Cardale body language/ pocket presence very Jim Kelly??

[Bangarang]

One thing that impressed me about Cardale was his pocket awareness. He did a good job of stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field. It's one of those things that I don't think you can teach someone to be good at. We know he's got the huge arm and by all accounts he seems to be a level headed guy. He just really needs to work on his mechanics, specifically lower body and live in the film room. There seems to be some natural ability that you don't see in a lot of QBs, especially ones with as little experience as he has.

[Augie]

He does all of those things that you suggest well. He stands tall and is comfortable in the pocket. Cardale is 2 years away IMO but he has good instincts. He's a gamer.

For those questioning his draft status, if he came out a year earlier he probably would have been a top 10 pick. No one questions his talent. He is just raw (really raw). He isn't very consistent which is why he fell to the 3rd. He's not a 3rd round talent though. He has an extremely high ceiling and an extremely low floor. He was a risk to go early but it's not like Nassib (for example) that didn't have the tools.

He actually fell to the fourth, but more importantly for him, going in the top 10 would probably have been a disaster! There would be too much pressure to get him on the field early, and that's just not in his best interest. Given adequate time, who knows what the limits are? Fingers crossed. (And interesting that Tyrod has a year or two to show what he's got with team options.)

[YoloinOhio]

Thank you for the detail Yolo. Even though I hated watching the OS O in the games I watched last year (zzzz) It was clearly effective. Is there a chance Meyer will adapt to his personnel? Or will he just plow ahead HS style regardless?

he will adapt when he has to. But once Barrett was healthy (and that's his guy he handpicked to run his offense), he didn't have to, so he didn't.

 

I do think he will throw it more this year. Barrett has a decent arm. They have a ridiculous amount of talent stacked up at outside WR and they won't have Zeke to lean on so may not pound the call as much. They have a couple Percy Harvin type RB/WRs who are going to be used a ton in the horizontal passing game too.

Edited August 16, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Bocephuz]

One thing that impressed me about Cardale was his pocket awareness. He did a good job of stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes down field. It's one of those things that I don't think you can teach someone to be good at. We know he's got the huge arm and by all accounts he seems to be a level headed guy. He just really needs to work on his mechanics, specifically lower body and live in the film room. There seems to be some natural ability that you don't see in a lot of QBs, especially ones with as little experience as he has.

Yes. Even though he clearly has work to do he has naturally 'calm feet'.

 

For example EJ's natural instinct was to spin away, turn his back on downfield and scramble .. Now.. I will say EJ seems to have this tendency coached out of him but he still has his naturally 'nervous feet' in the pocket and it throws his timing off and generally makes him look awkward.

 

Thankfully both Tyrod and Cardale have 'calm feet'

[Virgil]

I know it's easy to want to Bill-ieve, but he did it against players that won't be on the roster in 3 weeks. He did it against vanilla defenses where you can just go out there and find the open guy. There weren't any timing throws, disguised defenses, or speed of a regular game.

[Kirby Jackson]

He actually fell to the fourth, but more importantly for him, going in the top 10 would probably have been a disaster! There would be too much pressure to get him on the field early, and that's just not in his best interest. Given adequate time, who knows what the limits are? Fingers crossed. (And interesting that Tyrod has a year or two to show what he's got with team options.)

I used to be able to count to 4 (whoops). They say the memory is the 1st thing to go.

[Mr. WEO]

maybe culpepper.

 

Bingo. This kid has at least 30 lbs on Jimbo in his prime.

 

Also, do we really have to keep telling the staff to "keep (the 3rd string QB) on the bench"? As opposed to ....what?

[Kirby Jackson]

I know it's easy to want to Bill-ieve, but he did it against players that won't be on the roster in 3 weeks. He did it against vanilla defenses where you can just go out there and find the open guy. There weren't any timing throws, disguised defenses, or speed of a regular game.

Again though, he did the same in the National Championship. The things that the OP is applauding him for are things that he has consistently done well. He's always been comfortable in the pocket. The game comes to him. He has accuracy issues (in large part b/c of the trust that he has in his arm) and he needs to work on reading defenses. I said it in another thread but the next time he gets happy feet in the pocket will be the 1st time.

he will adapt when he has to. But once Barrett was healthy (and that's his guy he handpicked to run his offense), he didn't have to, so he didn't.

 

I do think he will throw it more this year. Barrett has a decent arm. They have a ridiculous amount of talent stacked up at outside WR and they won't have Zeke to lean on so may not pound the call as much. They have a couple Percy Harvin type RB/WRs who are going to be used a ton in the horizontal passing game too.

They are going to have to utilize those WR's this year. I think Noah Brown has a huge year.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

I wasn't all that impressed. Throwing off balance, off his back foot and falling backwards. That'll work with guys who won't even make the league but won't work against a first team defense.

[Kirby Jackson]

I wasn't all that impressed. Throwing off balance, off his back foot and falling backwards. That'll work with guys who won't even make the league but won't work against a first team defense.

That's one of his biggest issues. He is one of about 3 guys in the world that can get away with it (Rodgers & Stafford). You can only get away with it sometimes though (even with his arm strength). He will definitely have to cut those throws way back.

[Bocephuz]

I know it's easy to want to Bill-ieve, but he did it against players that won't be on the roster in 3 weeks. He did it against vanilla defenses where you can just go out there and find the open guy. There weren't any timing throws, disguised defenses, or speed of a regular game.

