9 in 10 Native Americans aren’t offended by Redskins name

[DrDawkinstein]

Folks, there's hundreds of Native American high schools and middle schools that use implied derogatory names for their teams. The media completely ignores this and continues on the path of trying to make a villain out of the Washington Redskins. I'm about 12.5% Five Nations-Seneca Tribe-Waterson Clan and just don't see it. It comes down to context for me, and if you're going to make the Redskins team name a bad thing, then we need to make every rapper using the "N-word" a bad thing as well. Now I don't believe that necessarily either, as again, I think you have to put it everything in context. Redskins, Yankees, Indians, Patriots, Browns, and many other team names can offend someone that puts the name in their own context. Does that mean we should abandon all of sports history in the name of being politically correct for the minority? Sounds pretty stupid to me all around.

 

You obviously dont live in or near Lancaster, NY.

 

Luckily, common sense and decency prevailed over ignorance entrenched in some sort of fantasy history: http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/schools/the-votes-are-in-and-pro-redskins-candidates-are-out-in-lancaster-20160517

 

Driving around this burb, every time I see a stupid "Once a Redskin, Always a Redskin" sticker on a car, it is driven by some over-entitled, under-educated, middle-aged white person and never a true "redskin". Pathetic.

Edited May 20, 2016 by DrDareustein

[B-Man]

Maybe they should have polled white, urban SJWs to get the 'correct' answer.

 

Palefaces whitesplains to child-like Native Americans who are incapable of understanding what is so clear to them.

[Luxy312]

 

If the "media completely ignores this," did you find out for yourself by driving around the country checking for mascot names? Or did you learn it in the media?

 

I respect your point of view. While we can argue numbers, certainly a substantial percentage of Native Americans do not consider the word offensive.

 

So do we just say FU to the ones that do? Or can we respect their point of view, too?

 

Mainstream media does completely ignore it. Google and Bing searches and a bit of research and you can learn the truth about pretty much anything. In terms of who finds what offensive, where do you draw the line? THAT is my point. Should we protest every African American rapper that uses the N-word in their "music"? Some will obviously be offended, so where's the group lining up to take offense? Are you going to join the protest to remove "In God We Trust" from our currency because it offends Muslims? While we're at it, I don't like the Padres name because it's Spanish for priest. Religion has no place in professional sports. Let's also protest the Milwaukee Brewers for those that don't imbibe alcohol. My point is pretty clear here. When American Indians themselves stop using derogatory terms for their sports teams, then maybe there will be something to talk about in terms of professional sports. Until that point in time comes, this is just another media ax to grind.

[metzelaars_lives]

The thing that I would say is that I'm sure as generations go by, new generations probably don't care as much. I have spent lots of time on probably the most prominent reservation in the country (Pine Ridge, SD) and I can tell you that all the kids all listen to hip hop and love basketball and football. Sadly, very few are concerned with preserving their culture and traditions. I'm sure if you asked most 17-year old kids on the rez, they are way more interested in the NFL than reading or caring about the history of Geronimo. Conversely, I'm sure if you polled tribal leaders who oversee sweat lodges every week, that percentage would me much, much higher. It would shock me if it wasn't over 50%.

 

That being said, no one is saying it's the equivalent of the n-word or anything like that (probably more the equivalent of "negroes"- imagine that for a team name). It's just like, "hey guys, we were here for 70,000 years and within a century you pretty much wiped us off the planet with genocidal warfare and lies, etc. Though some of us remain proud, we have been reduced to a rather pathetic lot. Do you really have to use our likeness for your silly game? And if you are, that is not what we call or ever called ourselves."

 

This is a complicated one guys. As a liberal, I can even see the argument to keep it. When the team was named, it was a very different time and I am positive the intent was a good one. But the folks who oversimplify this matter with the "PC police" stuff- even it IS only 10% (which it isn't), that's still a lot of people. Think of how much of a jerk you would sound to them. I'm sure if you sat with an elder or two who did disapprove of the name for a night, they might be able to help you see their side of the argument.

