What is Gilmore actually worth to the Bills....

[GunnerBill]

 

So we replace Gilmore's 5th year option with a new deal and offer Tyrod an extension on the year he has left?

 

The Bills current top 51 + rookie pool gives us $6.5m in cap room so that gives us a lot of leeway to really pump money in Gilmore this year.

Yep that would be my plan.

[Mad Mike]

He's very good and I'm glad the Bills have him, but as one of the "Top CBs in the NFL," I'd like to see him improve his hands and snag more picks. I'm not sure if he's worth top CB money right now, but I don't have a problem with Buffalo giving him a big contract - he seems to have a good attitude and plays more mental than emotional.

[Blokestradamus]

Yep that would be my plan.

 

Also gets a major chunk of his guaranteed money out of the way by the time a new contract for Darby is on the table.

 

Works for me.

[GunnerBill]

 

Also gets a major chunk of his guaranteed money out of the way by the time a new contract for Darby is on the table.

 

Works for me.

Exactly. We have shunted enough money back we need to pay some now because we have Tyrod, Sammy and Darby coming down the line whose deals will overlap at least with Glenn, Gilmore, Dareus and Clay. Edited July 15, 2016 by GunnerBill

[John from Riverside]

If there is a way to keep both Im all for it......love the Gilmore/Darby tandem

 

I just think we might actually have a QB that we wont want to replace in a year......allowing us to groom a kid who REALLY needs that time.

[yungmack]

CBs are the new LTs insofar as their perceived value, which is why they are getting the huge contracts, and the price is going to continue to soar. So if the Bills give Gilmore a top three-to-five contract now, it will likely seem a bargain in 3 or 4 years.

[BarleyNY]

So we replace Gilmore's 5th year option with a new deal and offer Tyrod an extension on the year he has left?

 

The Bills current top 51 + rookie pool gives us $6.5m in cap room so that gives us a lot of leeway to really pump money in Gilmore this year.

That would be an absolutely awful idea even if it were possible. Which it really isn't. 5th year options are fully guaranteed on the first day of the league year, which was in March. The Bills are on the hook for the full amount unless they were to trade him. But why dump Gilmore? There's no one to take his place opposite Darby and Rex's scheme needs CBs like him.

 

Does any of that money carry over if we don't spend it?

Any unused cap space can be carried forward into the next season. That doesn't apply to Gilmore's 5th year option because it is fully guaranteed. Edited July 15, 2016 by BarleyNY

[GunnerBill]

 

That would be an absolutely awful idea even if it were possible. Which it really isn't. 5th year options are fully guaranteed on the first day of the league year, which was in March. The Bills are on the hook for the full amount unless they were to trade him. But why dump Gilmore? There's no one to take his place opposite Darby and Rex's scheme needs CBs like him.

 

I think you misunderstood Blokes. He meant replace the 5th year option with a new contract, he didn't mean replace Gilmore. Personally my negotiating tactic to extend Gilmore would be to replace his $11million guaranteed this year with a deal that guarantees him more money in 2016 and increases his cap number this year.

 

So something like, 5 years, $69m with $34m guaranteed ($13.8m p/y average) broken down like:

 

$20million signing bonus spread over 5 years

 

2016 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($14m guaranteed)

2017 - Base: $7m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $11m ($8m guaranteed)

2018 - Base: $8m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $12m ($6m guaranteed)

2019 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($4m guaranteed)

2020 - Base: $14m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $18m ($4m guaranteed)

 

That promise of additional money up front this year (in essence you would be handing him $30m dollars with the signing bonus and this year's salary) allows you to manage the hit through 2017 and 2018 when we still have some bigger contracts of older vets on the books (think Kyle, Shady and Richie) and then escalates Gilmore's pay as those deals fall away but not at such a level, given cap inflation, that it should preclude deals with the likes of Tyrod and Sammy and Darby.

Edited July 15, 2016 by GunnerBill

[BarleyNY]

I think you misunderstood Blokes. He meant replace the 5th year option with a new contract, he didn't mean replace Gilmore. Personally my negotiating tactic to extend Gilmore would be to replace his $11million guaranteed this year with a deal that guarantees him more money in 2016 and increases his cap number this year.

