loveorhatembillsfan4life Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hey Guys, I was thinking about the signs pointing to Lynn remaining head coach. It got me thinking, If Whaley is to run the search, and the new coach is to be Whaley's call. Let's say in no uncertain terms that Whaley's job security (last shot) will be tied to the success or failure of this coach, Is it in Whaley's best interest to go with Lynn? On one hand, keeping Lynn keeps the continuity of his offensive scheme, Lynn probably will be his yes man and not demand more power. He did get some coaching interest last year and by all accounts will get some interest this year. But is this truly a coaching search leaving no stone unturned if Doug already knows who the guy is going to be. Can Doug afford to gamble on Anthony Lynn with his job? Would you gamble with Lynn with your job? Can he sell us on choosing Lynn over a Kyle Shanahan who is also a hot candidate ? On the other hand, would Doug be willing be to hire a coach with a pedigree? Does Doug rule out someone who is more proven with experience like Tom C. just because he would want more power than Doug is willing to cede. I guess right now the state of the Bills scare the hell out of me. I can't say I follow the Sabres but I really think we truly have some good owners who are more than committed to bring us a winner. I also think they will spend the money when needed. But its the power players in their ears at OBD are the ones I worry about it. The fact they didn't clean house worries me just a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billschinatown Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Evil Doug WHALEY!!! BURN HIM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Was it Anthony Lynn's scheme or was it Romans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hey Guys, I was thinking about the signs pointing to Lynn remaining head coach. It got me thinking, If Whaley is to run the search, and the new coach is to be Whaley's call. Let's say in no uncertain terms that Whaley's job security (last shot) will be tied to the success or failure of this coach, Is it in Whaley's best interest to go with Lynn? On one hand, keeping Lynn keeps the continuity of his offensive scheme, Lynn probably will be his yes man and not demand more power. He did get some coaching interest last year and by all accounts will get some interest this year. But is this truly a coaching search leaving no stone unturned if Doug already knows who the guy is going to be. Can Doug afford to gamble on Anthony Lynn with his job? Would you gamble with Lynn with your job? Can he sell us on choosing Lynn over a Kyle Shanahan who is also a hot candidate ? On the other hand, would Doug be willing be to hire a coach with a pedigree? Does Doug rule out someone who is more proven with experience like Tom C. just because he would want more power than Doug is willing to cede. I guess right now the state of the Bills scare the hell out of me. I can't say I follow the Sabres but I really think we truly have some good owners who are more than committed to bring us a winner. I also think they will spend the money when needed. But its the power players in their ears at OBD are the ones I worry about it. The fact they didn't clean house worries me just a little. The issue is who would want the job at this point. Top candidates would rather go elsewhere or wait for better openings, rather than take a job with a GM who in the media is being portrayed as being on a bit of a power trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hey Guys, I was thinking about the signs pointing to Lynn remaining head coach. It got me thinking, If Whaley is to run the search, and the new coach is to be Whaley's call. Let's say in no uncertain terms that Whaley's job security (last shot) will be tied to the success or failure of this coach, Is it in Whaley's best interest to go with Lynn? On one hand, keeping Lynn keeps the continuity of his offensive scheme, Lynn probably will be his yes man and not demand more power. He did get some coaching interest last year and by all accounts will get some interest this year. But is this truly a coaching search leaving no stone unturned if Doug already knows who the guy is going to be. Can Doug afford to gamble on Anthony Lynn with his job? Would you gamble with Lynn with your job? Can he sell us on choosing Lynn over a Kyle Shanahan who is also a hot candidate ? On the other hand, would Doug be willing be to hire a coach with a pedigree? Does Doug rule out someone who is more proven with experience like Tom C. just because he would want more power than Doug is willing to cede. I guess right now the state of the Bills scare the hell out of me. I can't say I follow the Sabres but I really think we truly have some good owners who are more than committed to bring us a winner. I also think they will spend the money when needed. But its the power players in their ears at OBD are the ones I worry about it. The fact they didn't clean house worries me just a little. Lynn and Whaley. I guess Lynn may not be the type of guy that wants an agenda shoved. I might guess even though Lynn wants become a HC, he is smart enough