Dr. K Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I assume the Whaley impulse control comments apply primarily to EJ and Sammy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not sure why people don't come right out and say it. I don't get the Sammy stuff at all. If someone in the know can point out how we could have given up less to get him then fine, let me know about that. Otherwise I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about the player who is quite obviously far and away the most talented player on this team with the possible exception of the older and more expensive McCoy and Mario. If we had moved up and taken Mack instead, then Mack would be the most talented player on the team. We weren't getting either of them without that move. As for EJ....if you told me that we could have moved down again....meaning there was a willing trade partner at say pick #25-35, then fine. Otherwise, enough. We moved down once and added the pipsqueak LB. That is a guy that Whaley overvalued so I'll give everyone that. But usually people aren't talking about Kiko when criticizing Whaley. Insert Donahoe into the equation and we have Tavon Austin instead of Sammy, no EJ or Alonso and God knows what. Austin is a decent player and has his uses but he is not in the same league with Watkins. In FA moves I think there are some valid praises and criticisms of Whaley. More OL help would have been nice but it was rumored he did everything he could to get Bulaga. Hughes sure was a nice pickup and some other guys have contributed at times. Exactly. People who rail about drafting EJ never name the great QB from that draft that the Bills should have drafted instead. They never mention that Whaley traded down and picked up an extra second rounder who turned into Kiko (who later became McCoy). I've even seen people complain here about how Whaley TRADED UP to get EJ. Not to say he's been perfect and he may be gone but I don't expect this mythical "Czar" to come in and turn everything into sugarplums and twenty year old bourbon with his magic wand. Looking at the problems with the team this season and deciding to keep the coach and fired the GM would be just about a classic Bills move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I'm not buying any of this. I'm with you. Doesn't make even a little sense. Hard to blame Whaley for this mess of a season, if he is not part of the Bills next season it will be because he quit IMO. And are they going to fire Ryan after 1 season, no matter how disappointing, and with his current guaranteed contract? No sense at all. But, we are talking about a rookie owner and the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I reported this 2 weeks ago. I guess it's only a story if you have a twitter following Or if you're not just a random message board fan spouting an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 It really sucks we only got 2 years of 'the cold front' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I am going to point a finger at Pegula also. It appears he hired RR and has Ryan reporting directly to him. IMHO, an owner needs to get his paws off such hiring decisions. If TP gets a czar, he should also be prepared to give up meddling and control on the decisions for coaching and players. I am not going out too much on a limb if I sat that Pegula knows money but didn't know jack squat about building a winning NFL franchise Pegulas know money because they have it. A little info, Pegula had a business partner that handled all the business/money things in an official manner. Terry was the scientist/geologist, Mullan is the man who organized the business and money. While a man does not accumulate that much wealth by accident, he by no means was brokering his own deals in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 A disappointment? Absolutely! A disaster is taking it too far IMO. Perhaps my definition of a disaster is different from yours, but going from #2 in 2013, #1 in 2015 to now #30 in sacks is a disaster in my book. Even big stink, no blitz Dave Wannstedt had 37 sacks. The Bills are currently at 20 sacks with two games to go. That was a top 5 defense last year and the supposed defensive guru took it to 21st now. I could see the offense struggling with basically a rookie QB behind center, but the offense was actually the highlight of the season with Shady and Taylor. The defense and lack of team discipline are the reasons this year's team is 6-8 record and out of the playoffs. Bills fan anticipated greatness, and instead we got a sloppy version of Dick Jauron who had no Mario, no Dareus, no Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I can't think of any reason for such an odd structuring to a contract. Oh wait, yes I can. Oh we had a reason? Oh, that makes it okay to give Gronk money for Scott Chandler production. Nice job Doug! Hell of a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You know, I see a lot of speculation and imagination on what Brandon does taken as rock hard fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Aren't there rumors that Whaley wanted Hue