Tyrod Taylor had a quietly spectacular day

[FireChan]

Guess McDonald's makes a SPECTACULAR sandwich

 

Agree to disagree. Cutler's been okay this year.

 

With our weapons I think he'd be cash.

Deep posts to SWAT all day. A man can dream.

[Felonious Monk]

Telling me to use google to find the stats that you conveniently eliminated to yield your own narrative is hilarious. Especially after I already found them and had to post them.

 

Tyrod had a spectacular day in the same way that you're spectacular at watching football games with an unbiased opinion.

 

Actually, you posted nothing of the sort. I posted three of TT's key third-down plays that helped the Bills win ONE game, namely against Dallas. The majority of my post was irrefutably Dallas-related, and how the Bills' game plan was a good fit for that particular opponent. For whatever reason you cited the TEAM's third-down conversion percentage for the game, and then the season. If you think blanket stats that include many third-down runs on a RB-first team are relevant to Tyrod's three good third-down plays from one game, then I have to question just how much you know about football. And when you have to twist other peoples' words to make your "point," you don't have one. You're not able to show me where I called Tyrod "spectacular," because I didn't. Insisting I did won't make it so.

 

Look, attribute inaccurate/false quotes to me all you want. But understand that you look pretty desperate doing so, regardless of how many other TT haters you get to back you up.

[fridge]

 

Actually, you posted nothing of the sort. I posted three of TT's key third-down plays that helped the Bills win ONE game, namely against Dallas. The majority of my post was irrefutably Dallas-related, and how the Bills' game plan was a good fit for that particular opponent. For whatever reason you cited the TEAM's third-down conversion percentage for the game, and then the season. If you think blanket stats that include many third-down runs on a RB-first team are relevant to Tyrod's three good third-down plays from one game, then I have to question just how much you know about football. And when you have to twist other peoples' words to make your "point," you don't have one. You're not able to show me where I called Tyrod "spectacular," because I didn't. Insisting I did won't make it so.

 

Look, attribute inaccurate/false quotes to me all you want. But understand that you look pretty desperate doing so, regardless of how many other TT haters you get to back you up.

 

So you looked at three times Tyrod threw for a first down and said, look he won the game (which I agreed with). I looked at the whole year's 3rd down percentage (you didn't like that) and now I'm the one cherry picking stats that knows nothing about football.

Edited December 28, 2015 by fridge

[Billsfan1972]

300 yards passing and coming from behind, which he's never done. Only time TT has looked good is in games the Bills dominated. Yes I m happy for the most part with his play, but overall it was a disappointing year.

 

Rams are the only other team not to throw for 300 yards in 2015.

 

The offense was better then expected, but the Bills completely underutilized their best player SW and they have a coaching staff still thinking that 70's football wins in 2015.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Billsfan1972

[Felonious Monk]

 

So you looked at three times Tyrod threw for a first down and said, look he won the game (which I agreed with). I looked at the whole year's 3rd down percentage (you didn't like that) and now I'm the one cherry picking stats that knows nothing about football.

 

You didn't even get THIS right! Show me where I wrote that Tyrod "won the game." Now you're saying you agreed with something I never said? Man, I'll give this one more try against my better judgment.

 

Two of Tyrod's third-down conversions were key plays in extending drives on which the Bills scored. Here's my quote from that post. Again, show me where I said that Tyrod single-handedly won us the game, as you continue to insinuate I did: "While not flashy with passing numbers, TT did more than enough to keep drives alive and help us win. Go ahead and rip on him for the INT. Fact is, TT was money yesterday in more ways than most care to acknowledge or comprehend. He's not a franchise guy yet, but he's the closest thing we have and he'll get another chance to improve and prove it next year."

 

As to your second point, I don't care that you looked at the whole year's 3rd-down conversion percentages because that's not at all a true measure of TT's personal performance for yesterday's game which was the subject of my post. You know this thread is about one game, right? Hint -- The word "day" in the title. If you wanted to go there, fine. But don't use an apples-to-oranges stat as a "rebuttal" in an apples-to-apples conversation. Maybe you did it intentionally because looking at all passing third-down conversion plays from yesterday sure as heck doesn't help you out. Better yet, apply your logic to the Pats-Cowboys game. Brady must not be a franchise quarterback because New England (the whole team) only converted 3/10 third down conversions -- right? Nothing else should be factored in because fridge said so; Brady SUCKS! (Yup, that's what it's like when someone claims you said something you didn't).