Upon 5th review..His drops were generally a little fast and not timed up with his WR's routes...But his natural instinct to stand tall and wait a half second at the end of his drop to compensate still made him hit most of his receivers in stride

 

This is where coaching and time will help him

[gordong]

The biggest take away for me was his rife arm strength, and he looked comfortable in the pocket, and he even moved around a little without looking rattled. (that is huge) I see where your going. He has a ways to go but all the tools are there, can he master it??? only time will tell, but it a great start, should be fun to see his growth over the next couple years, hopefully! I'm actually encouraged, but still very thankful we have Tyrod! we have the makings of a solid foundation at QB (finally), too bad it's taken 25 years (or whatever it's been)

[Augie]

It helps to stand tall when you're almost as big as the guys (or bigger) trying to kill you. There's an inherent mental and physical benefit to having been a beast your whole life.

[mannc]

He does all of those things that you suggest well. He stands tall and is comfortable in the pocket. Cardale is 2 years away IMO but he has good instincts. He's a gamer.

 

For those questioning his draft status, if he came out a year earlier he probably would have been a top 10 pick. No one questions his talent. He is just raw (really raw). He isn't very consistent which is why he fell to the 3rd. He's not a 3rd round talent though. He has an extremely high ceiling and an extremely low floor. He was a risk to go early but it's not like Nassib (for example) that didn't have the tools.

I know you have watched a lot of Cardale, but why do you refer to him as "raw (really raw)"? (You're not the only one, of course.). Do you think he is more raw than Carson Wentz, who went number 2 overall? I don't. I think Cardale certainly needs work, but I think his "rawness" has been drastically oversold. IMO, his intangibles plus his outstanding physical tools make up for his relative lack of experience. He will be ready much sooner than many think.

[12Kachy]

Cut TT now!! J/K. Jones will need some time to develop. He may looked good for 24 minutes, but let's wait until the 4th preseason game against the lions to see what he does.

[Kirby Jackson]

I know you have watched a lot of Cardale, but why do you refer to him as "raw (really raw)"? (You're not the only one, of course.). Do you think he is more raw than Carson Wentz, who went number 2 overall? I don't. I think Cardale certainly needs work, but I think his "rawness" has been drastically oversold. IMO, his intangibles plus his outstanding physical tools make up for his relative lack of experience. He will be ready much sooner than many think.

His experience in a pro style and his accuracy. He makes some mind numbing throws (and can be wild high). He has a ton of confidence in his arm which sometimes leads to bad decisions. He hasn't had to go through progressions and get by with his mind. He's always fallen back on his immense physical talent. Urban's system is quite different from what you see in the NFL.

 

I believe in Cardale. I believe that he has a chance to be really good but we saw good Cardale the other night. If developed properly he has a chance to be more consistent. He's a guy (to date anyways) that has had good and bad. His peaks and valleys are higher (and lower) than many others. The trick will be to maximize the peaks and minimize the valleys.

 

Yolo, do you agree? Care to add anything else?

Edited August 16, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[mannc]

His experience in a pro style and his accuracy. He makes some mind numbing throws (and can be wild high). He has a ton of confidence in his arm which sometimes leads to bad decisions. He hasn't had to go through progressions and get by with his mind. He's always fallen back on his immense physical talent. Urban's system is quite different from what you see in the NFL.

 

I believe in Cardale. I believe that he has a chance to be really good but we saw good Cardale the other night. If developed properly he has a chance to be more consistent. He's a guy (to date anyways) that has had good and bad. His peaks and valleys are higher (and lower) than many others. The trick will be to maximize the peaks and minimize the valleys.

 

Yolo, do you agree? Care to add anything else?

Do you think he's more "raw" than Wentz? Aren't almost all rookie QBs raw, to some degree?

[Augie]

How many college games did Wentz play at QB? And Cardale? Very different backgrounds in experience as well as the talent level of the surrounding team and competition. To summarize, I have no friggin' idea.

[Kirby Jackson]

Do you think he's more "raw" than Wentz? Aren't almost all rookie QBs raw, to some degree?

Same league as Wentz I would say. Cardale didn't play a ton of games and played in a spread. The nice thing about him is his skill set is more of a pro skill set than most zone read QBs. He's a pocket passer that played in Urban's system.

 

There are varying degrees of "raw" for rookie QBs IMO. As an example Jameis was asked to do a ton of pro type of things in college. He was way further along in his development than most. There's also guys like Luck that played a ton of games and in a pro style offense. There are certain guys that come out that are "safe." Cardale has the skills to match just about anyone but there are a lot of unanswered questions on him still that some guys don't have.

[YoloinOhio]

His experience in a pro style and his accuracy. He makes some mind numbing throws (and can be wild high). He has a ton of confidence in his arm which sometimes leads to bad decisions. He hasn't had to go through progressions and get by with his mind. He's always fallen back on his immense physical talent. Urban's system is quite different from what you see in the NFL.

 

I believe in Cardale. I believe that he has a chance to be really good but we saw good Cardale the other night. If developed properly he has a chance to be more consistent. He's a guy (to date anyways) that has had good and bad. His peaks and valleys are higher (and lower) than many others. The trick will be to maximize the peaks and minimize the valleys.

 

Yolo, do you agree? Care to add anything else?

i agree. He has a bit of an issue with YOLO passes (no relation). Will sometimes get him in trouble. Instead of taking a sack or running when a play breaks down sometimes he just throws it up in a WR's general direction and prays. His mechanics (feet) need a ton of polish. He needs a good QB coach and the right system to fit his strengths. I think he has that here, which was why I was so excited when we drafted him. He likes to throw the 50/50 ball and doesn't just wait for a WR to look open. This will pay off with a guy like Watkins. One thing I don't like is he often underthrows the deep ball. I can't figure out why this is. Lack of touch? Certainly not arm strength.