Jackson? That would make sense as NFL GM's know way more about how 4-3 style defensive players don't all fit nicely in a 3-4 pressure D? I think Whaley who was on thin ice would be crazy to recommend a coach that would change the very thing that the Bills had the most money in. If there were rumors of Whaley wanting Hue Jackson I didn't hear / read of them. What I do recall is Russ Brandon telling the new owners that "they" would know who to hire after they spoke with him. My thoughts derived the way they did because of the Mike Pettine hire fresh from Rex Ryan's team to run the Bills 2013 defense. Pettine was on Rex's defensive staff as the DC from 2009-2012, and then why not bring in the master to make the defense even better. If I'm not mistaken both Whaley, and Brandon met with Pettine before the team hired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Cowher is not leaving a cushy job to come back to coaching.....either is Gruden.......... Good because I don't want either of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLizzyMeock Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) There are much bigger issues regarding Rex as a deficient coach that have little to do with his inability to bring in aging veteran players to teach his "system". Rex's record as a coach in NY was a losing record. By the time he got fired the team he was instrumental in assembling and coaching was in chaos. When you describe the character of a Rex coached team one word that won't be associated with it is discipline. Another word not associated with a Rex coached team is intelligence. Another word not associated with his teams is maturity. People are now bringing up hypothetical issues such as "what if this" and "what if that" in order to explain the stunning descent of a team. What has happened with the Bills should not have been a surprise. The same destructive cycle happened in NY. Our organization enthusiastically hired a failed HC that another organization was relieved to get rid of. Rex didn't have a successful tenure in NY. He had a cumulative losing record. Yet the Bills' organization found him to be an appealing candidate based on an impressive interview. Just think about it. A bullshiiiit interview proved to be more persuasive than a six year losing record ending in chaos The Jets are now a stabilized organization under a stolid but professional coach. This year they weren't subjected to the circus act that always surrounds this attention grabbing hound dog coach. When one of their marginal players punched their qb in the locker room and broke his jaw the Jets immediately responded by cutting him. Our clown coach immediately added him to the roster. That's the type of thuggish and dump player that appeals to this fool coach. The bottom line is that the Rex Ryan that we now got is the Rex Ryan we brought in. Well said. Edited December 21, 2015 by BLizzyMeock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 It would be surprising to me if Rex survives and Whaley is ousted. To my biased eye, probably 95% of the problems with this year's team speak right to coaching. When all of the players talk about the talent that has been assembled it's hard not to listen. I am fine with Pegula hiring a "czar" as long as he isn't a dinosaur like Polian. I'm still glad Marrone is gone. The Rex honeymoon (for me) finally ended with the loss in Philly. Marrone left on his own volition so it is futile to discuss his departure. But what I will say about him and believe it is a fair analysis about his tenure is that he did more with less talent than Rex who did less with more talent. DM made a very early unfavorable assessment on EJ that proved to be right. He also made an early unfavorable assessment on Kujo that also proved to be right. On those two players both coaches agreed with each other. I bring up these two players because DM was skewered for not giving these players enough opportunity. In the end what he saw in each player materialized. It's difficult to make a fair judgment on a two year coaching stint. However, Doug Marrone took over a team that was in a rebuild mode. In his first year the team won 4 games. The next year the team won 9 games (some say 8) even though their offense was far from being adequately staffed, especially on the OL and at qb. Doug Marrone was a tough coach. He strictly held the players accountable. A lot of players didn't like him for his tough stance. But they always played hard for him. Compare that to what is going on now. Especially on defense this is a fractured team, a team that is in a free fall. My point is simple. Although Doug Marrone was unlikable he was a better coach than the more likable current coach. The bottom line is it is about the bottom line. Without any hesitation I would take the former dour coach over the present loquacious coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Oh we had a reason? Oh, that makes it okay to give Gronk money for Scott Chandler production. Nice job Doug! Hell of a play. He was the leading receiver on our team up until his injury. And as a usage rate, let's take a look: Clay 13 games, 80 