Edited May 20, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[JP's Voice]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

[Jauronimo]

 

 

 

 

Its a derogatory term used by trolls to refer to normal people that bother to argue with trolls on the internet. Sort of like a millennial version of the term, "libtard." Accordingly, the vast majority of the people wielding the cudgel are less intelligent and less reasonable than the vast majority of the people it is wielded against.

Found the SJW. Are you outraged??? Please tell me you're outraged.

 

There is certainly a new breed of Social justice Warrior with incredibly warped views about the role of government and what constitutes injustice. Check out what was happening at Yale over Halloween costumes or why Jerry Seinfeld won't perform at college campuses anymore. There's a growing movement of kids who think its their right to go through life having never experienced words or ideas that cause discomfort. They measure their morality by their capacity for outrage and offense. They have no concept of, or respect for, freedom of speech.

[klos63]

Wouldnt the Cleveland "Indians" be offensive? And someone named Bill might take offense to the Buffalo Bills so let's change that too

The logo of Chief Wahoo is offensive for the Cleveland Indians . The Bill/Bills comment is just plain stupid so we'll just ignore that one.

[Dopey]

Wouldnt the Cleveland "Indians" be offensive? And someone named Bill might take offense to the Buffalo Bills so let's change that too

I think in the Cleveland Indians scenario, it's the red faced Indian as the mascot/character on their uniforms that may be found as offensive more than anything. In this case, I don't see how the Indians can find a mascot that will satisfy everyone. Would it be ok if he was a little more brown skinned than red? In any event, I don't think any of these mascots were ever intended to offend. Side note: I have season tickets to FSU football. They are the FSU Seminoles and I join in on the tomahawk chop as a way to cheer our guys on. Never have I felt that I was doing it to offend anyone and still don't. The Seminole name is never used in that manner from what I can tell. It shows that as a unified team, they are strong just like the Seminole Tribe and kick ass! Any other assertion, I just don't see it and I've been going to games here since '93. What ever happened to being able to dress as a Mexican or "Indian" for Halloween?!? Now it's offensive but people dress as cowboys and it's ok. True story, my daughter dressed as Pocahontas for Halloween because she thought she was beautiful and some kids mother gave me a snide comment in front of her. I told her that it was because she saw her as beautiful and you just hurt her feelings. She saw her error and apologized. People are too PC today and fighting too many battles, imo.

[3rdand12]

as long as the Patriots are renamed " White Devils" i am fine with it

[klos63]

The thing that I would say is that I'm sure as generations go by, new generations probably don't care as much. I have spent lots of time on probably the most prominent reservation in the country (Pine Ridge, SD) and I can tell you that all the kids all listen to hip hop and love basketball and football. Sadly, very few are concerned with preserving their culture and traditions. I'm sure if you asked most 17-year old kids on the rez, they are way more interested in the NFL than reading or caring about the history of Geronimo. Conversely, I'm sure if you polled tribal leaders who oversee sweat lodges every week, that percentage would me much, much higher. It would shock me if it wasn't over 50%.

 

That being said, no one is saying it's the equivalent of the n-word or anything like that. It's just like, "hey guys, we were here for 70,000 years and within a century you pretty much wiped us off the planet with genocidal warfare and lies, etc. Though some of us remain proud, we have been reduced to a rather pathetic lot. Do you really have to use our likeness for your silly game? And if you are, that is not what we call or ever called ourselves."

 

This is a complicated one guys. As a liberal, I can even see the argument to keep it. When the team was named, it was a very different time and I am positive the intent was a good one. But the folks who oversimplify this matter with the "PC police" stuff- even it IS only 10% (which it isn't), that's still a lot of people. Think of how much of a jerk you would sound to them. I'm sure if you sat with an elder or two who did disapprove of the name for a night, they might be able to help you see their side of the argument.

Well done. The problem is that most people don't care if they offend any group of people, and many seem to enjoy offending others(Trump).

[3rdand12]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

Democracy in action

[metzelaars_lives]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

GREAT name by the way.

[Jauronimo]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

If it was 9 out of 10 dentists, you'd be changing your brand of toothpaste. How about a little perspective?

