Maury Ballstein Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Any or all of the Buckeyes in the draft are welcome. Would love to see Cardale as a backup option for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) Jones on day three of the draft wouldn't piss me off. If we take him before that I would be. The first three rounds should be defense, defense, and maybe OL if not all three defense. This^ It literally makes no sense to draft a QB within the first three rounds if Tyrod Taylor is staying on this team. Taylor is still very young and will be a long term starting QB. You need to fortify the defense and offense around your young QB, not take another QB high in the draft, blowing a pick on a guy that's not going to play for three years. Now if the Bills plan on trading Tyrod to the Broncos, then we can talk about using a 2nd or 3rd rd pick for Cardale. But that won't be the play either, if they trade Taylor it will be after they've picked Paxton Lynch (be it through a trade up or having him drop to them). I can't believe we're back into the QB draft discussion, but thanks to Taylor and his loudmouth classless agent, we're right back there again. Edited April 9, 2016 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 an FU to Tyrod's agent to pick a guy who is a long shot to play anywhere in the NFL? It's more of an FU to Manuel. Jones's chances of making an NFL roster in 5 years are slim. His chances of starting in the NFL are slimmer. Jones is a definition of a project QB, ie, a QB who is way more likely to do nothing than something. I don't see this as a shot across anyone's bow except EJ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 to pick a guy who is a long shot to play anywhere in the NFL? It's more of an FU to Manuel. Jones's chances of making an NFL roster in 5 years are slim. His chances of starting in the NFL are slimmer. Jones is a definition of a project QB, ie, a QB who is way more likely to do nothing than something. I don't see this as a shot across anyone's bow except EJ's. Sometimes we really search hard for the hidden message. This ones probably just "we have zero qbs under contract next year so we need to looks at any options" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 No thanks. He's a bust, guaranteed. Couldn't keep a college starting gig and there are some who think he has potential? Every report suggest his weaknesses are "fails to read defenses" and "locks onto targets" and "poor timing" and "questionable decision-making" and..... it goes on. Welcome to EJ Manual 2.0. A project QB isn't, and it has been proven over and over and over, a guy with a huge arm and physical talents and no brains. All of the above weaknesses are mental issues, not physical. Do you know how ling it would take to fix a guy like this? If you can't even be good enough to start in college with these supposed superior skills, how the hell is this a guy anyone would draft as a QB. Those who poo-poo the wonderlic fail to realize that for QB it's a good proxy for mental capacity, recall, and mental agility/reflexes. It measures what you know but the speed requires you to be sharp and focuses, key attributes of a QB. So I've said it here ad nauseam, a 22 on a wonderlic for a QB is the starting point, no Super Bowl-winning QB has ever had less than a 22 (reportedly) with the exception of Bradshaw who apparently had dyslexia(?). Favre I believe was the 22. So if you want a Super Bowl, I hate to break it to you, the wonderlic score should matter. Can you get into the playoffs with a sub-22, yes. Just can't win it all. Cam Newton and his 21 came close! But look at the SB winners on the list published here (http://www.nflstatanalysis.net/2011/03/qb-wonderlic-scores.html). No Montana or Aikman there unless I missed. One site has Aikman with a 29. Brady 33 Rodgers 35 E. Manning 39 Young 33 Brees 28 P Manning 28 Flacco 27 Roethlisberger 25 Dilfer 22 Favre 22 Jim Kelly (and Marino) 15. So you can have productive teams and runs but I would argue a 15 today is worse than a 15 then, game is more pass oriented and complicated. My point is, if you review the list, there are a ton of super athletes with sub-22s. At the same time, you can argue "Well, lots of brainy QBs sucked too and never won squat." Also true and I'm not suggest drafting one of them guarantees you anything. All I am saying is the only guarantee out there is that drafting a sub-22 QB will never win you a super bowl. Tyrod Taylor had a 15. So why are we even entertaining this clown right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 No thanks. He's a bust, guaranteed. Couldn't keep a college starting gig and there are some who think he has potential? Every report suggest his weaknesses are "fails to read defenses" and "locks onto targets" and "poor timing" and "questionable decision-making" and..... it goes on. Welcome to EJ Manual 2.0. A project QB isn't, and it has been proven over and over and over, a guy with a huge arm and physical talents and no brains. All of the above weaknesses are mental issues, not physical. Do you know how ling it would take to fix a guy like this? If you can't even be good enough to start in college with these supposed superior skills, how the hell is this a guy anyone would draft as a QB. Those who poo-poo the wonderlic fail to realize that for QB it's a good proxy for mental capacity, recall, and mental