 

So something like, 5 years, $69m with $34m guaranteed ($13.8m p/y average) broken down like:

 

$20million signing bonus spread over 5 years

 

2016 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($14m guaranteed)

2017 - Base: $7m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $11m ($8m guaranteed)

2018 - Base: $8m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $12m ($6m guaranteed)

2019 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($4m guaranteed)

2020 - Base: $14m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $18m ($4m guaranteed)

 

That promise of additional money up front this year (in essence you would be handing him $30m dollars with the signing bonus and this year's salary) allows you to manage the hit through 2017 and 2018 when we still have some bigger contracts of older vets on the books (think Kyle, Shady and Richie) and then escalates Gilmore's pay as those deals fall away but not at such a level, given cap inflation, that it should preclude deals with the likes of Tyrod and Sammy and Darby.

 

Ah. Thought he meant to cut Gilmore. I do not see a lot of cap relief from a new contract for Gilmore though. Your example of a potential contract illustrates that.

[Estro]

Gilmore is a $12M/year CB. Problem is Norman got $15M/year with tons of guarantees. So, Gilmore on the open market is probably going to command at least $14M per, and I don't think the Bills will go there with him.

 

If Bills don't use franchise on Tyrod, Gilmore will be a prime candidate for the tag next year. The tag will likely be a touch over $14M in '17. He's set to make $11M this year. So we control his next 2 years for $25M, if we can use the tag on him next year, which seems like a fair value.

 

For a player that's missed 3-4 games per year, I'd be hesitant to do a long term deal with Stephon. Let him play out '17 and then see where you're at. By then maybe you decide to give an extension to Darby and let Gilmore walk, picking up a 3rd round comp. pick in the process.

[Dave in Avon Lake now]

I was wondering if anyone has heard what is going on with Gilmore now that the signing period for tagged players has passed. I can't remember the rules. Does that mean we can't negotiate until after the season? Do player agents talk to teams during this period? When exactly can they discuss things again? Just a few questions on my mind as I would hate to lose him after the year.

[GunnerBill]

I was wondering if anyone has heard what is going on with Gilmore now that the signing period for tagged players has passed. I can't remember the rules. Does that mean we can't negotiate until after the season? Do player agents talk to teams during this period? When exactly can they discuss things again? Just a few questions on my mind as I would hate to lose him after the year.

 

Gilmore isn't tagged, we have exercised our 5th year team option which does not preclude us from continuing to negotiate. He can be tagged next offseason if a deal hasn't been done.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

and that is what the NFL has become.

its just business...

No kidding. Did this just happen??

[Thurman#1]

Whether Gilmore is a top-5, top-10, or top-20 corner is immaterial. He's a bona fide #1 corner, and he's going to get paid like one (here or elsewhere).

 

That said, he's among the 10 best corners in the game. He's excellent in coverage and matches up well against the bigger WRs in the league.

 

The myth of the shutdown corner would have folks believing that you can't be elite and allow a catch at any point in the season, but most folks that watch a lot of NFL games know the difference.

 

I watch every NFL game every week, and the guys that I believe can reasonably be put ahead of Gilmore include:

 

Sherman

Revis

Peterson

Norman

V. Davis

 

Beyond that, you've got a next group that is comprised of:

 

Gilmore

Slay

Haden

Harris Jr.

Trufant

Butler

 

So I suppose I'm fine ranking Gilmore anywhere from 6 to 11, but anywhere beyond that is, IMO, crazy talk.

 

 

 

Right on, IMHO. I might extend 11 just one or two more, but yeah, top 13 or so without much doubt, IMHO.

 

The thing is, when you have two CBs who can really play man - and Darby and Gilmore both can - your defensive options open up to include practically anything. It frees up your front seven, or maybe eight since a safety can generally play closer to the line when you've got that kind of ability, to play however the coach wants to play. It allows Ryan to do what he wants in terms of blitzing or not, trick blitzing, zone blitzing, or faking the blitz and rushing four. It allows you more time to get to the QB.

 

It's big for any defense, and more so for the Ryans'.

[Thurman#1]

 

I think you misunderstood Blokes. He meant replace the 5th year option with a new contract, he didn't mean replace Gilmore. Personally my negotiating tactic to extend Gilmore would be to replace his $11million guaranteed this year with a deal that guarantees him more money in 2016 and increases his cap number this year.

