Doug Whaley - The Tim Graham Feature Story

[May Day 10]

 

How many franchise QBs have we 'missed' on since 2013?

 

They actually went into 2013 with Manuel, Lewis, and Tuel... ouch.

 

It would have been nice if instead of trading up for Watkins to try to inflate their EJ Manuel mistake in the eyes of incoming new ownership... basically investing 3 1st rounders on.... that.... they could have had Bridgewater or Carr... and had a 1st rounder in 2015.... they could have even traded down and still drafted Bridgewater or Carr.

 

Then you see Philadelphia and how aggressively they are chasing (or have chased) their franchise QB.

 

 

I feel like the Bills are going to again be in self-salvation mode, trying to plug a number of holes, instead of being serious about QB. They will keep Tyrod... or "try Cardale". Early Draft rounds will be a S, WR, and CB. Always chasing the 8-8 dreams

 

 

More than anything... I feel we just need fresh eyes and outlook there. Nobody at OBD has proven any mettle in building a playoff caliber NFL team or identifying a QB.

Edited December 19, 2016 by May Day 10

[26CornerBlitz]

 

They actually went into 2013 with Manuel, Lewis, and Tuel... ouch.

 

It would have been nice if instead of trading up for Watkins to try to inflate their EJ Manuel mistake in the eyes of incoming new ownership... basically investing 3 1st rounders on.... that.... they could have had Bridgewater or Carr... and had a 1st rounder in 2015.... they could have even traded down and still drafted Bridgewater or Carr.

 

Then you see Philadelphia and how aggressively they are chasing (or have chased) their franchise QB.

 

 

I feel like the Bills are going to again be in self-salvation mode, trying to plug a number of holes, instead of being serious about QB. They will keep Tyrod... or "try Cardale". Early Draft rounds will be a S, WR, and CB. Always chasing the 8-8 dreams

 

Not so sure that they'll keep him and they know Cardale isn't ready. You might not agree with their approach, but this conclusion is hilarious.

[QCity]

I want them to create a good, sustainable football program. Their sites need to be set higher than making the playoffs someday. Nothing here makes me believe anyone internally understands how to make sustainability happen.

I agree with you 100% on this. If your ultimate goal is to make the playoff as a pretender just so we can end this "streak," then yes, keeping Whaley and TT is certainly the way to go. A lot of fans would be thrilled with this.

 

Personally, I don't care about being a one-and-done playoff team.

[TANK2]

 

...this is suspiciously specific.

C'mon. Youve never been to the EAP site?

[The Big Cat]

C'mon. Youve never been to the EAP site?

 

[Captain_Quint]

C'mon. Youve never been to the EAP site?

Quote the Big Cat, nevermore

[Reed83HOF]

 

They actually went into 2013 with Manuel, Lewis, and Tuel... ouch.

 

It would have been nice if instead of trading up for Watkins to try to inflate their EJ Manuel mistake in the eyes of incoming new ownership... basically investing 3 1st rounders on.... that.... they could have had Bridgewater or Carr... and had a 1st rounder in 2015.... they could have even traded down and still drafted Bridgewater or Carr.

 

Then you see Philadelphia and how aggressively they are chasing (or have chased) their franchise QB.

 

 

I feel like the Bills are going to again be in self-salvation mode, trying to plug a number of holes, instead of being serious about QB. They will keep Tyrod... or "try Cardale". Early Draft rounds will be a S, WR, and CB. Always chasing the 8-8 dreams

 

 

More than anything... I feel we just need fresh eyes and outlook there. Nobody at OBD has proven any mettle in building a playoff caliber NFL team or identifying a QB.

 

Yup...

[PromoTheRobot]

Which is why you need to try harder than Whaley has. His inattention to the position is his biggest failing.

Yeah, that's the magic answer...try harder. The 20 or so NFL teams that need a QB don't try hard enough.

 

Maybe he should hold his breath too?

Edited December 20, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[Billznut]

@jayskurski

FWIW, #Bills have declined multiple interview requests for Whaley, dating to training camp. Pegulas making same mistake they did with Regier

Let's hope Pegula has learned from his mistakes with the Sabres and applies it to the Bills. I think come January 2nd we will know one way or the other.

[QCity]

The 20 or so NFL teams that need a QB don't try hard enough.

Not 20, but there are a few teams that don't move with enough urgency or spend enough resources to improve that position, and we are clearly one of those teams..

[Sisyphean Bills]

Honestly I don't mind the article, but Graham is basically saying 6 > 2 without giving any knowledge of where these guys come from. Even just saying, "6 personnel guys from winning teams..". If you are trying to write a persuasive piece and you can't include those details because it contrary to what your point is, don't put them in.

 

The point can't be, well 6 guys said it's the wrong way and that's greater number than 2.

 

The "8 other personnel guys" isn't the strongest argument, obviously. It's just a sample.

 

But when you combine that the Bills are starting later in the process than some teams, actually do draft underclassmen, have the lowest retention of their own draft picks in the NFL, and they have the longest playoff drought, it's not unreasonable to wonder if the tradition of always laying things at the feet of the coaching staff, bad luck at finding a QB at their spots in the draft, and injuries isn't dodging responsibility. Graham has hit that particular point two weeks in a row on the org's modus operandi.

[Reed83HOF]

 

The "8 other personnel guys" isn't the strongest argument, obviously. It's just a sample.

 

But when you combine that the Bills are starting later in the process than some teams, actually do draft underclassmen, have the lowest retention of their own draft picks in the NFL, and they have the longest playoff drought, it's not unreasonable to wonder if the tradition of always laying things at the feet of the coaching staff, bad luck at finding a QB at their spots in the draft, and injuries isn't dodging responsibility. Graham has hit that particular point two weeks in a row on the org's modus operandi.

