Lynn and Whaley

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I agree with this. I think people are assuming that the HC will report to Whaley instead of Pegula this time around but that hasn't been established yet. But at the same time isn't that the structure most people want to see? As far as "power" I suppose that refers to the fact he wants to control the 53. But there are only a handful of GMs in the league who do not control the 53 and that is because the HC is in a dual FO role like Carroll or has earned it like Belichik, Reid. Bill O'Brien was handed the 53 upon hire as a first time HC and I found that odd. I don't think controlling the 53 as a GM is some power hungry move. If it refers to Whaley influencing Pegula to fire Rex, aren't most people glad that he did? Did we need another year just to say he got another year? Things were getting worse, not better. The benefit of the doubt that he might learn from the mistakes he made in his last few years in NJ was gone.

 

Whaley never wanted Rex per the link below (according to Rex) and that is a relationship destined to fail. Pegula letting him lead the search shows that he trusts he will recommend a guy who he think he can be successful with - which is one of the most important steps toward winning. A HC/GM rift is indeed "toxic" as Carucci calls it and almost always leads to a team not succeeding. That said, it has not been established that Whaley has the final decision on the hire nor that the coach will report to him.

 

http://billsfanaticsbf.com/home/rex-ryan-s-reaction-bills-fanatics-insiders-get-inside-scoop

 

This is pretty strong stuff. Good find, Yolo.

 

A couple points that struck me.

"Rex basically confirmed this as he said he did feel Whaley wasn’t too happy with him coaching the team. Ryan went on to say he and Whaley were not on the same page during his two years in Buffalo. "

 

Rex is on the record saying "he's not a scheme guy, he's a football guy" and he wasn't going to run a 3-4 or a 4-3, he was going to run the scheme that best fit the players. Perhaps Rex honestly believed this. It's a reasonable guess that he said similar things to Whaley during the interview, along with committing to developing EJ Manuel as a QB and to asking Schwartz to stay. But when the cleats met the Astroturf, it must have quickly become apparent to Whaley that it was all hot air and hassenpfeffer

-Schwartz was only asked to stay (if he was) in a way that guaranteed he would refuse, ie being told what scheme to run, not guaranteed he'd be treated as an autonomous DC

-From the moment Taylor was brought in, folks with connections were saying Rex favored him and he was going to be the next quarterback. While EJ was 'evaluated' over the summer, it's a matter of debate if he was "developed"

-Rex did not, in fact, fit the scheme to the players. Instead, he dismantled the D Whaley had built, forcing much of the draft to be spent on filling holes created by the defensive scheme at the expense of some needs.

-The GM is obligated to take the coach's evaluations and scheme preferences into account in player personnel decisions. Whaley cut some players he drafted and probably would rather have kept (Russ Cockrell being one, Randall Johnson possibly another in the "LB U" system of drafting LB low and letting them develop) because they didn't fit Rex's schemes, and I'm sure he kept some players he'd rather not have kept such as IK Enemkpali. It's also never been clear exactly who was the driving force for cutting FredEx.

 

So if Rex felt Whaley wasn't too happy with him coaching the team and weren't on the same page, maybe it's because Rex came into the building and rewrote the page.

 

Seems pretty clear that someone here actually talked to Rex, but I'm hoping the other Bills insights at the bottom are fluff and noise. I will be DEEPLY disappointed if the Bills don't run an actual coaching search.

I will not be disappointed if we stick with Taylor, but I think the new HC should weigh in on that because his contract does preclude options. And the "news flash" Lynn had nothing to do with Manuel getting the start....

DUH, Lynn said so about 4 times in his presser.

[purple haze]

 

The issue is who would want the job at this point. Top candidates would rather go elsewhere or wait for better openings, rather than take a job with a GM who in the media is being portrayed as being on a bit of a power trip.

I read that in TBN. I've heard some media talking heads say that. But does anyone know that? How do we know A. Lynn isn't the best coach for the gig? I've already seen some in TBN set up the following narrative: The Bills will run a "search" but A. Lynn will get the job; intimating that, somehow, he is less than other candidates. Then I've seen Coughlin might take the job but he's desperate. So basically, whatever Whaley does is not right because the coach won't be the best they could get. Well, no one knows anything until whomever the coach is puts a team on the field.

 

Remember when Marrone quit on the Bills and the media said the same BS? Who could ever want the job? Whaley signed an extension last season. Marrone quit. Whaley is there. Rex was fired. Whaley is there. Whatever one thinks of Whaley, Whaley apparently has the respect of the owners; so much so that they felt the need to say he would lead the coaching search, which is not something they said when the hunt for Rex began. You know what else the owners have said? Not a damn thing. TBN? The Fans? Rex and Rob are relieved of their duties. Whaley will run the next search.