[klos63]

I think in the Cleveland Indians scenario, it's the red faced Indian as the mascot/character on their uniforms that may be found as offensive more than anything. In this case, I don't see how the Indians can find a mascot that will satisfy everyone. Would it be ok if he was a little more brown skinned than red? In any event, I don't think any of these mascots were ever intended to offend. Side note: I have season tickets to FSU football. They are the FSU Seminoles and I join in on the tomahawk chop as a way to cheer our guys on. Never have I felt that I was doing it to offend anyone and still don't. The Seminole name is never used in that manner from what I can tell. It shows that as a unified team, they are strong just like the Seminole Tribe and kick ass! Any other assertion, I just don't see it and I've been going to games here since '93. What ever happened to being able to dress as a Mexican or "Indian" for Halloween?!? Now it's offensive but people dress as cowboys and it's ok. True story, my daughter dressed as Pocahontas for Halloween because she thought she was beautiful and some kids mother gave me a snide comment in front of her. I told her that it was because she saw her as beautiful and you just hurt her feelings. She saw her error and apologized. People are too PC today and fighting too many battles, imo.

When I attended St Bonaventure in the 80's, the team mascot had full headdress, the usual indian look that we saw on mascots. Eventually, the got rid of the mascot, and made the logo a more traditional looking Native American. All done with respect and no fanfare. It can be done.

[DC Tom]

 

?

 

Social Justice Warrior. Anyone who holds the shallow and childish view of being grievously offended, and loudly proclaims their offense, on behalf of a third party who they believe isn't aware of and needs to be taught how offended they should be by said offense.

 

For example: rich, white busy-bodies who act like Native Americans' biggest problem is "Washington Redskins," while ignoring the rampant alcoholism and grinding poverty that oppresses Native Americans.

[Dorkington]

21% finding the term disrespectful is enough to change the name, imo.

 

But I'm also kinda of tired of the debate.

[Mr. WEO]

I have spent lots of time on probably the most prominent reservation in the country (Pine Ridge, SD) and I can tell you that all the kids all listen to hip hop and love basketball and football. Sadly, very few are concerned with preserving their culture and traditions. I'm sure if you asked most 17-year old kids on the rez, they are way more interested in the NFL than reading or caring about the history of Geronimo. Conversely, I'm sure if you polled tribal leaders who oversee sweat lodges every week, that percentage would me much, much higher. It would shock me if it wasn't over 50%.

 

 

 

 

Did you ever ask them, "why are you still living on a reservation?".

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Social Justice Warrior. Anyone who holds the shallow and childish view of being grievously offended, and loudly proclaims their offense, on behalf of a third party who they believe isn't aware of and needs to be taught how offended they should be by said offense.

 

For example: rich, white busy-bodies who act like Native Americans' biggest problem is "Washington Redskins," while ignoring the rampant alcoholism and grinding poverty that oppresses Native Americans.

No one on planet Earth- Native Americans or otherwise- thinks that the name 'Washington Redskins' is a greater problem in the Native American community than poverty and alcoholism. Like zero people.

[Jauronimo]

 

 

Did you ever ask them, "why are you still living on a reservation?".

I've been axing all the people in the projects why they still live there. If its so bad and bleak there, why not go live in the Hamptons where opportunity and success are just handed to you? Seems like common sense to me.

[Luxy312]

 

Social Justice Warrior. Anyone who holds the shallow and childish view of being grievously offended, and loudly proclaims their offense, on behalf of a third party who they believe isn't aware of and needs to be taught how offended they should be by said offense.

 

For example: rich, white busy-bodies who act like Native Americans' biggest problem is "Washington Redskins," while ignoring the rampant alcoholism and grinding poverty that oppresses Native Americans.

 

Well said/written!

[Malazan]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

 

This is the most idiotic thing posted in here. This logic is insane. Where does it end? Someone is always offended by something.

 

Question the sample size, the accuracy, etc, but holy hand grenade, Can you imagine a world where if 10% of people are "offended" by something that we do away with it?

[Jauronimo]

No one on planet Earth- Native Americans or otherwise- thinks that the name 'Washington Redskins' is a greater problem in the Native American community than poverty and alcoholism. Like zero people.

Put up a picture of a college girl dressed like slutty Pocahontas and a pic of daily life on the Rez on Facebook and see which one draws more attention. "Cultural appropriation" or destitute poverty?

