Liberal Protests

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Personally I feel they have, for the most part, exercised incredible restraint under the circumstances. 

But the expectation should be for all cops to be perfect at all times or else it proves a corrupt system in need of communization.

[Nelius]

Just now, Reality Check said:

So you are saying it isn't fascism now?

 

Ah man, ya got me.  I'm beyond frustrated at our current situation and sickened by that video of Buffalo, and am waffling between fascism and almost fascism. Micro-victory for you.

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Personally I feel they have, for the most part, exercised incredible restraint under the circumstances. 

I was there tonight. It was a bad brew on both sides.  Camo officers staged out of sight behind the city court building about three hours before that happened.  Protestors were an eclectic bunch.  Cops I talked to seemed pissed off to be there.  It was easy to tell something unfortunate would happen. 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Reality Check said:

So you are saying it isn't fascism now?

Correct. But it’s getting real close. We’ll be keeping an eye on the Nelius Fasc-O-Meter folks and keep you posted. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

This is how intellectually bankrupt the left is.

 

Who is defending the actions of those 2 cops?  It’s inexcusable and they should be charged with some sort of criminal charges.   The left wants to create these bogeymen out of the police.  People are people, whether they are lawyers, doctors, janitors or police officers, you have good and bad people.   I happen to find police officers in general to be very honorable and brave. They risk their lives so #######s on message boards can cry “fascism” when they truly don’t understand the word fascism as it’s the buzzword du jour.   

 

One cannot possibly and reasonably make such a charge without knowing the assailant.   
 

 

I asked in the Buffalo thread, but maybe here will get an answer..

 

What would you expect them to be charged with?

 

He approached them, they told him to get away, he still approached, they pushed, he stumbled backwards and fell.

 

Leaving him there bleeding is where they were wrong, in my opinion. And the one cop pushing the other cop away was terrible. But, maybe neither were trained to help and the national guard guys were trained to help?
 

I will be curious what the law enforcement guys here will think of the incident, and what they think charges, if any, should be.

[Reality Check]

Just now, Nelius said:

 

Ah man, ya got me.  I'm beyond frustrated at our current situation and sickened by that video of Buffalo, and am waffling between fascism and almost fascism. Micro-victory for you.

I am simply asking for clarification. It is police brutality in my book. The rest of your verbiage was a bit emotional and I wasn't quite getting it.

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

Correct. But it’s getting real close. We’ll be keeping an eye on the Nelius Fasc-O-Meter folks and keep you posted. 

 

It's all going to go back to normal guys. It was a perfect system with no need for change whatsoever. We'll be enjoying water parks and having office happy hours again in no time.

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

Ah man, ya got me.  I'm beyond frustrated at our current situation and sickened by that video of Buffalo, and am waffling between fascism and almost fascism. Micro-victory for you.

I’d go with Facist-lite. ?

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I was there tonight. It was a bad brew on both sides.  Camo officers staged out of sight behind the city court building about three hours before that happened.  Protestors were an eclectic bunch.  Cops I talked to seemed pissed off to be there.  It was easy to tell something unfortunate would happen. 

Does eclectic mean Starbuck's swizzling pajama boy commies?

Edited June 5, 2020 by 4merper4mer

[Nelius]

Just now, Reality Check said:

I am simply asking for clarification. It is police brutality in my book. The rest of your verbiage was a bit emotional and I wasn't quite getting it.

 

It was emotional, I'll admit it. No, it's not actual fascism. Let's move on.

[Reality Check]

Just now, Nelius said:

 

It was emotional, I'll admit it. No, it's not actual fascism. Let's move on.

Fair enough. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I was there tonight. It was a bad brew on both sides.  Camo officers staged out of sight behind the city court building about three hours before that happened.  Protestors were an eclectic bunch.  Cops I talked to seemed pissed off to be there.  It was easy to tell something unfortunate would happen. 

And these situations often turn bad. 
 

And to play devil’s advocate. These cops were amped up. The guy approached the cop and reached out to him. Sorry old man. Not very smart. 

