We Should Pick Up the Option on Tyrod No Matter What

[Maury Ballstein]

Are the Tyrod haters outnumbered today? That is a switch.

 

Dont worry....we lose this next game and the NNN's will take over the board again

Why are we gonna lose ?

 

Even Tyrod's biggest fan doesn't believe he can win a game for us ever ?

 

That is the issue. That is why any talk of haters or EJ is foolish.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[MAJBobby]

Why are we gonna lose ?

 

Even Tyrod's biggest fan doesn't believe he can win a game for us ever ?

What's funny about the Church of Tyrod is they actually think the people that are very critical of him right now wanted him to go down in the long line of Buffalo QBs that are just not good enough

[boyst]

Until we find someone better keep him. We made this mistake with Fitz and didn't learn. And we have an out every yr per john murphy

[MAJBobby]

Until we find someone better keep him. We made this mistake with Fitz and didn't learn. And we have an out every yr per john murphy

Every NFL team has an out of every contract every year. Doesn't mean that out is not going to hurt your cap. And if his option it picked up it will absolutely hurt out cap to use any out (until after 2018).

 

So the reality is your not picking up a 2017 option in March. Your picking up a two year option in March

Edited December 2, 2016 by MAJBobby

[Fadingpain]

Here is another "look there is no alternative" type thread. And there is. There is an alternative and I have articulated what an alternative approach might look like a couple of times now on this forum.

 

I am not In Ryan L Billz territory either... I don't think Tyrod sucks, I don't think EJ Manuel was screwed, and I don't think you could just plug Cardale Jones in at this stage and expect to get the same production. But you know what, with every one of these "there is no alternative" type threads I do begin to believe that he is right about Tyrod fandom being "cultish." I just see too much inconsistency, too much bailing clean pockets, too many wide open receivers ignored to be looking at this Quarterback as anything more than a game manager with some wheels.

 

I accept his is going to be our Quarterback next year and I agree with Kirby that this is not a debate at OBD. But I wonder whether it would be a debate at OBD if it were purely left to the front office to decide it - because the biggest Tyrod Taylor flag waiver in the organisation is the Head Football Coach. The only way Tyrod is not our QB next year is a 4 game slump to end 6-10 looking bad doing it because my strong suspicion is that without Rex this would be a debate the organisation would be having.

 

MAJBobby has already made the point about people misreading the dead money on the contract for me but let me just be clear. People go on about the $27.5m that Tyrod will be due next season. If he is on the roster on the 3rd day of the league year then over the next two years $40.5m actually becomes guaranteed. The spotrac site and over the cap etc show the dead money as if that money is not guaranteed because at the moment it isn't but if he is on the roster on the 3rd day of 2017 it will be and then the dead money for getting out at the end of 2017 is roughly $25.5m (made up of a $13m fully guaranteed 2018 base salary and $12.4m of the remaining unpaid but fully guaranteed option bonus). Cutting him after 2018 would make the dead cap $9.3m, then after 2019 $6.2m until finally cutting him after 2020 would cost $3.1m in dead cap.

 

Make no mistake if we roll with Tyrod on this contract in 2017 we are tied in to him for a minimum of 2 years and at a salary where your Quarterback really has to be more than a complimentary piece in an offense. You can talk all you want about how many starters would be paid less than him... but how many paid like starters are asked to do less than him?

 

I am not a Tyrod hater and nothing frustrates me as much as being called one. I am just someone who watches the games and looks at those numbers and thinks about the 2 or 3 other contributors that will cost us and asks - Is this Quarterback worth that in respect of making enough of a difference in wins and losses?

 

I have said before if Seattle Tyrod turns up every week count me in, but if we get Seattle Tyrod, followed by Cincy Tyrod, followed by 1st half Jax Tyrod, followed by 2nd half Jax Tyrod..... I don't want to pay him like a starter. Because that level of consistency is what Jeff Fisher might call "8 and 8 bull ****".

Gunner Bill!

 

You do a nice job of addressing Stage 1 of the conversation, namely, should we retain Tyrod or not.

 

But what about Stage 2? Stage 2 is the "So now what?" part of the plan if Stage 1 leads to NOT retaining Tyrod.

 

I.E., who is our starting QB next year if we decide not to go forward with Tyrod?

 

I am not sure you are going to find a better option in the very near term and for that reason, we are almost backed into having to keep Tyrod.