 

That tells me Whaley and his selection for coach has some time. In spite of what TBN reporters would like to see or some fans.

Edited December 31, 2016 by purple haze

[Virgil]

Good post and exactly why I think Lynn won't get the job.

 

I think Whaley will try to get someone that would retain Lynn, but it's not a deal breaker. There's too much riding on this next HC for Whaley as we expect to win now.

 

Lynn will make rookie HC mistakes. It's natural. Whaley doesn't have that kind of time in my opinion.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Virgil

[jr1]

he might feel the Pegulas think he was being lazy by just keeping Lynn

[purple haze]

 

I agree with all this and if Whaley is smart he goes with the best coach.

 

I read on Bleacher Report That Whaley doesn't want to give ANY control of the roster up to a HC and said that Josh McDaniels would love this job but would want some say about the roster. The same with Coughlin, Shanahan and others so it looks like most of the good candidates wont be coming here and we will be bottoming out for sure (which could be Pegs plan all along, but you cant tank in football so )

You read on Bleacher report? Did Whaley and the Pegula's not give Rex every player he wanted, in spite of being in control of the 53? Sounds to me like bleacher report is reading TBN and running with the conjecture.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

No it was Whaley explaining to Kim that you just know and they knew it was Rex. It's already been posted on here before this week and I'm not in the mood to look it up. Bottom line Whaley is responsible for the roster and the coach and so far he has failed.

 

Oh, Brother.

[purple haze]

i think the odds favor him given whaleys praise. However, I could see the possibility of coughlin coming in for 2 years and retaining Lynn as the OC with an implicit promise it's his job after that. Kind of what they did when Wade came to buffalo as D.C. And took over when Marv retired.

Lynn could have a HC gig before that type of transition could take place.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Good post and exactly why I think Lynn won't get the job.

 

I think Whaley will try to get someone that would retain Lynn, but it's not a deal breaker. There's too much riding on this next HC for Whaley as we expect to win now.

 

Lynn will make rookie HC mistakes. It's natural. Whaley doesn't have that kind of time in my opinion.

 

Good points.

Lynn could have a HC gig before that type of transition could take place.

 

Or not. He's been interviewing for years, possibly helped by the Rooney Rule. But it's fairly uncommon for a guy to get a jump from position assistant to HC, especially when he's only been one flavor of position assistant.

I'm not saying he can't do it, or that he might not be a good candidate, I'm just saying the way coach hiring seems to go, no one seems to want to take that risk.

[purple haze]

 

Good points.

 

Or not. He's been interviewing for years, possibly helped by the Rooney Rule. But it's fairly uncommon for a guy to get a jump from position assistant to HC, especially when he's only been one flavor of position assistant.

I'm not saying he can't do it, or that he might not be a good candidate, I'm just saying the way coach hiring seems to go, no one seems to want to take that risk.

A. Lynn interviewed for the 49ers and the Dolphins last year; so did Teryl Austin who also interviewed for other HC openings, including the Bears, Bills, Falcons and Browns who also, wait for it, interviewed Hue Jackson and Todd Bowels. I thought the Rooney rule only required one interview with a person of color? Perhaps A. Lynn and others are good at their jobs and respected in league circles, in spite of what message board group-think would have everyone believe?

 

I am not saying that the Rooney rule thing has not been misused at times, but it does not mean every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his pigment. I will also say that the men who get the interviews do have qualifications to be interviewed. Some folks act like they are coaches who have never coached in the NFL, have no experience whatever, etc., which is ridiculous and says a lot about the mindset of those folks.

Edited December 31, 2016 by purple haze

[reddogblitz]

There's this trope going around that Whaley wants a toady coach who doesn't threaten his job security instead of a top level one who might. For people mindlessly promoting this idiocy, let me point out that the only way DW remains GM is by making the Bills into a highly successful team. It is in his own best interest to employ the very best coach he can. Anyone who truly believes he is looking for some mediocre, "just happy for the job," guy as an employment hedge seriously misreads the metrics DW will be judged by.

This

[reddogblitz]

I am not saying that the Rooney rule thing has not been misused at times, but it does not mean every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his pigment.

This is why we need to get rid of it IMHO. It has outlived it's usefulness. We've had a Super Bowl between 2 teams led by black coaches.

 

The only thing it does now is make the black guys look bad because they're perceived as Rooney Rule guys. Anthony Lynn himself says he's not interviewing with anyone who hasn't already interviewed a minority candidate first. What does that tell you?