[SectionC3]

4 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Does eclectic mean Starbuck's swizzling pajama boy commies?

No.  It also doesn’t mean  Trumpian fascists.  Somewhere in between. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by SectionC3

[Magox]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I asked in the Buffalo thread, but maybe here will get an answer..

 

What would you expect them to be charged with?

 

He approached them, they told him to get away, he still approached, they pushed, he stumbled backwards and fell.

 

Leaving him there bleeding is where they were wrong, in my opinion. And the one cop pushing the other cop away was terrible. But, maybe neither were trained to help and the national guard guys were trained to help?
 

I will be curious what the law enforcement guys here will think of the incident, and what they think charges, if any, should be.

 

Im not a lawyer, but something.  He shouldn’t have been pushed considering his age and that he wasn’t a threat.   They may not have intended to injure him but they did.   
 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

It was emotional, I'll admit it. No, it's not actual fascism. Let's move on.

But come on man. Ya gotta give me props for my Nelius Fasc-O-Meter. 

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

And these situations often turn bad. 
 

And to play devil’s advocate. These cops were amped up. The guy approached the cop and reached out to him. Sorry old man. Not very smart. 

It was unnecessary.  Totally out of character for that cop.  I couldn’t believe it when I saw the name plate.  He’s probably going to get fired, and that’s too bad.  But he did not have to hit the guy.  At all.  

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

And these situations often turn bad. 
 

And to play devil’s advocate. These cops were amped up. The guy approached the cop and reached out to him. Sorry old man. Not very smart. 

I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived.

 

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

Im not a lawyer, but something.  He shouldn’t have been pushed considering his age and that he wasn’t a threat.   They may not have intended to injure him but they did.   
 

Eggshell skull rule.  You’re right.  

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I asked in the Buffalo thread, but maybe here will get an answer..

 

What would you expect them to be charged with?

 

He approached them, they told him to get away, he still approached, they pushed, he stumbled backwards and fell.

 

Leaving him there bleeding is where they were wrong, in my opinion. And the one cop pushing the other cop away was terrible. But, maybe neither were trained to help and the national guard guys were trained to help?
 

I will be curious what the law enforcement guys here will think of the incident, and what they think charges, if any, should be.

And it wasn’t even what would consider a forceful shove. It was more of a “move along”. And I do agree to leave him lying there was real bad. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived.

 

It got there pretty quickly thereafter.  That part looked worse than it actually was.  Just no need to hit the guy whatsoever.  That was not protect and serve.  

[Nelius]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

But come on man. Ya gotta give me props for my Nelius Fasc-O-Meter. 

 

It's what broke me tbh. Took a breath and cracked a beer. Kudos.

 

I'm pissed though. Other people are pissed. I'm not out there because I have a kid but I'm watching everything and am not coming away with a good view of the police (typically live streams, so cool your jets conspiracy theory anti-media weirdos). Even your statement about how the old man should have known better. Isn't that part of the problem? Shouldn't a harmless old man be able to approach the police? We've gone from "never mess with the police because they may kill you" to "don't even approach police because they may kill you".

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived.

 

What are the odds that there is a protest in his name?

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

It was unnecessary.  Totally out of character for that cop.  I couldn’t believe it when I saw the name plate.  He’s probably going to get fired, and that’s too bad.  But he did not have to hit the guy.  At all.  

Hit the guy?  I watched that several times. He didn’t hit him. 

[SectionC3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

And it wasn’t even what would consider a forceful shove. It was more of a “move along”. And I do agree to leave him lying there was real bad. 

Aaron’s a pretty strong guy and he gave it to the citizen pretty well from what I saw. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, Magox said:

 

Im not a lawyer, but something.  He shouldn’t have been pushed considering his age and that he wasn’t a threat.   They may not have intended to injure him but they did.   
 

Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? 

 

It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer. 

 

[SectionC3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Hit the guy?  I watched that several times. He didn’t hit him. 

Agree to disagree.  We’re arguing semantics. It was an application of force. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

3 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I do sincerely hope the guy is ok and agree someone should have stayed until medical attention arrived.