 

And as an aside, as long as Rex is our coach, Tyrod is our QB. Too much politics built into it for it to be undone.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Fadingpain

[boyst]

Every NFL team has an out of every contract every year. Doesn't mean that out is not going to hurt your cap

I don't worry with the cap. I think of football

[MAJBobby]

Gunner Bill!

 

You do a nice job of addressing Stage 1 of the conversation, namely, should we retain Tyrod or not.

 

But what about Stage 2? Stage 2 is the "So now what?" part of the plan if Stage 1 leads to NOT retaining Tyrod.

 

I.E., who is our starting QB next year if we decide not to go forward with Tyrod?

 

I am not sure you are going to find a better option in the very near term and for that reason, we are almost backed into having to keep Tyrod.

 

And as an aside, as long as Rex is our coach, Tyrod is our QB. Too much politics built into it for it to be undone.

Stage 2. - Sign Brian Hoyer (like a 5M cap hit max). Draft a rookie early.

 

You will get much better passing production (granted an INJ risk) out of Hoyer. But really this Offense and how it is designed is not much unlike Dallas and you can hide a QB and make them look good. Been doing it all year with Tyrod (hiding part)

I don't worry with the cap. I think of football

Cap is a HUGE part of football

[yungmack]

Anytime you can sign the 29th ranked qb you do it !

We beat the jags baby. We da best!

Let's forget the pats/fins/ravens/bengals games.

6 games left. Right now it's a no.

#OVERTHEMIDDLE. LULZ.

Jeez, your anger gets tiresome.

[BigBuff423]

NO. Just, NO.

[metzelaars_lives]

Tyrod > Wentz ? Good luck with that.

 

Which games has Tyrod won for the Bills ? Jags and ?

 

Agree to disagree sir. We would be lucky if he turned into Alex Smith IMO.

Look, I would take Wentz over Taylor right now if I'm starting a franchise but it's not a monster windmill 360 jam. Here's the deal: Wentz beat the BROWNS AND THE BEARS and everybody started jizzing their pants over him. Yet you are the lord of "well who did he beat?" The contradictions and hypocrisy in the s**t you talk every day is beyond glaring. You are very easy to make look foolish but then you just come back with more vitriol. Again, very much akin to one Donald J. Trump. Edited December 2, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[Maury Ballstein]

Jeez, your anger gets tiresome.

Use the ignore feature playa.

 

Anything you would like to refute ?

[GunnerBill]

Gunner Bill!

 

You do a nice job of addressing Stage 1 of the conversation, namely, should we retain Tyrod or not.

 

But what about Stage 2? Stage 2 is the "So now what?" part of the plan if Stage 1 leads to NOT retaining Tyrod.

 

I.E., who is our starting QB next year if we decide not to go forward with Tyrod?

 

I am not sure you are going to find a better option in the very near term and for that reason, we are almost backed into having to keep Tyrod.

 

And as an aside, as long as Rex is our coach, Tyrod is our QB. Too much politics built into it for it to be undone.

I have made that argumet twice now on this board. If I could get Brian Hoyer at $5m who gives me a bit of a downgrade overall but is a bit of an upgrade as a passer and use that money to address the gaping hole at safety, either retain or replace Gilmore in FA and pick up a vet receiver I think the overall impact would be a better Bills team with a better chance to win in 2017.

 

At the same time I look to the draft and take another shot this year (probably 2nd or 3rd round is where I think the QB value will be) and I hope that a better class next year might give me the chance at a blue chip Quarterback prospect and if it does I am willing to get all Philly and go all in to move up for that person.

 

If my guy this year or Cardale emerges in the meantime all the better. But I do not accept Hoyer (with a .500 career starting record and an above .500 record in the two places where he has started as the named starter) is a tank it an admission of a wasted 2017.

 

I accept he is a slight downgrade from TT, but he is a slight downgrade at the cost of an additional 3 starter level talents elsewhere and this is a team designed to win with the QB not through the QB.

Edited December 2, 2016 by GunnerBill

[Fadingpain]

Hmmm. I can't go with the Brian Hoyer back up plan.

That dude sucks.

 

I am in favor of drafting another QB though for sure, particularly in a lower round.

 

Would be fascinating if Tyrod goes down with an injury or we are mathematically eliminated from playoffs with regular season game or games left.

 

Would give us the chance to play Cardale and see just how far away he really is.