Edited December 31, 2016 by reddogblitz

[Hapless Bills Fan]

A. Lynn interviewed for the 49ers and the Dolphins last year; so did Teryl Austin who also interviewed for other HC openings, including the Bears, Bills, Falcons and Browns who also, wait for it, interviewed Hue Jackson and Todd Bowels. I thought the Rooney rule only required one interview with a person of color? Perhaps A. Lynn and others are good at their jobs and respected in league circles, in spite of what some message board mouth-breathers would have everyone believe?

 

I am not saying that the Rooney rule thing has not been misused at times, but it does not mean every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his pigment.

 

I'm sorry if I was interpreted as meaning that, I certainly don't believe every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his melanin status. Can we agree that some do get interviews, who might otherwise not have the qualifications wanted of serious candidates for HC?

 

This may not be true of Lynn: he may be regarded as superbly qualified for the job in league circles. I can't tell; I'm not a football insider and my viewpoint of media reports on "hot" names for coaching is colored by Schefter puffing up Marrone. But let me ask you this, maybe it will help convey what I'm trying to: how many HC have been hired in the NFL directly from coaching assistant positions without at least a couple of seasons as a coordinator, OC DC or ST? Because I can't think of one other than Jim Tomsula, which seems widely regarded as one of the worst HC hiring disasters in the NFL ever - and even there, he had HC experience in NFL Europe. I'm sure I'm missing a few?

 

Teryl Austin has been a DC in the NFL for 2 seasons as well as in college football. Hue Jackson had been a RB coach, ST assistant, and OC in college, then WR coach, QB coach, three stints as OC, and previous HC before being hired by the Bengals. Todd Bowles was a college DC, a DB coach, secondary/assistant HC, interim DC, and several years as DC in AZ.

 

Can we agree those 3 guys seem to have a different level of prior coaching experience than Anthony Lynn, who may be a great HC candidate for all I know but who as far as I can tell, has only been a RB coach since 2003 and only with Rex Ryan since 2009? I would love to see ALynn take a step, but a step to OC might be a good choice; a step all the way from RB to HC might be too much and setting him up for failure.

 

FTR, I would have been happy to see either Todd Bowles or Hue Jackson hired by the Bills in 2015.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan

[YoloinOhio]

A. Lynn interviewed for the 49ers and the Dolphins last year; so did Teryl Austin who also interviewed for other HC openings, including the Bears, Bills, Falcons and Browns who also, wait for it, interviewed Hue Jackson and Todd Bowels. I thought the Rooney rule only required one interview with a person of color? Perhaps A. Lynn and others are good at their jobs and respected in league circles, in spite of what message board group-think would have everyone believe?

 

I am not saying that the Rooney rule thing has not been misused at times, but it does not mean every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his pigment. I will also say that the men who get the interviews do have qualifications to be interviewed. Some folks act like they are coaches who have never coached in the NFL, have no experience whatever, etc., which is ridiculous and says a lot about the mindset of those folks.

Lynn also interviewed for the Jets job in 2015, and they hired Bowles. With Bowles on the interview slate, Lynn wasn't just a RR candidate.

[purple haze]

 

I'm sorry if I was interpreted as meaning that, I certainly don't believe every black man who gets an interview is just there because of his melanin status. Can we agree that some do get interviews, who might otherwise not have the qualifications wanted of serious candidates for HC?

 

This may not be true of Lynn: he may be regarded as superbly qualified for the job in league circles. I can't tell; I'm not a football insider and my viewpoint of media reports on "hot" names for coaching is colored by Schefter puffing up Marrone. But let me ask you this, maybe it will help convey what I'm trying to: how many HC have been hired in the NFL directly from coaching assistant positions without at least a couple of seasons as a coordinator, OC DC or ST? Because I can't think of one other than Jim Tomsula, which seems widely regarded as one of the worst HC hiring disasters in the NFL ever - and even there, he had HC experience in NFL Europe. I'm sure I'm missing a few?

 

Teryl Austin has been a DC in the NFL for 2 seasons as well as in college football. Hue Jackson had been a RB coach, ST assistant, and OC in college, then WR coach, QB coach, three stints as OC, and previous HC before being hired by the Bengals. Todd Bowles was a college DC, a DB coach, secondary/assistant HC, interim DC, and several years as DC in AZ.

 

Can we agree those 3 guys seem to have a different level of prior coaching experience than Anthony Lynn, who may be a great HC candidate for all I know but who as far as I can tell, has only been a RB coach since 2003 and only with Rex Ryan since 2009? I would love to see ALynn take a step, but a step to OC might be a good choice; a step all the way from RB to HC might be too much and setting him up for failure.

 

FTR, I would have been happy to see either Todd Bowles or Hue Jackson hired by the Bills in 2015.

It is most definitely true that A. Lynn does not have the coordinator experience of other candidates like Austin or Jackson or Bowles or any other black/white/green/purple candidate who is coming from a coordinator position. Agreed. Also agree it would seem a big jump going from RB to one season of OC before becoming a HC.

