3rdand12 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Leadership comes in both good and toxic. So yes there was some toxic leadership going on in the "room" last year. What is so confusing? And while you are correct a leader can be becauze of a position. That still doesnt mean that person in that postion is a good Leader or not I am not confused at all. You said it " There really isnt one person here that can say Taylor is or isnt a leader. Just like with really any other player." And i disagree that Mario was a leader. He was a respected veteran by the league. Hardly a leader. Toxic? perhaps. But heck if i know. But please dont suggest i am confused. at least in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Leadership is about control. Does Tyrod appear in control of the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I am not confused at all. You said it " There really isnt one person here that can say Taylor is or isnt a leader. Just like with really any other player." And i disagree that Mario was a leader. He was a respected veteran by the league. Hardly a leader. Toxic? perhaps. But heck if i know. But please dont suggest i am confused. at least in this case Leadership is the ability to influence a person or group. Mario could do that, and hence a toxic leader. Just because your not influencing to greatness doesnt mean you are not leading. Mario was leading last year to go against coaches etc. Still a leader just a toxic one. Probably one of the better definitions of leadership out there: Leadership is the art of leading others to deliberately create a result that wouldnt have happened otherwise. Notice the results are not defined as good or bad, just results. Edited November 2, 2016 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Leadership is the ability to influence a person or group. Mario could do that, and hence a toxic leader. Just because your not influencing to greatness doesnt mean you are not leading. Mario was leading last year to go against coaches etc. Still a leader just a toxic one. Probably one of the better definitions of leadership out there: Leadership is the art of leading others to deliberately create a result that wouldnt have happened otherwise. Notice the results are not defined as good or bad, just results. Ah I see your point about Mario. I was thinking along another line. Well said, and i agree about your definition. I think we are trying to define positive and strong leadership amongst the Bills. Tyrod might well be that. His co players have said it more than once, but I would not assume it is definitive. all that said i sure hope he gets rolling this second half of the Season and leads the Team to more wins !! Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Ah I see your point about Mario. I was thinking along another line. Well said, and i agree about your definition. I think we are trying to define positive and strong leadership amongst the Bills. Tyrod might well be that. His co players have said it more than once, but I would not assume it is definitive. all that said i sure hope he gets rolling this second half of the Season and leads the Team to more wins !! Go Bills! Agree and understand. One thing about military is leadership and studying it happens daily i guess. We are always reading about it, in classes about it, etc. (Obvious reasons why). One thing I (and maybe its just me) but i try and stay away from deciding if a person is a great, good, average, beloe average, bad leader without ever being placed in a situation were that person has influence over me.. End of the day who am I to say Tyrod (for example) is not a leader or a poor leader. No one can really know that without being placed in a situation where he has influence over us. What we can say is does Taylor (for example again) displays good leadership qualities. There I will say based off what I see he does show qualities of a good leader. However, on the flip side those qualities mean nothing if he cant influence. Example A Commander has all the good leader traits but unit fails, they call him a good guy but cant lead out of a wet paper bag. (Think EJ here). An effective leader understands (on a football field there are 52 other guys with 52 different personalities and such, so have to figure a way to engage and know how to influence those 52 other people to move to one common outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) had in years, and if someone brings up Orton again i am going to throw something. Got something to throw handy? Kyle was better. Bills had a better record with Kyle in (.583 vs .522) He led 2 awesome late comebacks (still waiting on Hotrod's first). Kyle 17 less yards in 12 games than Hotroc had last year in 14. Kyle also had higher comp. %. Hotrod is more fun to watch. I like Hotrod and hope for the best, but so far Kyle produced better results in the short time he was here. Edited November 3, 2016 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Tyrod Taylor is going to be great the rest of the season. He needs to work on being more accurate, but I think he has the team behind him. I really have not seen any QB on this team get the support Taylor has had since Bledsoe. Harvin, Hunter, Woods and Goodwin will help him going forward and we better win on Monday night because that Jets game Thursday "Color Throw Up" Rush was straight garbage from Rexy and the rest. We all knew the Pats were going to beat us down. We totally embarrassed them at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Yes, let's analyze Tyrod's individual play based