to make his first go a reasonable chance for success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hey Guys, I was thinking about the signs pointing to Lynn remaining head coach. It got me thinking, If Whaley is to run the search, and the new coach is to be Whaley's call. Let's say in no uncertain terms that Whaley's job security (last shot) will be tied to the success or failure of this coach, Is it in Whaley's best interest to go with Lynn? On one hand, keeping Lynn keeps the continuity of his offensive scheme, Lynn probably will be his yes man and not demand more power. He did get some coaching interest last year and by all accounts will get some interest this year. But is this truly a coaching search leaving no stone unturned if Doug already knows who the guy is going to be. Can Doug afford to gamble on Anthony Lynn with his job? Would you gamble with Lynn with your job? Can he sell us on choosing Lynn over a Kyle Shanahan who is also a hot candidate ? On the other hand, would Doug be willing be to hire a coach with a pedigree? Does Doug rule out someone who is more proven with experience like Tom C. just because he would want more power than Doug is willing to cede. I guess right now the state of the Bills scare the hell out of me. I can't say I follow the Sabres but I really think we truly have some good owners who are more than committed to bring us a winner. I also think they will spend the money when needed. But its the power players in their ears at OBD are the ones I worry about it. The fact they didn't clean house worries me just a little. I agree with all this and if Whaley is smart he goes with the best coach. I read on Bleacher Report That Whaley doesn't want to give ANY control of the roster up to a HC and said that Josh McDaniels would love this job but would want some say about the roster. The same with Coughlin, Shanahan and others so it looks like most of the good candidates wont be coming here and we will be bottoming out for sure (which could be Pegs plan all along, but you cant tank in football so ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by.I agree with this. I think people are assuming that the HC will report to Whaley instead of Pegula this time around but that hasn't been established yet. But at the same time isn't that the structure most people want to see? As far as "power" I suppose that refers to the fact he wants to control the 53. But there are only a handful of GMs in the league who do not control the 53 and that is because the HC is in a dual FO role like Carroll or has earned it like Belichik, Reid. Bill O'Brien was handed the 53 upon hire as a first time HC and I found that odd. I don't think controlling the 53 as a GM is some power hungry move. If it refers to Whaley influencing Pegula to fire Rex, aren't most people glad that he did? Did we need another year just to say he got another year? Things were getting worse, not better. The benefit of the doubt that he might learn from the mistakes he made in his last few years in NJ was gone. Whaley never wanted Rex per the link below (according to Rex) and that is a relationship destined to fail. Pegula letting him lead the search shows that he trusts he will recommend a guy who he think he can be successful with - which is one of the most important steps toward winning. A HC/GM rift is indeed "toxic" as Carucci calls it and almost always leads to a team not succeeding. That said, it has not been established that Whaley has the final decision on the hire nor that the coach will report to him. http://billsfanaticsbf.com/home/rex-ryan-s-reaction-bills-fanatics-insiders-get-inside-scoop Edited December 31, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I agree with this. I think people are assuming that the HC will report to Whaley instead of Pegula this time around but that hasn't been established yet. But at the same time isn't that the structure most people want to see? As far as "power" I suppose that refers to the fact he wants to control the 53. But there are only a handful of GMs in the league who do not control the 53 and that is because the HC is in a dual FO role like Carroll or has earned it like Belichik, Reid. Bill O'Brien was handed the 53 upon hire as a first time HC and I found that odd. I don't think controlling the 53 as a GM is some power hungry move. If it refers to Whaley influencing Pegula to fire Rex, aren't most people glad that he did? Did we need another year just to say he got another year? Things were getting worse, not better. The benefit of the doubt that he might learn from the mistakes he made in his last few years in NJ was gone. Whaley never wanted Rex per the link below (according to Rex) and that is a relationship destined to fail. Pegula letting him lead the search shows that he trusts he will recommend a guy who he think he can be successful with - which is one of the most important steps toward winning. A HC/GM rift is indeed "toxic" as Carucci calls it and almost always leads to a team not succeeding. That said, it has not been established that Whaley has the final decision on the hire nor that the coach will report to him.http://billsfanaticsbf.com/home/rex-ryan-s-reaction-bills-fanatics-insiders-get-inside-scoop