Maury Ballstein Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Say what you will about President The Donald, but there are 1,000 families in Indiana who are going to have a much nicer Christmas this year, and a brighter future. But what about kitty and Russia ! Never forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Say what you will about President The Donald, but there are 1,000 families in Indiana who are going to have a much nicer Christmas this year, and a brighter future. Say what you will about President Obama, but there are 2M people who are going to have better healthcare this Christmas. [/lberals in 2009] Listen, if you guys embarrass us, I'm gonna be pissed. You can't rail against Solyndra but be happy for 1000 Hoosiers. You can't rail against Obama paying off Iran for hostages but be happy that Trump just paid off Carrier. I recognize there are plenty of differences, but in the end, he's doing the one thing true conservatives hate: getting the government involved in stupid stuff that has a very limited sparkle rate. On the upside, he's apparently the Democrat many Republicans always wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 CNN crew jokes about Donald Trump's plane crashing FTVLive has obtained video of Malveauxjoke before her live hit on CNN. The crew was waiting on Trump's appearance at the press conference and waiting for his plane to land. At one point the crew joked about Trump's plane crashing. Video available at link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Say what you will about President Obama, but there are 2M people who are going to have better healthcare this Christmas. [/lberals in 2009] Listen, if you guys embarrass us, I'm gonna be pissed. You can't rail against Solyndra but be happy for 1000 Hoosiers. You can't rail against Obama paying off Iran for hostages but be happy that Trump just paid off Carrier. I recognize there are plenty of differences, but in the end, he's doing the one thing true conservatives hate: getting the government involved in stupid stuff that has a very limited sparkle rate. On the upside, he's apparently the Democrat many Republicans always wanted. Solyndra was throwing money down a black hole and much of it ended back in Democrat campaign coffers. The Carrier jobs are there to stay. They're going to spend $30+ million in the local economy revitalizing that plant. I don't know of any hostages United Technologies took and how much uranium they're refining toward their goal of getting a nuclear bomb. At least so far, it looks like the scale is still tipped heavily in favor of B.O. giving $1.4 Billion in CASH to the wack jobs in Iran Vs. some local tax breaks given by the State of Indiana. And as far as I know, the IRS isn't going to take over $3k from me in extra taxes to help with those people keeping their jobs, like they did to give those 20million people healthcare insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Solyndra was throwing money down a black hole and much of it ended back in Democrat campaign coffers. The Carrier jobs are there to stay. They're going to spend $30+ million in the local economy revitalizing that plant. I don't know of any hostages United Technologies took and how much uranium they're refining toward their goal of getting a nuclear bomb. At least so far, it looks like the scale is still tipped heavily in favor of B.O. giving $1.4 Billion in CASH to the wack jobs in Iran Vs. some local tax breaks given by the State of Indiana. And as far as I know, the IRS isn't going to take over $3k from me in extra taxes to help with those people keeping their jobs, like they did to give those 20million people healthcare insurance. Process is more important than individual outcomes. By accepting President-Elect Trump's actions you legitimize not only President Obama's actions, but all actions along these lines taken by future presidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Solyndra was throwing money down a black hole and much of it ended back in Democrat campaign coffers. The Carrier jobs are there to stay. That's not the point. Process is more important than individual outcomes. By accepting President-Elect Trump's actions you legitimize not only President Obama's actions, but all actions along these lines taken by future presidents. This is the point. I don't always agree with TYTT, but I do wish I had his brevity. I mean, I'm no OC, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Local and State governments commonly give businesses incentives to remain in the area or move there. No federal money was involved with the incentives to Carrier. A lot of federal money was involved with Solyndra and Iran. I could see where Trump may have used the bully pulpit to encourage Carrier to stay and talked up what he hopes to be a business friendly atmosphere in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 That's not the point. This is the point. I don't always agree with TYTT, but I do wish I had his brevity. I mean, I'm no OC, but still... So your point is spending money and not what it's spent on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) So your point is spending money and not what it's spent on? His point is about the legitimate powers of the executive. The very reason for the separation of powers. You can't be accepting of what President-Elect Trump has done without being accepting of what President Obama has done, as each had the same mandates given their elections. The same goes for all future presidents, and their eventual actions. The Executive branch is the most dangerous branch to vest with unilateral powers, as it is the most consolidated; and whatever powers you vest your guy with will eventually be vested with a guy who is decidedly not yours, which is what Democrats are dealing with today. But my all means, double down. EDIT: Perhaps I shouldn't put words into LA's mouth, but that was what I inferred his point to be, and it's certainly my point. Edited December 2, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 His point is about the legitimate powers of the executive. The very reason for the separation of powers. You can't be accepting of what President-Elect Trump has done without being accepting of what President Obama has done, as each had the same mandates given their elections. So his point is that using your job to do good things is the same as using your job to do bad things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 (edited) So his point is that using your job to do good things is the same as using your job to do bad things? You're using a subjective standard for "good" and "bad"; and legitimizing all of the actions you deem to be "bad" by legitimizing the powers used to do "bad". Again, your guy will not always hold the Presidency; and those you disagree with have a different subjective view of what is "good" and what is "bad", and will use those powers to do what you believe is "bad" in the name of what they believe is "good". This is no way to run a country, and the Founders knew this, which is why they went to great lengths to limit this sort of nonsense. But hey, perhaps you're personally more comfortable living under a system with strong strains of monarchy running through it. Edited December 2, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Local and State governments commonly give businesses incentives to remain in the area or move there. No federal money was involved with the incentives to Carrier. A lot of federal money was involved with Solyndra and Iran. I could see where Trump may have used the bully pulpit to encourage Carrier to stay and talked up what he hopes to be a business friendly atmosphere in the future. He threatened the company with punitive tax measures. And what business does a president have interfering in a businesses decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 So his point is that using your job to do good things is the same as using your job to do bad things? If this were a vacuum then the Presidential action to save the Carrier jobs was solidly well done. But it's not. By extending the benefits to Carrier makes them more competitive, relative to Dunkirk, Burnham, Peerless, etc. What happens when Carrier's special privileges mean lost sales at the other boiler companies and they have to lay people off. That's why it's a very dangerous precedent for the Executive to set, because it inserts him into the marketplace where he decides on the winners & the losers. That has never, ever worked out well, and is the perfect definition of crony capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Process is more important than individual outcomes. By accepting President-Elect Trump's actions you legitimize not only President Obama's actions, but all actions along these lines taken by future presidents. What actions are you accusing Trump of doing that aren't consistent with his soon to be role as chief executive? If this were a vacuum then the Presidential action to save the Carrier jobs was solidly well done. But it's not. By extending the benefits to Carrier makes them more competitive, relative to Dunkirk, Burnham, Peerless, etc. What happens when Carrier's special privileges mean lost sales at the other boiler companies and they have to lay people off. That's why it's a very dangerous precedent for the Executive to set, because it inserts him into the marketplace where he decides on the winners & the losers. That has never, ever worked out well, and is the perfect definition of crony capitalism. Local and State governments commonly give businesses incentives to remain in the area or move there. No federal money was involved with the incentives to Carrier. A lot of federal money was involved with Solyndra and Iran. I could see where Trump may have used the bully pulpit to encourage Carrier to stay and talked up what he hopes to be a business friendly atmosphere in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Well, I hope you guys will be okay with Trump using the executive washroom in the Oval office - even though "Obama did it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 If this were a vacuum then the Presidential action to save the Carrier jobs was solidly well done. But it's not. By extending the benefits to Carrier makes them more competitive, relative to Dunkirk, Burnham, Peerless, etc. What happens when Carrier's special privileges mean lost sales at the other boiler companies and they have to lay people off. That's why it's a very dangerous precedent for the Executive to set, because it inserts him into the marketplace where he decides on the winners & the losers. That has never, ever worked out well, and is the perfect definition of crony capitalism. As much as Trump is taking the credit...was it a Presidential action that kept Carrier in Indiana? I've been under the impression that it was the State of Indiana that cut the deal, and Trump's just riding the coattails. Which is a hell of a piddling shade of difference, given that even though the reports I've read say Holcomb negotiated it, Pence is still technically the governor... (Gee, I wonder why they chose an Indiana factory for this...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Well, I hope you guys will be okay with Trump using the executive washroom in the Oval office - even though "Obama did it." They're arguing apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 As much as Trump is taking the credit...was it a Presidential action that kept Carrier in Indiana? I've been under the impression that it was the State of Indiana that cut the deal, and Trump's just riding the coattails. Which is a hell of a piddling shade of difference, given that even though the reports I've read say Holcomb negotiated it, Pence is still technically the governor... (Gee, I wonder why they chose an Indiana factory for this...) Well, eight of the ten AC companies already have plants in Mexico... and I'm not talking about Blue Agave either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 Well, I hope you guys will be okay with Trump using the executive washroom in the Oval office - even though "Obama did it." How cleverly dismissive of you. Oh, wait... no it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 2, 2016 Share Posted December 2, 2016 What the hell, people? Look, I understand the battle lines are drawn. Progressives like gatorman just spent the past eight years creating excuses for Obama's lack of leadership and protocol. It's natural to want to take that kind of fight back at them. But this Carrier thing is PRECISELY the kind of thing you DON'T want your president doing. He should have absolutely NOTHING to do with this. Why the hell is that so difficult to understand? Cripes, if this were Obama, you guys would be pissing yourselves right now. Stand for principle, wouldcha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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