on the lack of play of others who did not participate in the game. Very effective. I would suggest analyzing Tyrod based on what Tyrod does. Watch his vision of the field, his decision making process, his anticipation of throws, his timing, his accuracy, his throwing mechanics, his consistency. It's all pretty bad, and none of it has anything to do with anyone other than Tyrod. to quote Tom terrifies wife "he throw and catch it" I watched that whole game. Every "reciver" we had on the field couldn't catch a cold. TT made some very nice throws.... hit guys in the hands... even one to clay.... in stride... for a first down, hit his freaken hands too. It looked to me that by the end of that game TT didn't trust a pass catcher we had. To be clear... he's not Tom Brady. But how can you fault TT for the amount of drops he had to contend with sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Got something to throw handy? Kyle was better. Bills had a better record with Kyle in (.583 vs .522) He led 2 awesome late comebacks (still waiting on Hotrod's first). Kyle 17 less yards in 12 games than Hotroc had last year in 14. Kyle also had higher comp. %. Hotrod is more fun to watch. I like Hotrod and hope for the best, but so far Kyle produced better results in the short time he was here. You know how i feel about statistics reddog ! Kyle was able to manage the game day pretty decently as expected from a vet. As compared to EJ. TT has a way to go for me to describe as a veteran , he still needs a better body work to describe as managing game day. Quite a bit of work actually. But he really does things no one else can do. If he can add upon those... Patience. Is what have to keep with him. Let the games prove him out and ask me and the end of the season. So no throwing things, because you are making a reasonable point. Tyrod Taylor is going to be great the rest of the season. He needs to work on being more accurate, but I think he has the team behind him. I really have not seen any QB on this team get the support Taylor has had since Bledsoe. Harvin, Hunter, Woods and Goodwin will help him going forward and we better win on Monday night because that Jets game Thursday "Color Throw Up" Rush was straight garbage from Rexy and the rest. We all knew the Pats were going to beat us down. We totally embarrassed them at home. I think this is what Major is pointing to. ( bolded ). Lets see if this holds true throughout the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Agree and understand. One thing about military is leadership and studying it happens daily i guess. We are always reading about it, in classes about it, etc. (Obvious reasons why). One thing I (and maybe its just me) but i try and stay away from deciding if a person is a great, good, average, beloe average, bad leader without ever being placed in a situation were that person has influence over me.. End of the day who am I to say Tyrod (for example) is not a leader or a poor leader. No one can really know that without being placed in a situation where he has influence over us. What we can say is does Taylor (for example again) displays good leadership qualities. There I will say based off what I see he does show qualities of a good leader. However, on the flip side those qualities mean nothing if he cant influence. Example A Commander has all the good leader traits but unit fails, they call him a good guy but cant lead out of a wet paper bag. (Think EJ here). An effective leader understands (on a football field there are 52 other guys with 52 different personalities and such, so have to figure a way to engage and know how to influence those 52 other people to move to one common outcome The military is a good example of having a leadership cast....but it doesnt necessarily mean one has the leadership trait. If I had a nickle for every time I saved some 2nd Lt's arse from getting chewed by the Commander for making a mistake......I would have a lot of nickles. And I was a Buck Sgt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 to quote Tom terrifies wife "he throw and catch it" I watched that whole game. Every "reciver" we had on the field couldn't catch a cold. TT made some very nice throws.... hit guys in the hands... even one to clay.... in stride... for a first down, hit his freaken hands too. It looked to me that by the end of that game TT didn't trust a pass catcher we had. To be clear... he's not Tom Brady. But how can you fault TT for the amount of drops he had to contend with sunday. That is gonna happen when you are playing with 4th 5th 6th and 7th Wrs. How he deals with that adversity should show up this Monday. He better be spending quality time with Hunter Powell Tate and Harvin, and heck Bush ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) Does anyone else remember how Cam's best WR ( Kelvyn Benjamin) was out for the season last year yet they still Made it to the Super Bowl? I once saw the Houston Oilers win a payoff game without Earl Campbell. If you're a winner, you figure out how to win with what you got. If Hotrod was 26 for 30 with 4 drops, then yeah, the drops screwed him up. But he made more bad passes than he had drops by a wide margin. Edited November 4, 2016 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) impossible to judge we have no NFL caliber wideouts- when healthy and Roman caved in he showed promise as a passer to our only NFL wide out Sammy Watkins the way he has to play now is run a lot more, broken plays should be our bread and butter. Tate Powell Hunter Goodwin aren't going to force defenses into anything