[dwight in philly]

I've been axing all the people in the projects why they still live there. If its so bad and bleak there, why not go live in the Hamptons where opportunity and success are just handed to you? Seems like common sense to me.

Edited May 20, 2016 by dwight in philly

[Malazan]

No one on planet Earth- Native Americans or otherwise- thinks that the name 'Washington Redskins' is a greater problem in the Native American community than poverty and alcoholism. Like zero people.

 

Given the amount of attention given to each issue, it certainly seems like the name of a football team is a much larger issue.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Social Justice Warrior. Anyone who holds the shallow and childish view of being grievously offended, and loudly proclaims their offense, on behalf of a third party who they believe isn't aware of and needs to be taught how offended they should be by said offense.

 

For example: rich, white busy-bodies who act like Native Americans' biggest problem is "Washington Redskins," while ignoring the rampant alcoholism and grinding poverty that oppresses Native Americans.

 

Or: rich, white busy-bodies who act like changing a team mascot will rip all of their own memories and pride away. Seriously, come check out the beauties in Lancaster that are losing their **** over changing their school mascot. You'd think the school board was trying to burn their houses down.

 

It baffles me that white people feel so strongly about having to keep it.

 

Who cares if you are called the Legends from now on? At least its not insulting an entire group of people.

 

Given the amount of attention given to each issue, it certainly seems like the name of a football team is a much larger issue.

 

Because the media knows the NFL will get viewers (especially controversy in the NFL), while helping people improve their situation is boring and bad TV.

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Given the amount of attention given to each issue, it certainly seems like the name of a football team is a much larger issue.

What does the amount of media attention have anything to do with anything? It is a hot button topic, as evidenced by this thread. Was Casey Anthony killing her daughter the most "important" issue of whatever year that was? There is little to no correlation between how important an issue is and how much media attention it gets. Blame the media if you want.

Edited May 20, 2016 by metzelaars_lives

[BarleyNY]

The logo of Chief Wahoo is offensive for the Cleveland Indians . The Bill/Bills comment is just plain stupid so we'll just ignore that one.

They still use the logo, but when they built their current ballpark in 1994 they were careful to not put it on any permanent fixture anywhere in the park. Seems like they didn't think the logo and/or name were certain to outlive the park.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BarleyNY

[B-Man]

What does the amount of media attention have anything to do with anything? It is a hot button topic, as evidenced by this thread. Was Casey Anthony killing her daughter the most "important" issue of whatever year that was?

 

 

The poll clearly demonstrates that it is not..........................to the very people you "feel" it should be.

 

 

It is a media driven topic.

 

 

.

[Mr. WEO]

I've been axing all the people in the projects why they still live there. If its so bad and bleak there, why not go live in the Hamptons where opportunity and success are just handed to you? Seems like common sense to me.

 

Oh Jauronimo, I expected it wouldn't be you!

 

Anyway, the obvious difference is that American government and society have been pouring billions into the plight of urban poverty (with some positive results, but not much), and are now forcing affluent municipalities around the country (most famously Baltimore and North Texas suburbs so far) to provide low income housing and increasing rent vouchers, etc.

 

For the American Indians, the same government does really nothing other than perpetuate their misery in these poverty camps. But they will certainly stand with the indigenous people when it comes to derogatory nomenclature.

 

But my question, despite your quick dismissal is an obvious one and isn't mitigated by the plight of the urban poor. .

Edited May 20, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[Jauronimo]

 

Oh Jauronimo, I expected it wouldn't be you!

 

Anyway, the obvious difference is that American government and society have been pouring billions into the plight of urban poverty (with some positive results, but not much), and are now forcing affluent municipalities around the country (most famously Baltimore and North Texas suburbs so far) to provide low income housing and increasing rent vouchers, etc.

 

For the American Indians, the same government does really nothing other than perpetuate their misery in these poverty camps. But they will certainly stand with the indigenous people when it comes to derogatory nomenclature.

 

But my question, despite your quick dismissal is an obvious one and isn't mitigated by the plight of the urban poor. .

1. It was a joke.

2. As I'm sure you know, its not easy for many people, even people with the means and resources, to leave home. To rather glibly ask, why don't they leave, is an over simplification and begs for the response I gave you.