targets: 6.15 targets per game... 32.6% of passes the Bills attempt go towards Clay. Chandler 16 games, 70 targets, 4.375 targets per game... 12.1% of passes the Bills attempted went towards Chandler. Gronk 13 games, 107 targets, 8.23 targets per game... 31.2% of passes the Pats attempt go towards Gronk. Conclusion: Clay is significantly more important to our offense than Scott Chandler was. Edited December 21, 2015 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Whaley has problems with Impulse control. When he likes someone he dramatically OVER VALUES them and will dramatically overspend for them. Where do you get this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 There are much bigger issues regarding Rex as a deficient coach that have little to do with his inability to bring in aging veteran players to teach his "system". Rex's record as a coach in NY was a losing record. By the time he got fired the team he was instrumental in assembling and coaching was in chaos. When you describe the character of a Rex coached team one word that won't be associated with it is discipline. Another word not associated with a Rex coached team is intelligence. Another word not associated with his teams is maturity. People are now bringing up hypothetical issues such as "what if this" and "what if that" in order to explain the stunning descent of a team. What has happened with the Bills should not have been a surprise. The same destructive cycle happened in NY. Our organization enthusiastically hired a failed HC that another organization was relieved to get rid of. Rex didn't have a successful tenure in NY. He had a cumulative losing record. Yet the Bills' organization found him to be an appealing candidate based on an impressive interview. Just think about it. A bullshiiiit interview proved to be more persuasive than a six year losing record ending in chaos The Jets are now a stabilized organization under a stolid but professional coach. This year they weren't subjected to the circus act that always surrounds this attention grabbing hound dog coach. When one of their marginal players punched their qb in the locker room and broke his jaw the Jets immediately responded by cutting him. Our clown coach immediately added him to the roster. That's the type of thuggish and dump player that appeals to this fool coach. The bottom line is that the Rex Ryan that we now got is the Rex Ryan we brought in. I bought into the Rex hire at the time. It seemed like a perfect move: hire a defensive "genius", on who gave Belichick fits, to perfect our already solid defense. But right off my Pats fan friends warned me Rex was a bag of hot gas. I didn't care. Turned out they were on the money. You can't spin this as Rex not having the right players. You don't get hired to run a top defense and say everyone has to be replaced. He was supposed to perfect what we had. Where do you get this? Collective hallucinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 You can't spin this as Rex not having the right players. You don't get hired to run a top defense and say everyone has to be replaced. He was supposed to perfect what we had. Where do you get the notion that everybody needs to be replaced? I see a malcontent overpriced mutinous DE and a new MLB. The rest of the pieces are in good position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I did not know this. Brandon reminds me of a barker at a cheap carnival, except he is about big time money. It's all he knows and really all that Ralph probably ever wanted from him. My guess is that the Pegulas relied more on Whaley's input than Brandon's for the Rex hire, hence the hot seat for Whaley now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Where do you get the notion that everybody needs to be replaced? I see a malcontent overpriced mutinous DE and a new MLB. The rest of the pieces are in good position. The results do not indicate that we only need a new DE and MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninATL Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 if bringing a Czar on board who then decides to axe Rex is the play, it then protects Pegula from being known as an owner who fires a coach after 1 year, although if there is a Coach who deserves to get canned after 1 year it is Rex. I hear people say our record is about where the pundits predicted it would be, and that we had a shot at 5 games down to the last drive. I look at the context of how we play and what our character is - I see what you all see: sloppy, undisciplined, no accountability, unprepared, unintelligent play. This is what is embarrassing - the clown car show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Here we go again. This has me all excited , then come Mid January nothing will have changed. Next 3 weeks will be 3 long weeks that's for sure. Excited? This is like throwing some tires on a dumpster fire. If this is true, and I doubt it, it means a near total rebuild and many more years of ineptitude. That doesn't sound too exciting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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