Is this defense recoverable?

[Rubes]

Like most, I though we had a borderline elite defense last year, that would only get better this year. Now that we know that the opposite happened, and most are blaming the scheme (in addition to injuries), the question is: do people think this defense can become elite under Rex?

 

We're facing a tough offseason in terms of cap space and potential personnel losses, and the need to find several people to fit the scheme (and buy into it).

 

I feel like next year may be better, but will still see significant growing pains, and it likely won't be back to 2014-level performance.

 

Do others feel different? Is there hope for this defense?

[Lenigmusx]

First- yes I think the defense will be much better next year. 8-12 range in points and yards. Sadly, the frustration is that it probably would have been in the 13-15 range this year if we benched the malcontents early. The power play that happened in the locker room and on the field this year is unfathomable. When Vic published the article bickering bills 2.0 I didn't realize how correct he was. I have a friend who is a little in "the know" at one bills drive. He never says anything to me about insider stuff but told me this was a mutiny. Some speculated that certain players thought they may even be able to get Rex fired and Schwartz brought back as HC. I think Rex is absolutely thrilled that this defense is playing better the more back ups are playing. I think he will have a lot to prove and the defense will be very good next year.

[4merper4mer]

First- yes I think the defense will be much better next year. 8-12 range in points and yards. Sadly, the frustration is that it probably would have been in the 13-15 range this year if we benched the malcontents early. The power play that happened in the locker room and on the field this year is unfathomable. When Vic published the article bickering bills 2.0 I didn't realize how correct he was. I have a friend who is a little in "the know" at one bills drive. He never says anything to me about insider stuff but told me this was a mutiny. Some speculated that certain players thought they may even be able to get Rex fired and Schwartz brought back as HC. I think Rex is absolutely thrilled that this defense is playing better the more back ups are playing. I think he will have a lot to prove and the defense will be very good next year.

 

Any insight into who will be blamed for Rex's failures in 2016?

 

Whaley? Taylor? Dareus? K Williams?

 

My money is on Gilmore. I'm not sure why.

 

The defense is playing better? Against Kellen Moore?

 

Look, I have no reason to doubt what you're saying about what you've been told. I believe you. But were the players starting some sort of mutiny because they felt like it might be fun or because the defense is based on string theory, hasn't worked in half a decade and is easily combatted as demonstrated with opponents substitutions and us getting the play call in a second or two after the snap?

[yungmack]

Short answer: Not likely with current personnel. The line will apparently be without Mario, some think Kyle is done as well, and Dareus sounds at least as disgruntled as Mario if not more. Preston Brown has gone from a very bright spot to worst in the league, McKelvin & Gilmore can't seem to stay healthy, Graham is looking old and I wonder if Aaron Williams will be the player he was. In fact, I would not be terribly surprised if, a few months down the road, he decides to retire.

 

I think lots of current D players will be gone as Rex, with his vote of confidence from The Pegs, remakes the roster in accord with his dated system. In other words, the D is back in rebuilding mode so I don't see it improving next season. But if it is the same or worse that will likely be the end of Rex, so there's that bright spot.

[4merper4mer]

Short answer: Not likely with current personnel. The line will apparently be without Mario, some think Kyle is done as well, and Dareus sounds at least as disgruntled as Mario if not more. Preston Brown has gone from a very bright spot to worst in the league, McKelvin & Gilmore can't seem to stay healthy, Graham is looking old and I wonder if Aaron Williams will be the player he was. In fact, I would not be terribly surprised if, a few months down the road, he decides to retire.

 

I think lots of current D players will be gone as Rex, with his vote of confidence from The Pegs, remakes the roster in accord with his dated system. In other words, the D is back in rebuilding mode so I don't see it improving next season. But if it is the same or worse that will likely be the end of Rex, so there's that bright spot.

 

Unfortunately I see it largely the same way. Rex is certainly not to blame for the Aaron Williams situation but he will suffer the consequences. It is too bad but I'd rather see the kid retire than have something really bad happen.

 

Installing his dated system with some new players is what I see happening. And failing. And taking two years to do so. Then a re-build in 2018 for the new coach and 2019 could be the year we're on the rise. Rex can talk about his regrets during the CBS pre-game show every week. But the people who care about the team the most, us, will still be suffering. Thanks Rex. The Bills could end up with a franchise QB with the #1 pick in the 2018 draft and Rex can cry how he wished he could have coached the kid.