[Maury Ballstein]

Look, I would take Wentz over Taylor right now if I'm starting a franchise but it's not a monster windmill 360 jam. Here's the deal: Wentz beat the BROWNS AND THE BEARS and everybody started jizzing their pants over him. Yet you are the lord of "well who did he beat?" The contradictions and hypocrisy in the s**t you talk every day is beyond glaring.

You forgot about him pantsing Big Ben. Have a glass of water. You sound angry.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[MAJBobby]

Hmmm. I can't go with the Brian Hoyer back up plan.

That dude sucks.

 

I am in favor of drafting another QB though for sure, particularly in a lower round.

 

Would be fascinating if Tyrod goes down with an injury or we are mathematically eliminated from playoffs with regular season game or games left.

 

Would give us the chance to play Cardale and see just how far away he really is.

Why does Brian Hoyer suck. He has a better record than Tyrod. It a better passer than Tyrod and would cost 1/3rd of the Cap hit than Tyrod.

 

Where his baggage is in his Age and injury history

[GunnerBill]

Hmmm. I can't go with the Brian Hoyer back up plan.

That dude sucks.

It isn't TT vs Hoyer. It is TT vs Hoyer plus 3 starters.

 

EDIT: and I use Hoyer only as the best example. Fitz would be equally suitable and I think if he wants a shot at starting next year he would have to take the kind of money I am on about but he does have to much baggage here. Case Keenum is another candidate.

Edited December 2, 2016 by GunnerBill

[metzelaars_lives]

You forgot about him pantsing Big Ben

Yeah and the Steelers (you know, the football team) had nothing that day. Taylor hung 30 on a Texans team that had given up 2 TD's the previous 3 weeks last year and you would mock him by saying he "beat Hoyer." Who's actually not even bad. Once you realize football isn't a game of one-on-one hoop you'll have a better understand of the game.

[quinnearlysghost88]

You're disqualified from this convo.

 

We saw your blind Tyrod takes in the last Tyrod thread. The one where you fight w facts.

 

Go ahead and fight with math again. Tyrod will hold the ball long enough for you to think of more excuses

Yes, i forgot about your solid, fact-based logic.

 

drafting an unproven yet-to-be-named college QB > Tyrod Taylor.

 

Tony Romo (dream scenario of an oft-injured 36-year-old QB who lost his spot to a rookie)> Tyrod Taylor.

 

You have more of a crusade going than i do, bud.

[bobobonators]

Tyrod should and will come back I feel. With a deep threat like Sammy (when healthy) and the running element to his game, hes the perfect dual-threat fit for the style of offense this regime wants to run.

 

20th (ish) highest paid QB.

 

Leader of an offense ranked 8th in the NFL in Pts this yr and top 10 since 2015.

 

3rd best TD/TURNOVER ratio in the entire NFL since named Bills' starter.

 

Better winning % than Rodgers, Brees, Stafford, Cousins, Dalton, Eli, Rivers, Mariota, Tannehill, Matt Ryan, Winston, Bortles, Luck, Fitz, Bradford, Flacco, Etc since TT was named Bills' starter.

 

Continue to develop Cardale. EJ will probably go somewhere else - and I wish him well.

 

Draft another QB this year too.

Edited December 2, 2016 by bobobonators

[Thurman#1]

So you think that making him the 20th highest paid QB (keep in mind Bortles, Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Goff, etc... are on rookie deals) is a terrible deal? There would be a couple, at most, veteran starting QBs making less than him. Context is VERY important here.

 

 

 

From what I see, he's tied for 17th highest, in terms of average salary anyway. And I didn't say it was a bad deal, period. I said it was a bad deal if he doesn't become a franchise QB.

 

So, yes, emphatically, undoubtedly, if he doesn't become a top ten or twelve guy it will be a waste of $27 mill. Fitz's contract was around 21st highest, if I remember quickly. I understood totally why they signed him to it. And it hurt the team.

 

Sure context is important. The main items of the context are money - $27 million which can't be used on other players - and how good he is and becomes, and whether we end up having to look for another QB a year or two down the road.

 

 

 

 

If he does end up improving a lot, it will look like a terrific deal. That's what it comes down to, does he or does he not improve a lot. If he doesn't it's an awful deal. If he does, it's a great deal. And we really don't know. It's a tough choice. My guesses are that they renew him and he doesn't improve much. And I really hope that he does improve an awful lot, simply because it would be the best thing for the Bills.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Thurman#1