 

I think, though, that does not preclude a team from having interest in him. He is not a guy coming from the shoe department at Macy's or some law firm practice. He has been in the NFL as a player and as a coach for over twenty years. Some see that as a deficit. I see it as a guy who keeps finding work in an unforgiving industry where change is constant. It tells me he does good work and has the respect of other coaches around the league. He's worked on staff for Mike Shanahan, Jack Del Rio and Bill Parcells before working with Rex. I see far too often many of these interviews thrown away by some fans when in reality a particular candidate is but one of a few men of color who were interviewed for the same HC gig. Also, those coordinator positions have been, traditionally, as hard to get as HC positions for coaches of color.

 

I apologize if you felt I was attacking you. That wasn't my intention. I was trying to make a more general point about the situation. I liked Hue Jackson for the Bills too, but was happy with Rex because I thought he would be able to take the defense to the next level. Rex had HC and DC experience... We won't know until we know. Could be that A. Lynn is the next great HC.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It is most definitely true that A. Lynn does not have the coordinator experience of other candidates like Austin or Jackson or Bowles or any other black/white/green/purple candidate who is coming from a coordinator position. Agreed. Also agree it would seem a big jump going from RB to one season of OC before becoming a HC.

 

I think, though, that does not preclude a team from having interest in him. He is not a guy coming from the shoe department at Macy's or some law firm practice. He has been in the NFL as a player and as a coach for over twenty years. Some see that as a deficit. I see it as a guy who keeps finding work in an unforgiving industry where change is constant. It tells me he does good work and has the respect of other coaches around the league. He's worked on staff for Mike Shanahan, Jack Del Rio and Bill Parcells before working with Rex. I see far too often many of these interviews thrown away by some fans when in reality a particular candidate is but one of a few men of color who were interviewed for the same HC gig. Also, those coordinator positions have been, traditionally, as hard to get as HC positions for coaches of color.

 

I apologize if you felt I was attacking you. That wasn't my intention. I was trying to make a more general point about the situation. I liked Hue Jackson for the Bills too, but was happy with Rex because I thought he would be able to take the defense to the next level. Rex had HC and DC experience... We won't know until we know. Could be that A. Lynn is the next great HC.

 

No, we're good. ALynn might be the next great HC, and if the Bills hire him, I will certainly and most devoutly hope it is true!

 

I had wondered why ALynn didn't have a coordinator gig. It would seem as though, if he's experienced enough to be interviewed for a HC, he really should have had one by now. It's too bad if there's some sort of bias there too.

[26CornerBlitz]

@JasonLaCanfora

Anthony Lynn a virtual lock to be named Bills coach on a permanent basis - http://CBSSports.com

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/anthony-lynn-a-virtual-lock-to-be-named-bills-coach-on-a-permanent-basis/

 

[nucci]

 

The issue is who would want the job at this point. Top candidates would rather go elsewhere or wait for better openings, rather than take a job with a GM who in the media is being portrayed as being on a bit of a power trip.

why wouldn't they accept an interview and try to find out if Whaley is how he's portrayed by the media.......because reporters never have an agenda...especially ones from TBN

[Fixxxer]

It is most definitely true that A. Lynn does not have the coordinator experience of other candidates like Austin or Jackson or Bowles or any other black/white/green/purple candidate who is coming from a coordinator position. Agreed. Also agree it would seem a big jump going from RB to one season of OC before becoming a HC.

 

I think, though, that does not preclude a team from having interest in him. He is not a guy coming from the shoe department at Macy's or some law firm practice. He has been in the NFL as a player and as a coach for over twenty years. Some see that as a deficit. I see it as a guy who keeps finding work in an unforgiving industry where change is constant. It tells me he does good work and has the respect of other coaches around the league. He's worked on staff for Mike Shanahan, Jack Del Rio and Bill Parcells before working with Rex. I see far too often many of these interviews thrown away by some fans when in reality a particular candidate is but one of a few men of color who were interviewed for the same HC gig. Also, those coordinator positions have been, traditionally, as hard to get as HC positions for coaches of color.

 

I apologize if you felt I was attacking you. That wasn't my intention. I was trying to make a more general point about the situation. I liked Hue Jackson for the Bills too, but was happy with Rex because I thought he would be able to take the defense to the next level. Rex had HC and DC experience... We won't know until we know. Could be that A. Lynn is the next great HC.

 

I feel that Anthony Lynn is as good a prospect for the HC position as any in this league. Heck, John Harbaugh was a special teams coach for 20 years before being named HC for the Ravens.

 

What Lynn did with this offense this year and with another's man system (tells me his ego won't be a problem) nontheless, is remarkable.