[Malazan]

 

Or: rich, white busy-bodies who act like changing a team mascot will rip all of their own memories and pride away. Seriously, come check out the beauties in Lancaster that are losing their **** over changing their school mascot. You'd think the school board was trying to burn their houses down.

 

It baffles me that white people feel so strongly about having to keep it.

 

Who cares if you are called the Legends from now on? At least its not insulting an entire group of people.

 

Because the media knows the NFL will get viewers (especially controversy in the NFL), while helping people improve their situation is boring and bad TV.

 

 

What does the amount of media attention have anything to do with anything? It is a hot button topic, as evidenced by this thread. Was Casey Anthony killing her daughter the most "important" issue of whatever year that was? There is little to no correlation between how important an issue is and how much media attention it gets. Blame the media if you want.

 

You assumed I was talking about the media which is very telling. I was talking about *you*. Your attention is focused on this issue.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

 

You assumed I was talking about the media which is very telling. I was talking about *you*. Your attention is focused on this issue.

 

Make a thread about the other stuff and I'll join in on that one too. Neither Metz nor I started this thread or discussion, just contributed to it in the (obviously) boring dregs of the offseason.

[jr1]

[Beef Jerky]

SJW= Social Justice Warrior. SJWs are generally crazy people that believe some really crazy ****.

 

These are people that think air conditioning is sexist:

 

 

 

Apparently it's sexist to ban all single gender clubs, and not exclude women from that rule:

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/05/09/harvard-women-rally-against-single-gender-policy/h8AqIk3ub40v2cnLap4gFP/story.html

 

 

There are many, many more examples but the general rule is that SJWs wish the oppressed to become the opressors.

So the next time a woman has a hot flash and turns the air on I can tell them to stop being sexist?

[Mr. WEO]

1. It was a joke.

2. As I'm sure you know, its not easy for many people, even people with the means and resources, to leave home. To rather glibly ask, why don't they leave, is an over simplification and begs for the response I gave you.

 

It wasn't meant to be glib. I have always wondered this. It is really not like the urban situation at all. Most if not all of those people would rather move up and on. The situation seems to be the opposite for the reservations.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Doesn't understand the vast importance of changing an NFL team's name.

 

 

 

 

.

[NY Nole]

So because "9 out of 10" are not offended, we should keep offending the other 10% and continue using a derogatory racial slur? Got it

You offend me. So I think you should stop posting on this board all together. Then I can implement the same philosophy to anyone else that I deem to be offensive and soon I will be the only one allowed to post. If you are offended, don't buy a Redskins branded product, turn the channel or find another outlet that brings tranquility to your daily life. It is the beauty of living in this country.

[JP's Voice]

You offend me. So I think you should stop posting on this board all together. Then I can implement the same philosophy to anyone else that I deem to be offensive and soon I will be the only one allowed to post. If you are offended, don't buy a Redskins branded product, turn the channel or find another outlet that brings tranquility to your daily life. It is the beauty of living in this country.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with what you say. It just seems that by saying 9/10 are okay with it justifies the use of a term that is offensive to many people (well if only 90% of this population is offended by the name then I guess I'll have to cut my losses with the other 10%). I know that nobody has to support the team if they're offended by it. However, just because saying 9/10 people are okay with it doesn't really make the behavior right or appropriate (using the racial slur redskin). I expect more from the powerful in this situation (a professional football team) than the random fan. I would expect the team to be a leader in trying to end the bias, rather than just plugging along because 10% are offended. My logic and my opinion has nothing to do with what the behavior should be of the club. But then again they are a business trying to make money...

[....lybob]

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/06/04/67-percent-native-americans-say-redskins-offensive-155143

[B-Man]

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/06/04/67-percent-native-americans-say-redskins-offensive-155143

 

Your 2014 article purports to debunk the "famous" 1994 poll.

 

and (ironically) uses all of the partisan tactics that you so often assign to any conservative articles. Did you read about the articles source ?

 

. James Fenelon, Lakota/Dakota from Standing Rock, a sociology professor at California State University, San Bernardino, compiled his own data

 

The new WAPO poll certainly has as much credence as the one in your reply.