 

In the video I posted, the national guard guys immediately attended to him. They were at the back of the pack.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Nelius said:

 

It's what broke me tbh. Took a breath and cracked a beer. Kudos.

 

That’s about all I’m good for here. ?

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? 

 

It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer. 

 

The last paragraph is victim blaming.  Sorry but it is.  The citizen probably shouldn’t have been there, but that doesn’t justify what happened.  (Audio may tell a different tale, but I highly doubt it since the citizen was left in place after falling.  A threat would have been neutralized there.) 

[4merper4mer]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

It got there pretty quickly thereafter.  That part looked worse than it actually was.  Just no need to hit the guy whatsoever.  That was not protect and serve.  

I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation.  He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable.  

 

My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop.  Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state.

[Reality Check]

Doe anyone know why they pushed Joe Biden to the ground like that? There had to be a reason.

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

In the video I posted, the national guard guys immediately attended to him. They were at the back of the pack.

I think they were states, but point is you’re right about prompt medical attention. 

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Aaron’s a pretty strong guy and he gave it to the citizen pretty well from what I saw. 

I watched it several times. It didn’t look that forceful to me. Again devil’s advocate. I don’t care how old you are. You do not approach a cop likely in a stressful situation and reach out to him. 

[Reality Check]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation.  He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable.  

 

My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop.  Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state.

It would have been fine if the next move was to inject him with a mandatory vaccine.

[SectionC3]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

I mostly agree but the guy did approach the cop and reach out his arm during an edgy situation.  He was old though and there were enough cops to handle if he got aggressive.....and didn't look all that capable.  

 

My my opinion is that it was an overreaction by the cop.  Also I believe it to be an overreaction by those calling him fascist, publishing his name on the Internet and citing this as some sort of proof of a police state.

He’s a public employee engaged in alleged public misconduct so the name is coming out.  As for his fascism, I haven’t dealt with the guy in probably 15 years, but he is absolutely not what I would call any kind of extremist.  When I knew him he was a very, very good person.  I have no reason to believe that to be untrue today. 

[Magox]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Do the body cameras have sound? While I would agree that he was probably not a threat, sound would allow us to know what he was saying when he approached them. And, why did he approach them? 

 

It is never a good idea to disobey a reasonable request (get back, get away) from a police officer. 

 

Im not sure but it was unnecessary roughing.  Maybe a 15 yard penalty.

[SectionC3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

I watched it several times. It didn’t look that forceful to me. Again devil’s advocate. I don’t care how old you are. You do not approach a cop likely in a stressful situation and reach out to him. 

Problem is that the use of force has to be justified.  I just don’t see it there.  If the guy was threatening officers he should have been dealt with immediately after he fell to resolve the threat. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, Magox said:

Im not sure but it was unnecessary roughing.  Maybe a 15 yard penalty.

Could have been worse. The cop could have been “givin him the business down there ” after he fell to the ground. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Chef Jim

[Nelius]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

Problem is that the use of force has to be justified.  I just don’t see it there.  If the guy was threatening officers he should have been dealt with immediately after he fell to resolve the threat. 

 

I'm more grossed out by the way they just all walk past him, regardless of level of force. I don't know, maybe there's protocol or something in terms of waiting for a medic that I'm overlooking, but it damn sure looks like they continue to treat him, and then ignore him, as an agitator after he starts bleeding out of his ears.

[SectionC3]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

Could have been worse. The cop could have been “givin him the business” after he fell to the ground. 

Marty Lyons retired a long time ago! 

Just now, Nelius said:

 

I'm more grossed out by the way they just all walk past him, regardless of level of force. I don't know, maybe there's protocol or something in terms of waiting for a medic that I'm overlooking, but it damn sure looks like they continue to treat him, and then ignore him, as an agitator after he starts bleeding out of his ears.

The medics got there pretty quickly.  I don’t blame them for not breaking the line to treat. But if he was an aggressor they should have neutralized him with cuffs or restraint.  Not a good look for the BPD.