agility/reflexes. It measures what you know but the speed requires you to be sharp and focuses, key attributes of a QB. So I've said it here ad nauseam, a 22 on a wonderlic for a QB is the starting point, no Super Bowl-winning QB has ever had less than a 22 (reportedly) with the exception of Bradshaw who apparently had dyslexia(?). Favre I believe was the 22. So if you want a Super Bowl, I hate to break it to you, the wonderlic score should matter. Can you get into the playoffs with a sub-22, yes. Just can't win it all. Cam Newton and his 21 came close! But look at the SB winners on the list published here (http://www.nflstatanalysis.net/2011/03/qb-wonderlic-scores.html). No Montana or Aikman there unless I missed. One site has Aikman with a 29. Brady 33 Rodgers 35 E. Manning 39 Young 33 Brees 28 P Manning 28 Flacco 27 Roethlisberger 25 Dilfer 22 Favre 22 Jim Kelly (and Marino) 15. So you can have productive teams and runs but I would argue a 15 today is worse than a 15 then, game is more pass oriented and complicated. My point is, if you review the list, there are a ton of super athletes with sub-22s. At the same time, you can argue "Well, lots of brainy QBs sucked too and never won squat." Also true and I'm not suggest drafting one of them guarantees you anything. All I am saying is the only guarantee out there is that drafting a sub-22 QB will never win you a super bowl. you listed everyone's scores except Cardale's...what was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 you listed everyone's scores except Cardale's...what was it? Why? Is that relevant to the topic?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Why? Is that relevant to the topic?... ha, I guess it was to the poster but as far as I know it hasn't been revealed. I've only seen Goff and Wentz's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 ha, I guess it was to the poster but as far as I know it hasn't been revealed. I've only seen Goff and Wentz's. Correct Sir...I just checked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Correct Sir...I just checked... so he is assuming that it was low, because...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 so he is assuming that it was low, because...? It's a terrible argument to make anyways because in recent years QB's have found a way to practice for it an increase their scores. I'm not very familiar with the test but Cowherd did a segment on it. So how are we going to judge Jim Kelly's vs. Peyton's vs. Goffs? Mcnabb scored a 14...he did ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) It's a terrible argument to make anyways because in recent years QB's have found a way to practice for it an increase their scores. I'm not very familiar with the test but Cowherd did a segment on it. So how are we going to judge Jim Kelly's vs. Peyton's vs. Goffs? Mcnabb scored a 14...he did ok?i have no idea if he scored low, middle or high. For a QB, high is certainly preferred, but not a deal breaker IMO. Just wondering why he even brought it up and assuming it was low. Because he tweeted when he was a freshman that he didn't want to go to class? Academics were never an issue with Cardale once he got to OSU. Even if they were, it's not a direct correlation to the Wonderlic test. Joey bosa was certainly not a big fan of going to class and he scored a 37. Btw Reggie Ragland scored a 10 - gahhhh can he learn this defense? Yes. It's more about work ethic and commitment. Manziel scored a 32. Edited April 10, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 i have no idea if he scored low, middle or high. For a QB, high is certainly preferred, but not a deal breaker IMO. Just wondering why he even brought it up and assuming it was low. Because he tweeted when he was a freshman that he didn't want to go to class? Academics were never an issue with Cardale once he got to OSU. Even if they were, it's not a direct correlation to the Wonderlic test. Joey bosa was certainly not a big fan of going to class and he scored a 37. Btw Reggie Ragland scored a 10 - gahhhh can he learn this defense? Yes. Just seems like someone bent on bashing a player from a mile away. As you mentioned his score hasn't even been made public. I'm with you on the high score being a plus but a lower score not wiping a kid of a draft board. For the record I will take Cardale and whatever score he has over Bosa and his 37! We pick at 19, we aren't going to get a finished product at QB. After Goff and Wentz it's safe to assume 5 or 6 guys will be drafted and groomed. Out of all these posts has anyone made a legitimate case as to why Cardale has less chance to succeed than the other projects? Sure you can draft Connor Cook who is closer to his ceiling than his floor and honestly i don't even think he could surpass Tyrod. Tyrod looks to be at the very least a serviceable NFL starter, if we draft a QB let's chase one with a high ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) Just seems like someone bent on bashing a player from a mile away. As you mentioned his score hasn't even been made public. I'm with you on the high score being a plus but a lower score not wiping a kid of a draft board. For the record I will take Cardale and whatever score he has over Bosa and his 37! We pick at 19, we aren't going to get a finished product at QB. After Goff and Wentz it's safe to assume 5 or 6 guys will be drafted and