 

Very well said...

[Billsman623]

Graham is a hack.

[Dorkington]

 

They actually went into 2013 with Manuel, Lewis, and Tuel... ouch.

 

It would have been nice if instead of trading up for Watkins to try to inflate their EJ Manuel mistake in the eyes of incoming new ownership... basically investing 3 1st rounders on.... that.... they could have had Bridgewater or Carr... and had a 1st rounder in 2015.... they could have even traded down and still drafted Bridgewater or Carr.

 

Then you see Philadelphia and how aggressively they are chasing (or have chased) their franchise QB.

 

 

I feel like the Bills are going to again be in self-salvation mode, trying to plug a number of holes, instead of being serious about QB. They will keep Tyrod... or "try Cardale". Early Draft rounds will be a S, WR, and CB. Always chasing the 8-8 dreams

 

 

More than anything... I feel we just need fresh eyes and outlook there. Nobody at OBD has proven any mettle in building a playoff caliber NFL team or identifying a QB.

IIRC, they went into 2013 with Kolb, Manuel and Tuel, with the intention of starting Kolb, who, while not perfect, was seen as a solid/promising vet, until EJ was ready.

 

The next year they were encouraged by Manuel, but also wanted to shore things up with a vet presence, and reached out to Orton, who didn't commit until late.

 

I can see why they went for Watkins, since they had faith that EJ would work out. Not very often do you take a 1st round QB two years in a row and find success. And there's no guarantee that Bridgewater or Carr develop under Hackett.

[TANK2]

Graham makes a classic mistake here. He makes the correlation that having a higher percentage of drafted players on your team CAUSES success. In policy study circles, they'd say he is ignoring a latent variable that is driving both high draft pick roster percentage and success.

 

Teams with franchise QBs have to rely primarily on draft picks because the QB eats up so much cap room. Teams without a franchise QB salary, can afford to have a higher percentage of pro personal on their rosters.Having a top QB is the reason teams have long term success. It drives roster decisions as well.

 

I read an article that said successful school children tended to have more books in their home than other children. Do you suppose the books really had anything to do with it? No, these children had smart/educated parents (who tend to read more) and that's what causes their success. Just filling a room in your house with books won't make your kid a better student.

 

Just having your roster filled with draft picks won't consistently get you to the playoffs. Having a Franchise QB will.

And part of his job is finding a QB.

Graham is a hack.

Why do I get the feeling that anybody who is critical of this team that hasnt made the playoffs in 17 years is a hack in your mind. Think the koolaid lovers need to start a club. You can call it the COM. Champions Of Mediocrity.

[26CornerBlitz]

@BuffRumblings

Has #Bills GM Doug Whaley’s roster-building really been that bad?http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/12/20/14023652/bills-doug-whaley-another-way-to-assess-the-roster-building-of-buffalo-bills-rex-ryan?

 

This past Sunday, Tim Graham of The Buffalo News published the results of a study he did on the job Buffalo Bills GM Doug Whaley has done retaining draft picks, and how he stacks up to the rest of the NFL.

In the article, Graham came to the following conclusions:

• “A league-wide roster analysis shows perennial playoff teams have an average 61.1 percent more draft picks on their rosters than the Bills are carrying.”
• “The Bills have 22 of their own draft picks on the active roster and 31 overall when counting the practice squad and injured reserve.”
• “Those are the lowest figures in the league and substantially behind teams that have made the playoffs within the past five years.”

None of those points are arguable. Graham did the work, and those statements are facts.

I have the utmost respect for Graham. We’ve met a handful of times, and he’s been approachable, friendly, down-to-Earth, and willing to answer any questions, football-related or not.

 

However, that doesn’t mean I have to or always will agree with him. This is one of those instances.

 

[dave mcbride]

@BuffRumblings

Has #Bills GM Doug Whaley’s roster-building really been that bad?http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/12/20/14023652/bills-doug-whaley-another-way-to-assess-the-roster-building-of-buffalo-bills-rex-ryan?

 

 

Thanks for the link. I continue to believe that the 2013 draft and the Hughes trade were pretty much all Whaley's handiwork, with a minor assist from the septuagenarian who had announced his retirement long before the draft occurred. There was both good (Hughes; Alonso), bad (Manuel), and OK (Woods) in that time frame. And even Manuel was the right move -- the trade down netted them a first-round caliber player in Alonso, who has had a very, very strong year for the Dolphins. Plus they HAD to take a QB given the situation. I think Manuel is no worse than any of the other guys taken afterward.

[K-9]

Thanks for the link. I continue to believe that the 2013 draft and the Hughes trade were pretty much all Whaley's handiwork, with a minor assist from the septuagenarian who had announced his retirement long before the draft occurred. There was both good (Hughes; Alonso), bad (Manuel), and OK (Woods) in that time frame. And even Manuel was the right move -- the trade down netted them a first-round caliber player in Alonso, who has had a very, very strong year for the Dolphins. Plus they HAD to take a QB given the situation. I think Manuel is no worse than any of the other guys taken afterward.

You are correct. Whaley was in the Kirk chair essentially since August of '12, which is typically when the scouting process kicks into higher gear. And the '13 draft was his baby. Buddy was largely the GM by name only. The practicalities of the job were being performed by Wahely well before he was given official title.

[jeffismagic]

You can tell when Whaley started making the picks. Under Nix we only drafted SEC and ACC players. Whaley drafted Alonso, Nix never would.

[dave mcbride]

You can tell when Whaley started making the picks. Under Nix we only drafted SEC and ACC players. Whaley drafted Alonso, Nix never would.

I almost said the same.