 

God I hope I'm wrong but the only thing that could have been worse on the 2015 was if Darby turned out to be a bust. Clearly he wasn't so that is the lone bright spot. Everything else went from toward the top of the league to complete crap in one year.

 

Cuz. Rex. Sux.

Edited January 1, 2016 by 4merper4mer

[3rdand12]

Rex can only shuffle so many players.

 

Another year with more study from players who are focused will go a long way to improve over this years struggle.

Being a Defense that often depends upon a single player making the right decision quickly, the whole team can look bad.

Everyone has to be on point. That just did not happen.

to answer the question.

Of course they can.

 

Those guys from LBs to Safeties looked lost. That's fixable. From Coaches right down to players. Its fixable

[yungmack]

Rex can only shuffle so many players.

 

Another year with more study from players who are focused will go a long way to improve over this years struggle.

Being a Defense that often depends upon a single player making the right decision quickly, the whole team can look bad.

Everyone has to be on point. That just did not happen.

to answer the question.

Of course they can.

 

Those guys from LBs to Safeties looked lost. That's fixable. From Coaches right down to players. Its fixable

This is the heart of the fury people have towards Rex. I mean, why would you take a defense that was generally working very well with the ability f the players you had and which the players were well-schooled in, a replace it with what is an apparently super complicated one that can fall apart completely if a single player fails in the slightest? And then to continue to stubbornly insist on that system when it is clearly not working is insane.

[3rdand12]

This is the heart of the fury people have towards Rex. I mean, why would you take a defense that was generally working very well with the ability f the players you had and which the players were well-schooled in, a replace it with what is an apparently super complicated one that can fall apart completely if a single player fails in the slightest? And then to continue to stubbornly insist on that system when it is clearly not working is insane.

I get that. I really do.

 

But when the whole coaching staff comes over with a program , it might just be more difficult to shift.

 

He guessed wrong. He assumed that the players would take to the program quickly.

 

Rex made a big mistake. But there are many things wrong here besides scheme.

[KDIGGZ]

Defense sucks because we have terrible LB's and a D-Line full of highly paid players that are dropping into coverage

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Defense sucks because we have terrible LB's and a D-Line full of highly paid players that are dropping into coverage

 

Replace the word "terrible" with "middling" or "average" and you got it.

[Perry Turtle]

In the world of hurry up offenses and two step drops, Rex's defense will not work. Two many line calls and adjustments. Under Rex, the defense will always be on its heels. In addition, Rex seems to have lost the stomach for the overload blitzes that make a 3-4 zone blitz scheme effective, choosing to play a complicated bend-but-don't break scheme instead.

 

3-4 linebackers are difficult to find, not to mention having to replace a couple of all-pro defensive linemen. Guys like Hughes and Dareus are one-gap pass rushers, so look for them to fill the role of malcontents next year, as their two-gap responsibilities hold down the stats that got them their big contract extensions.

 

Due to the unneeded complexity of Rex's defense, look for the Bills to sign a fading veteran or two who actually understand what Rex is trying to do, who will start over more talented players and cost the team a couple of big plays a game.

 

On the offense, where the right side of the line needs a complete with rebuild, expect the Bills to make do with another set of rejects, as free agent money and high draft picks are wasted on Rex's over-complicated and outdated scheme.

[3rdand12]

In the world of hurry up offenses and two step drops, Rex's defense will not work. Two many line calls and adjustments. Under Rex, the defense will always be on its heels. In addition, Rex seems to have lost the stomach for the overload blitzes that make a 3-4 zone blitz scheme effective, choosing to play a complicated bend-but-don't break scheme instead.

 

3-4 linebackers are difficult to find, not to mention having to replace a couple of all-pro defensive linemen. Guys like Hughes and Dareus are one-gap pass rushers, so look for them to fill the role of malcontents next year, as their two-gap responsibilities hold down the stats that got them their big contract extensions.

 

Due to the unneeded complexity of Rex's defense, look for the Bills to sign a fading veteran or two who actually understand what Rex is trying to do, who will start over more talented players and cost the team a couple of big plays a game.

 

On the offense, where the right side of the line needs a complete with rebuild, expect the Bills to make do with another set of rejects, as free agent money and high draft picks are wasted on Rex's over-complicated and outdated scheme.

no middle ground then ?