 

So something like, 5 years, $69m with $34m guaranteed ($13.8m p/y average) broken down like:

 

$20million signing bonus spread over 5 years

 

2016 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($14m guaranteed)

2017 - Base: $7m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $11m ($8m guaranteed)

2018 - Base: $8m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $12m ($6m guaranteed)

2019 - Base: $10m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $14m ($4m guaranteed)

2020 - Base: $14m; Signing Bonus $4m - Cap Hit: $18m ($4m guaranteed)

 

That promise of additional money up front this year (in essence you would be handing him $30m dollars with the signing bonus and this year's salary) allows you to manage the hit through 2017 and 2018 when we still have some bigger contracts of older vets on the books (think Kyle, Shady and Richie) and then escalates Gilmore's pay as those deals fall away but not at such a level, given cap inflation, that it should preclude deals with the likes of Tyrod and Sammy and Darby.

 

 

 

I'd agree they might get him to sign with that contract. And that he's worth it. But it would cost them $3 mill more on the cap this year, correct?

 

So we'd be down to $3.5 mill in unused cap money ... at least as of right now. That would pretty much eliminate the chance of bringing in injury replacements and/or signing Tyrod after or during the season if he has improved the way we all hope he will.

 

They generally don't go into the season with so little cap left, and for good reason. Especially in a year that may be do or die for the coach and the GM.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

 

I'd agree they might get him to sign with that contract. And that he's worth it. But it would cost them $3 mill more on the cap this year, correct?

 

So we'd be down to $3.5 mill in unused cap money ... at least as of right now. That would pretty much eliminate the chance of bringing in injury replacements and/or signing Tyrod after or during the season if he has improved the way we all hope he will.

 

They generally don't go into the season with so little cap left, and for good reason. Especially in a year that may be do or die for the coach and the GM.

 

It would cost us $3m on the cap and it would leave us at $3.5m of space or thereabouts. That is still sufficient to bring in a few injury replacements if necessary. Maybe take another million back then. There is room to extend Tyrod. You just have to do it in such a way that doesn't change his 2016 cap number. That is the basis of my whole suggestion. Replace Gilmore's 5th year with a new deal but wait and extend Tyrod. You are going to be giving Taylor a huge payday next year whatever happens, I see no benefit in using any space this year to extend him, whereas we are only keeping Gilmore with an extension because if they both make January as impending UFA then you are tagging your Quarterback (unless he stinks this year).

[John from Riverside]

Gilmore is a $12M/year CB. Problem is Norman got $15M/year with tons of guarantees. So, Gilmore on the open market is probably going to command at least $14M per, and I don't think the Bills will go there with him.

 

If Bills don't use franchise on Tyrod, Gilmore will be a prime candidate for the tag next year. The tag will likely be a touch over $14M in '17. He's set to make $11M this year. So we control his next 2 years for $25M, if we can use the tag on him next year, which seems like a fair value.

 

For a player that's missed 3-4 games per year, I'd be hesitant to do a long term deal with Stephon. Let him play out '17 and then see where you're at. By then maybe you decide to give an extension to Darby and let Gilmore walk, picking up a 3rd round comp. pick in the process.

If we decide to do this I hope we go heavy on corner backs in this next draft.

 

I know that fans will hate that.....but it will be needed......we need some Marlon Kerner/Kenny Irvin types

[3rdand12]

No kidding. Did this just happen??

Not sure. I just fell off the Turnip truck this morning, again.

Edited July 18, 2016 by 3rdand12

[hondo in seattle]

Gilmore supposedly prepared to play out the final year of his contract.

 

Sounds like a negotiating ploy. At least he's not sitting out.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000676230/article/bills-cb-stephon-gilmore-will-play-out-contract-in-2016

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/756532395285831680

Edited July 22, 2016 by hondo in seattle

[YoloinOhio]

Gilmore supposedly prepared to play out the final year of his contract.

 

Sounds like a negotiating ploy. At least he's not sitting out.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000676230/article/bills-cb-stephon-gilmore-will-play-out-contract-in-2016

 

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/756532395285831680

agent gave info to Rapaport. IMO. Still think he could sign at any point. Absolutely a negotiating ploy. If the Bills really want to keep him they won't let him get to FA. Edited July 22, 2016 by YoloinOhio