 

I welcome all comers in debates, but stay on point, understand context and use correct attribution. Whatever the reason, you took my post as a direct attack on you. I take no responsibility -- and make no apologies -- for others' insecurities.

[C.Biscuit97]

Understood but its sort of mind boggling and off putting that the best thing this team's came up with in 16 years is Tyrod Taylor...

And as much as he scrambles, while he is good at it, he will never make it through a full NFL season with the defenses in this league nowadays.

Personally, I think Fitz is a better qb than Taylor. Obviously with more time, this can change. Edited December 28, 2015 by C.Biscuit97

[mead107]

Pay the man Do not let him go.

[C.Biscuit97]

300 yards passing and coming from behind, which he's never done. Only time TT has looked good is in games the Bills dominated. Yes I m happy for the most part with his play, but overall it was a disappointing year.

 

Rams are the only other team not to throw for 300 yards in 2015.

 

The offense was better then expected, but the Bills completely underutilized their best player SW and they have a coaching staff still thinking that 70's football wins in 2015.

Just nitpicking but the whole 300 yards thing is a bit silly. EJ had 298 and I believe Taylor had a 290 game. That said, we aren't a good passing team.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Me thinks that Bills fans GROSSLY overestimate the play of the offensive line because of the run game when they mostly sucked at pass blocking, and GROSSLY underestimate Taylor's escapability, scrambling, throwing on the run, and actual running as an element of his overall QB play, even if they acknowledge he's a sensational runner.

 

Given the protection he got, he was extraordinary and one of the very best in the league at getting production from those snaps. As far as actual production he was in the middle of the league, which was very good.

This.

Personally, I think Fitz is a better qb than Taylor. Obviously with more time, this can change.

Fitz sees the field better and understands his options better. I don't think he's a more talented player, and his limitations and crunch-time mistakes always reveal themselves. I love the guy to death, and I think he should have been the Bills' quarterback the last two seasons, but he is not carrying any team to the Super Bowl. I think Tyrod absolutely could once he gets more experience.

[Felonious Monk]

Just nitpicking but the whole 300 yards thing is a bit silly. EJ had 298 and I believe Taylor had a 290 game. That said, we aren't a good passing team.

 

You're not nitpicking at all. Russell Wilson didn't hit 300 yards in the regular season his first year as a starter, and he was criticized for that. He finally did it in the second round of the playoffs that year, which the Seahawks lost to Atlanta. Wilson did it only once this year, twice last year, and twice in 2013. That's six games with 300+ yards in four years (including playoffs) out of 71. Brees did it nine times this season -- including one for 400+ and one for 500+ -- and the Saints have a worse record than we do. I agree that it's a silly stat.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Felonious Monk

[Hapless Bills Fan]

300 yards passing and coming from behind, which he's never done. Only time TT has looked good is in games the Bills dominated. Yes I m happy for the most part with his play, but overall it was a disappointing year.

 

Rams are the only other team not to throw for 300 yards in 2015.

 

The offense was better then expected, but the Bills completely underutilized their best player SW and they have a coaching staff still thinking that 70's football wins in 2015.

 

Um, well, maybe they think that what you term "70s football" wins in 2015 because in 2011, it won 13 games and went to the conference championship; in 2012 it won 11 games and went to the superbowl; in 2013, it won 12 games and went to the conference championship? Of course it had a pretty tough defense (#2 or #3) to go with it at that point, but given the Bills rank last year on D, perhaps it wasn't toooo much of a stretch to think they might achieve a comparable result with a comparably stout D?

 

Moreover, in 2012, 2013, and 2014 Roman could look to the north, where this team formerly called the SeaSnakes (now Seahawks in honor of #22) was running over people about as well, and going to playoffs, winning the superbowl, and losing the superbowl. They have a short QB who is noted for his scrambling ability.

 

Perhaps that is another reason why our coaches think they can win with "70s football"?

 

I do agree that Sammy Watkins was under-utilized, in part because Tyrod didn't seem to see him.

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

You're not nitpicking at all. Russell Wilson didn't hit 300 yards in the regular season his first year as a starter, and he was criticized for that. He finally did it in the second round of the playoffs that year, which the Seahawks lost to Atlanta. Wilson did it only once this year, twice last year, and twice in 2013. That's six games with 300+ yards in four years (including playoffs) out of 71. Brees did it nine times this season -- including one for 400+ and one for 500+ -- and the Saints have a worse record than we do. I agree that it's a silly stat in determining W's and L's.

Yup. 300 yard games these days are as much a function of a team using a lot of screens and slants (NE) in lieu of run plays, or deficient running games, as they are of great passers. Kelly Holcomb had some big yardage days but I would take Tyrod over him 100 times out of 100.