groomed. Out of all these posts has anyone made a legitimate case as to why Cardale has less chance to succeed than the other projects? Sure you can draft Connor Cook who is closer to his ceiling than his floor and honestly i don't even think he could surpass Tyrod. Tyrod looks to be at the very least a serviceable NFL starter, if we draft a QB let's chase one with a high ceiling. i would agree, especially since Roman has had success with raw/high ceiling type QB's In the past. His offense is run-based and simple for the QB, allows him to grow, taking advantage of what he can do and not asking him to do things he can't (yet). That's why I think this offense/coaching staff is ideal for jones. He's not pressured to start right away, he's a 3rd QB who could push EJ in camp for the backup but doesn't have to play most likely this year. He can just learn in the QB room all year and he has potential to be a starting QB at some point if needed due to his traits. I actually voted for Hogan in the poll but it was close. I'm optimistic that Taylor is the guy long-term and that we are drafting that steady quintessential backup who is familiar with the offense, a great deal of experience, can absorb the play book and manage a game if TT gets hurt, but a low round pick used. I won't have a big issue with most of the guys in the draft depending on where they get drafted. Each one has something to offer. Edited April 10, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Just seems like someone bent on bashing a player from a mile away. As you mentioned his score hasn't even been made public. I'm with you on the high score being a plus but a lower score not wiping a kid of a draft board. For the record I will take Cardale and whatever score he has over Bosa and his 37! We pick at 19, we aren't going to get a finished product at QB. After Goff and Wentz it's safe to assume 5 or 6 guys will be drafted and groomed. Out of all these posts has anyone made a legitimate case as to why Cardale has less chance to succeed than the other projects? Sure you can draft Connor Cook who is closer to his ceiling than his floor and honestly i don't even think he could surpass Tyrod. Tyrod looks to be at the very least a serviceable NFL starter, if we draft a QB let's chase one with a high ceiling. I dont disagree with any of this....except for the fact that this is supposidly not a strong draft for QBs and even the top guys are gonna have their struggles (imo) in that first year...... Take a guy who is raw with all the tools and work with him....chances are EJ Manuel is your backup this year anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 I dont disagree with any of this....except for the fact that this is supposidly not a strong draft for QBs and even the top guys are gonna have their struggles (imo) in that first year...... Take a guy who is raw with all the tools and work with him....chances are EJ Manuel is your backup this year anyway Yep Manuel and his guaranteed contract provide a buffer year for whom ever is drafted. I don't care how good the drafted player looks let him sit the entire year and don't discourage his growth by putting him on the field. EJ can take the lumps if Tyrod goes down IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 What does he mean by this? What other boom or bust players has Whaley drafted or signed? McCoy? I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) I dont disagree with any of this....except for the fact that this is supposidly not a strong draft for QBs and even the top guys are gonna have their struggles (imo) in that first year...... Take a guy who is raw with all the tools and work with him....chances are EJ Manuel is your backup this year anyway right... The hope is that the guy drafted this year can become the #2 next year when EJ is gone. IMO it's not a strong QB draft if you need an immediate starter, but there are multiple options if your need is what it appears the Bills is, assuming TT is the starter beyond this season. Edited April 10, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 i would agree, especially since Roman has had success with raw/high ceiling type QB's In the past. His offense is run-based and simple for the QB, allows him to grow, taking advantage of what he can do and not asking him to do things he can't (yet). That's why I think this offense/coaching staff is ideal for jones. He's not pressured to start right away, he's a 3rd QB who could push EJ in camp for the backup but doesn't have to play most likely this year. He can just learn in the QB room all year and he has potential to be a starting QB at some point if needed due to his traits. I actually voted for Hogan in the poll but it was close. I'm optimistic that Taylor is the guy long-term and that we are drafting that steady quintessential backup who is familiar with the offense, a great deal of experience, can absorb the play book and manage a game if TT gets hurt, but a low round pick used. I won't have a big issue with most of the guys in the draft depending on where they get drafted. Each one has something to offer. Good post as a whole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 (edited) so he is assuming that it was low, because...? Not sure... It sells papers?... Edited April 11, 2016 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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