wow! Is that being discussed elsewhere? The point at the end, that Lynn is the person to lead the team in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 wow! Is that being discussed elsewhere? The point at the end, that Lynn is the person to lead the team in 2017.i think it was posted in the pinned mega thread about Rex being fired ... this twitter account has had some good info in the past (Ed Reed hire, Shaq surgery, Sammy to IR) before others so I tend to give it some credibility but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 i think it was posted in the pinned mega thread about Rex being fired ... this twitter account has had some good info in the past (Ed Reed hire, Shaq surgery, Sammy to IR) before others so I tend to give it some credibility but you never know.i think the odds favor him given whaleys praise. However, I could see the possibility of coughlin coming in for 2 years and retaining Lynn as the OC with an implicit promise it's his job after that. Kind of what they did when Wade came to buffalo as D.C. And took over when Marv retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Every time I see Marv and Wade's names linked, I get depressed thinking about what might have been if Wade was the DC during those SB years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hey Guys, I was thinking about the signs pointing to Lynn remaining head coach. It got me thinking, If Whaley is to run the search, and the new coach is to be Whaley's call. Let's say in no uncertain terms that Whaley's job security (last shot) will be tied to the success or failure of this coach, Is it in Whaley's best interest to go with Lynn? On one hand, keeping Lynn keeps the continuity of his offensive scheme, Lynn probably will be his yes man and not demand more power. He did get some coaching interest last year and by all accounts will get some interest this year. But is this truly a coaching search leaving no stone unturned if Doug already knows who the guy is going to be. Can Doug afford to gamble on Anthony Lynn with his job? Would you gamble with Lynn with your job? Can he sell us on choosing Lynn over a Kyle Shanahan who is also a hot candidate ? On the other hand, would Doug be willing be to hire a coach with a pedigree? Does Doug rule out someone who is more proven with experience like Tom C. just because he would want more power than Doug is willing to cede. I guess right now the state of the Bills scare the hell out of me. I can't say I follow the Sabres but I really think we truly have some good owners who are more than committed to bring us a winner. I also think they will spend the money when needed. But its the power players in their ears at OBD are the ones I worry about it. The fact they didn't clean house worries me just a little. It is a big gamble no matter who ends up being head coach. I think Whaley will recommend whoever he thinks will get the Bills to the playoffs the fastest that also doesn't demand Whaley relinquish much control. My opinion is that it ends up being Lynn at head coach or some other coach who wants to try to win with Tyrod. I say that because, if they move on from Tyrod and go with a rookie, Whaley is smart enough to know that is going to very likely take more than one year (probably several years) to get to the playoffs with. And missing the playoffs 2 more years in a row will get Whaley fired. The most likely scenario I see happening is the Bills signing the most experienced coach they can find who convinces them he can build a winning team using the existing core offensive and defensive personnel already here. That best guy to convince them of that might end up being Lynn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I agree with this. I think people are assuming that the HC will report to Whaley instead of Pegula this time around but that hasn't been established yet. But at the same time isn't that the structure most people want to see? As far as "power" I suppose that refers to the fact he wants to control the 53. But there are only a handful of GMs in the league who do not control the 53 and that is because the HC is in a dual FO role like Carroll or has earned it like Belichik, Reid. Bill O'Brien was handed the 53 upon hire as a first time HC and I found that odd. I don't think controlling the 53 as a GM is some power hungry move. If it refers to Whaley influencing Pegula to fire Rex, aren't most people glad that he did? Did we need another year just to say he got another year? Things were getting worse, not better. The benefit of the doubt that he might learn from the mistakes he made in his last few years in NJ was gone. Whaley never wanted Rex per the link below (according to Rex) and that is a relationship destined to fail. Pegula letting him lead the search shows that he trusts he will recommend a guy who he think he can be successful with - which is one of the most important steps toward winning. A HC/GM rift is indeed "toxic" as Carucci calls it and almost always leads to a team not succeeding. That said, it has not been established that Whaley has the final decision on the hire nor that the coach will report to