[jahnyc]

I do not think the retooling from the current group of defensive players to a new group that fits Ryan's scheme will be quick or easy, particularly since we do not have cap flexibility. I would be surprised if it can be done effectively in just one off-season.

[GG]

Read the FA thread. Replace Mario add a NT and you will see different results.

[Jobu]

Absolutely. Putting someone in Mario's place that actually plays will have an effect. Then you add in a whole offeseason of moves and the draft. We will soon find out if Whaley and Ryan are truly in lock step.

 

If they are'nt then we are screwed for a while.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

This is the heart of the fury people have towards Rex. I mean, why would you take a defense that was generally working very well with the ability f the players you had and which the players were well-schooled in, a replace it with what is an apparently super complicated one that can fall apart completely if a single player fails in the slightest? And then to continue to stubbornly insist on that system when it is clearly not working is insane.

 

That's my problem with clown Ryan. It's also the reason Schwartz bolted so quickly. He knew Rex had a completely different philosophy that would not work with this personnel. Rex being the stubborn blowhard he is, decided to use arrogance instead of wisdom and fight to make his system work.

 

By giving up control, being a head coach and letting Schwartz continue to run his Defense, we would be very happy right now. We'd be resting starters in a meaningless game against the Jets with the AFC East crown on the mantel. Now we got another Christmas stocking full of **** and another rebuild on D.

 

Sadly, I don't see a quick fix with too many holes to fill on D. I just don't see this exotic Rex package working anymore. I hope I am wrong. I really do, but my gut says the struggles on D will not be cured and the strength of this team will now be its weakness.

 

 

 

[CSBill]

Rex can only shuffle so many players.

 

Another year with more study from players who are focused will go a long way to improve over this years struggle.

Being a Defense that often depends upon a single player making the right decision quickly, the whole team can look bad.

Everyone has to be on point. That just did not happen.

to answer the question.

Of course they can.

 

Those guys from LBs to Safeties looked lost. That's fixable. From Coaches right down to players. Its fixable

 

Does playing defense have to be that hard? Clearly a case of over-coaching. Just let players play rex.

 

To answer the thread question: The Defense will not be better because the same crapy scheme will be forced upon them.

[boyst]

this defense will not work. this defense we are seeing is what happens when you run a hybrid defense that mutates in to this mess.

.

the defense needs to be retooled to run what rex is capable running - since he is staying. without reading all of the responses or getting in to depth, my analysis as knowing a little bit about defense:

 

Need:

Nose Tackle/34DT. Talking the 300 lbs. Pat Williams/Ted Washington/Vince Wilfork.

• Al Woods - Titans. Should not cost too much. He's stout, not a big name. He is big and can play all 3 spots on the line in a 34D
• BJ Raji - Packers. Might cost a little more, might not want to leave Green Bay. They would like to keep him, from what I see.

Mike 34 - Brandon Spikes might be considered since we will run a hybrid 34 occasionally. Otherwise, we need a Mike that's half Mike half Jack. A Tranny Mike?

• I am going all draft here, if possible. 1st round should leave us the ability to get one. If it doesn't pan out well a June 1st cut is well worth it.
• Rolando McClain - Cowboys - expensive patch but an upgrade to Spikes
• Demario Davis - Jets - One of Rex's boys.

Will/SS - I really wanted Sean Lee of the Cowboys last year, he'd have done very well with Rex.

• Mark Barron - Rams - THIS IS THE GUY I WANT. A SAFETY/LINEBACKER FOR JACK. If anyone is going to get something from this guy it is going to be Rex. Mark Barron is my number 1 target this offseason from outside FA's. I have been looking at this all day, unamused by the college play.

[Perry Turtle]

no middle ground then ?

Rex showed no middle ground this season as his defense piled up mediocre performances. How will there be middle ground next season when the Bills start cutting all pro players?

 

This will turn out being a full-on rebuild. Problem is that Rex is rebuilding the unit into a scheme with little chance for success.

[stinky finger]

This is the heart of the fury people have towards Rex. I mean, why would you take a defense that was generally working very well with the ability f the players you had and which the players were well-schooled in, a replace it with what is an apparently super complicated one that can fall apart completely if a single player fails in the slightest? And then to continue to stubbornly insist on that system when it is clearly not working is insane.

cuz it's all about rex