since noting these things will (as always) be misconstrued as a support for him and his defense. Aaron Williams is no Earl Thomas. But he's a very good player. And two straight years, the defense took a nosedive with him out of the lineup. Incredibly, this point will be debated here. Why, I'm not sure. But as we continue to wring our hands about who the next HC is going to be and as so long as the stitch and B word over the GM's mic presence is the topic du jour, let's try and keep perspective on what it is that wins football games. Yes, coaches are responsible for preparing their players and "setting the cultural tone." But once the whistle blows, it's up to the players to play the game. Just your friendly reminder. I thought I'd get ahead of it now, approximately 10 months before a certain fan fringe is calling for the new coach's head. I agree. We need a good safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 I agree. We need a good safety players. No need to be so specific. But, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Interesting...but I'm pretty sure this just another LAMP thread (one of many) about how a good safety has a big impact on the play of the defense. Just a tip. Be original. Start a Whaley thread so that everyone knows how YOU feel about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 I agree that safety became a glaring issue after Williams went down. On the other hand, can't blame this for runners being able to turn the corner without opposition whenever they wanted. I've always thought that you can scheme run defense. Rex couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Again, the point here is not about Earl Thomas, or Aaron Williams, or safeties in general. It's about the impact that players make. There is a prevailing sentiment here that coaches make the players. I have been making the case for a decade that the opposite is true. FWIW: Pre Earl Thomas injury record: 7-2-1, pre-injury pass DVOA: 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 And we need a player at safety that will make plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Again, the point here is not about Earl Thomas, or Aaron Williams, or safeties in general. It's about the impact that players make. There is a prevailing sentiment here that coaches make the players. I have been making the case for a decade that the opposite is true. FWIW: Pre Earl Thomas injury record: 7-2-1, pre-injury pass DVOA: 5 Coaches make players better, but without the talent as a foundation, coaching can only go so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Safety is a big issue with our team.......we need to find a Aaron Williams type player minus the hold your breath that he will get up on every play..... Our safety play was SOOO BADDDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Coaches make players better, but without the talent as a foundation, coaching can only go so far. Exactly, and this is a perfect illustration of that. I'd imagine Pete Carroll is pretty high on the list of current NFL HC's who get the most of their players. Yet when just one of them is taken out of the equation, the whole thing falters tremendously. Again, this is not a Rex thread nor is this an argument on his behalf, but during the season he was lambasted for not having the kind of defense that Seattle does when it was plainly obvious that he didn't have the kind of defensive talent that Seattle has. Would our talent have been better under Carroll? Yes, but only marginally. Would his be worse under Rex? May be, but only marginally. In fact, the personalities on that team seem to be the kind that would thrive under Rex, but I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Aaron Williams was a major injury risk heading into this season and the GM did very little to plan for his inevitable departure. Yes the Bills were unlucky with 6 safeties ending up on IR, but other than AW, none of those players were any good. IMO we also saw the decline of Corey Graham this year and he shouldn't have been counted on, either. His body is done, he can't run anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Aaron Williams was a major injury risk heading into this season and the GM did very little to plan for his inevitable departure. Yes the Bills were unlucky with 6 safeties ending up on IR, but other than AW, none of those players were any good. IMO we also saw the decline of Corey Graham this year and he shouldn't have been counted on, either. His body is done, he can't run anymore. Corey Graham was a major issue last year, too. Or, from a different perspective: he's not good enough to not be paired with Aaron Williams. I too have complained that not enough was done in the offseason, but the point has been raised: what else was out there/available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Corey Graham was a major issue last year, too. Or, from a different perspective: he's not good enough to not be paired with Aaron Williams. I too have complained that not enough was done in the offseason, but the point has been raised: what else was out there/available? Rodney McLeod Eric Wheddle Mark Barron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Since Earl Thomas has been out of the Seahawks lineup, their pass defense has had a 30th ranked DVOA. https://twitter.com/SheilKapadia/status/816689221595439105 Over that span, the team has finished 3-3, with their only wins coming against opponents who finished a combined 12-36 (SF, CAR, LA). Aaron Williams is no Earl Thomas. But he's a very good player. And two straight years, the defense took a nosedive with him out of the lineup. Incredibly, this point will be debated here. Why, I'm not sure. But as we continue to wring our hands about who the next HC is going to be and as so long as the stitch and B word over the GM's mic presence is the topic du jour, let's try and keep some perspective on what wins football games - I was thinking about this while watching the Lions-Packers game. GB was already down two CB with knee injuries, then Quinten Rollins was carted off. I thought they were gonna be starting a WR at CB by the end of the game. They won, and only partly because Aaron Rodgers can somehow hold the ball for almost 9 seconds, run around the backfield like a cat at a pit bull convention, then throw a laser-guided missile. GB's D stepped up and shut down the Lions. I think some defenses are designed to adapt to personnel, and some require certain key players. I think historically, Rex's Ds have required a key LB and a key safety and when he lacks those, it all falls apart. I don't think a D that requires specific key players at specific positions is sustainable today in the NFL. Too many injuries. And if that describes the Seattle D under Kris Richard, then I hope the talk we've been looking at him is wrong. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Good topic. This has been discussed elsewhere but it's worth renewing the discussion. The Bills need safety help. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/191077-the-jim-leonhard-of-rexs-bills-defenses/ http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/191122-the-case-against-gus-bradley-for-dc/page-2?do=findComment&comment=4188201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 One thing about the defence as well is they just could not make tackles. They were in the right position a alot of the times but just couldn't make the play. Is bad tackling Rex's fault? Maybe a little bit on teaching technique. But these guys are professionals and should know how to tackle But yes I do agree with your point, I didn't mean to get off topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The First Rule of Fight Club: No matter what you say in your initial post, the conversation will turn to Rex and Tyrod. Like this... "But if Tyrod threw more TDS's Rex's defense wouldn't need Arron Williams". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) I agree because Rex's Defense is heavily reliant on DB play. However, it is also supposed to be such a great scheme it can overcome deficient talent. If it can't, then he also failed to adjust and put his players in position to succeed. Bottom line, letting him go was the best move. I just hope the next few moves help us. HC and drafting a QB, Safety and WR and on and on and on . . . Edited January 4, 2017 by Never NEVER Give-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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