[Dorkington]

Yup. 300 yard games these days are as much a function of a team using a lot of screens and slants (NE) in lieu of run plays, or deficient running games, as they are of great passers. Kelly Holcomb had some big yardage days but I would take Tyrod over him 100 times out of 100.

Ding ding ding.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just nitpicking but the whole 300 yards thing is a bit silly. EJ had 298 and I believe Taylor had a 290 game. That said, we aren't a good passing team.

 

You are absolutely correct. Being a bit of a stats geek, I once put myself together a giant table and had me some fun looking at what QB stats actually seemed important to the outcome of a game (stats geeks think messing around with tables of numbers is fun, that's what makes us stats geeks). Not only is passing yardage not correlated with winning, it has a week *negative* correlation with winning.

 

Possible reasons why:

1) teams who can't run successfully, maybe because it's being shut down hard, tend to pass more 'cuz they got to. They are usually passing under pressure, and have more opportunity to make mistakes such as throwing picks or fumbles.

2) teams who are trailing by several scores, tend to pass more. Because they are pushing to make things happen, again, they may also be prone to make more mistakes

3) some Ds give up a lot of yards, but are stingy on points. This can generate a lot of pass yardage without putting anything much on the scoreboard

[fridge]

Yup. 300 yard games these days are as much a function of a team using a lot of screens and slants (NE) in lieu of run plays, or deficient running games, as they are of great passers. Kelly Holcomb had some big yardage days but I would take Tyrod over him 100 times out of 100.

 

No one compared Taylor to Holcomb except for you. Of course you would take Taylor over Holcomb 100/100 times.

 

300 yard games are not a complete barometer for QB success, I agree with that. I do think that yardage is a qualifier for "spectacular," which I believe is the essence of this thread.

Edited December 28, 2015 by fridge

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

You're not nitpicking at all. Russell Wilson didn't hit 300 yards in the regular season his first year as a starter, and he was criticized for that. He finally did it in the second round of the playoffs that year, which the Seahawks lost to Atlanta. Wilson did it only once this year, twice last year, and twice in 2013. That's six games with 300+ yards in four years (including playoffs) out of 71. Brees did it nine times this season -- including one for 400+ and one for 500+ -- and the Saints have a worse record than we do. I agree that it's a silly stat.

 

And I might add...after going to the Superbowl twice in 3 seasons, the playoffs his first season, and playoffs again this season, you can still google "Russ Wilson Not Elite" and find a bunch of pundits (and Mike Pettine) opining about how Wilson is Not All That.

 

300 yard games are not a complete barometer for QB success, I agree with that. I do think that yardage is a qualifier for "spectacular," which I believe is the essence of this thread.

 

Well, if your point is just Taylor played a good game despite his INT and 0 TD, made 3rd down conversions when he needed to, and had a lot to do with getting the win, but he wasn't quite "spectacular" in most uses of the word....I would tend to agree.

[fridge]

 

Well, if your point is just Taylor played a good game despite his INT and 0 TD, made 3rd down conversions when he needed to, and had a lot to do with getting the win, but he wasn't quite "spectacular" in most uses of the word....I would tend to agree.

 

Yeah, Taylor was good. He's been fine in a number of games this year. He's an average QB and that's about what we should expect from him, to beat 4-11 teams at home in a glorified preseason game.

[John from Riverside]

 

Yeah, Taylor was good. He's been fine in a number of games this year. He's an average QB and that's about what we should expect from him, to beat 4-11 teams at home in a glorified preseason game.

Once again....htf can you even make a statement like that.

 

You have nothing to base it on....absolutley nothing.

[T master]

Well he is for sure better than any we have had in a long time & i personally hope that once & for all this will give the FO at One Bills Dr. the foot balls to get rid of EJ .

 

Tyrod is a gamer and has a lot more that he could & will learn but i don't know that he is the future ?

 

He is a Bills type of player ! The underdog guy thats looking to prove he is that guy . That being said for goodness sake

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !! don't give him a huge contract like the Bills did to Fitz until he proves himself further, & if you do want to give him a bigger contract make it a incentive based contract !

 

[machine gun kelly]

He can't throw over the middle if his receivers aren't there. That's Roman's playcalling, as is running on 2/3 of the plays.

 

PTR- i agree this is due to a lack of trust from Roman on TT as to designing plays over the middle. i would like to see TT see the whole field. He does miss some guys at times, but so does most NFL QB's.