him. http://billsfanaticsbf.com/home/rex-ryan-s-reaction-bills-fanatics-insiders-get-inside-scoop That is a stretch, the writer is confusing coaching with actually hiring. Whaley KNEW Rex was the one and is on record as saying so. All this BS of distancing Whaley from any bad decisions is nonsense. Whaley is responsible for this mess and I doubt he will lead us out as his track record has proven thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) That is a stretch, the writer is confusing coaching with actually hiring. Whaley KNEW Rex was the one and is on record as saying so. All this BS of distancing Whaley from any bad decisions is nonsense. Whaley is responsible for this mess and I doubt he will lead us out as his track record has proven thus far. Rex or the Rex source is who said he didn't think Whaley ever wanted him. It's not coming from Whaley's camp. Edited December 31, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by. Yes, This. I'm also curious of the trope going around that no HC would want this job because Whaley will be viewed as he is being portrayed in the media, as "toxic" or "on a powertrip" First, I think any HC candidate worthy of the hire is going to be highly skeptical of media coverage. The HC needs to be aware that the media is always looking for "clicks and controversy" and they need to be willing to count the legs of the horse for themselves before they buy it - don't rely on the media's portrayal as either a 3-legged beast or Sleipnir. Anyone who's put off by LaCanfora and Schefter tweets is a weak stick we're better off without. Second, most of the GMs in the league have control over player personnel and the HC often reports to them. The few that don't have either earned it (Belichick, Carroll) or have screwed the pooch with it (McDaniel, Chip Kelly). If McDaniel expects to get player personnel control from Day 1 on his next HC gig, he may find teams willing to believe he's learned how to better coach and manage people from his last HC gig, but reluctant to totally turn over the keys. Third, there are only 32 of these jobs in the world and only a handful that come open each year. Even in Cleveland, where the situation was a mess - Shurmur got 2 years, Chudzinski 1 year, Pettine 2 years - they still had candidates lining up for the round of interviews that resulted in hiring Hue Jackson. You gotta realize that no matter how well-spoken and generally grounded a guy may seem, every single one of the candidates who aspires to be an NFL head coach has got a super-size ego. He knows he can be "the Man", he can do it better, he can succeed where others have failed. He has drive and determination. Otherwise he'd be content to stay down in the trenches as an assistant and let someone else draw the fire. Edited December 31, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by. two things- his job security concern might be precisely why he wants strict control of the roster. his roster to sink or swim with. however to say that this position will not limit coaching candidates is not fair. it will severely limit the candidates who will consider the bills. the biggest question is does he have the capacity to properly select a good coach. does he have any forward vision to be able to predict a prospect's growth potential if he doesn't have any head coaching experience? does he have any instincts or intuition that will help? has he drawn up a rigorous set of requirements and a priority based decision analysis matrix? Edited December 31, 2016 by jethro_tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 That is a stretch, the writer is confusing coaching with actually hiring. Whaley KNEW Rex was the one and is on record as saying so. All this BS of distancing Whaley from any bad decisions is nonsense. Whaley is responsible for this mess and I doubt he will lead us out as his track record has proven thus far. Barbarian, where do you get that from? What I have seen on the record, is Whaley quoted as advising the Pegulas that when they interviewed the guy who was the right coach for them, they'd know, using the analogy of his time as a single man and asking married men how you know what woman you want to marry. The inference would be when the Pegulas interviewed Rex, they "just knew" he was the right guy, but not necessarily that Whaley felt the same way. He may have, he may not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Barbarian, where do you get that from? What I have seen on the record, is Whaley quoted as advising the Pegulas that when they interviewed the guy who was the right coach for them, they'd know, using the analogy of his time as a single man and asking married men how you know what woman you want to marry. The inference would be when the Pegulas interviewed Rex, they "just knew" he was the right guy, but not necessarily that Whaley felt the same way. He may have, he may not have. No it was Whaley explaining to Kim that you just know and they knew it was Rex. It's already been posted on here before this week and I'm not in the mood to look it up. Bottom line Whaley is responsible for the roster and the coach and so far he has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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