he's too inaccurate but even that is a tougher call because we don't handle so many catchable balls, (Tates hands are in the wrong position -last week - how does this happen at the NFL level) what I don't see is guys leaving their feet, or making a tough catch get Tyrods confidence going, yet I turn the channel and there is a guy on the ground pulling in a terrible throw from Brees or a leaping one hander from Eli these plays outside of Watkins aren't made by anyone. And this is everyweek when everyone is healthy I still think he can be a descent qb, have to play good defense and run the ball mixing in the play action. To fall behind 10-14 points put him in the gun and say okay Tate, Powell, Goodwin get open not a chance Panthers success last year purely schedule driven the playoff teams they played: Seattle, and a terrible texans and 8-8 redskins. Their trouble this year also schedule driven. Last year had Greg Olsen at 6-7 with 80 receptions and 1200 yards Edited November 4, 2016 by CardinalScotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 when everyone is healthy I still think he can be a descent qb Great, so we have found our QB for opening day. Beyond that, how many games can we expect every year "when everyone is healthy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 It's pretty hard not to blame the coaches as much as the QB. There are teams who set their teams up for success and teams who sacrifice players at the altar of their systems. Belichick looks at his roster and what is available cheap on the market and then adjusts his scheme to the players. Have no real deep threats? Have your short quick receivers run rub routes all day and take your shots down the field with your massive TEs. When he had Moss they went vertical all the time. He puts his team in a position to win. We don't have a great QB, why aren't we running short crossing routes and moving the pocket to get TT in space? Those are plays he can execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Does anyone else remember how Cam's best WR ( Kelvyn Benjamin) was out for the season last year yet they still Made it to the Super Bowl? I once saw the Houston Oilers win a payoff game without Earl Campbell. If you're a winner, you figure out how to win with what you got. If Hotrod was 26 for 30 with 4 drops, then yeah, the drops screwed him up. But he made more bad passes than he had drops by a wide margin. I really appreciate this perspective ! We are yet to be that Team. But we really need to to become that team. That is why i am pretty stoked about the Monday night game. and I know its just me and my inner homer, i do think this team is improving their self image and self worth. Started with Marrone. But Rex's Coaches , for all the who ha ing, are pretty darned serious about winning. Contrary to some opinions. BTW the Offense could not get rolling. Blame enough for everyone. esp ST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Does anyone else remember how Cam's best WR ( Kelvyn Benjamin) was out for the season last year yet they still Made it to the Super Bowl? I once saw the Houston Oilers win a payoff game without Earl Campbell. If you're a winner, you figure out how to win with what you got. If Hotrod was 26 for 30 with 4 drops, then yeah, the drops screwed him up. But he made more bad passes than he had drops by a wide margin. In 6 seasons, Cam has had 2 winning seasons. Is he a winner only when he occassionally wins and when he doesnt win its someone else's fault? Cam had an awesome year last yr despite Benjamin. But it was also his 5th yr as a starter and it was also his 3rd season starting with the same OC. Apples and oranges to Tyrod. And lets face it, Tyrod is not close to Cam's talent level. So if Cam can only have winning seasons .333 of the time and be called a winner, why cant Tyrod who had a winning season record last yr? It took Cam 3 full starting seasons to have a winning record in that putrid division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 It's pretty hard not to blame the coaches as much as the QB. There are teams who set their teams up for success and teams who sacrifice players at the altar of their systems. Belichick looks at his roster and what is available cheap on the market and then adjusts his scheme to the players. Have no real deep threats? Have your short quick receivers run rub routes all day and take your shots down the field with your massive TEs. When he had Moss they went vertical all the time. He puts his team in a position to win. We don't have a great QB, why aren't we running short crossing routes and moving the pocket to get TT in space? Those are plays he can execute. This is a fair question. I am sure getting the answer as not as simple as asking the question, but it is the correct question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 This is a fair question. I am sure getting the answer as not as simple as asking the question, but it is the correct question Yup. And Why our RB's had a total of 14 carries vs the Miami Dolphins is the question I want answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Yup. And Why our RB's had a total of 14 carries vs the Miami Dolphins is the question I want answered. A Lynn is not perfect. Most of can see that was not the best game plan, or adjustment. Maybe Mike was hurt too. and hindsight is better than reviewing the play. We get time to form strong opinions ! No offense to you Bob , just speaking out in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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