bbb Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Point made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Here is a report on the NFLs most recent information on how football affects the brains of retirees: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11513442/data-estimates-3-10-nfl-retirees-face-cognitive-woes This is from the league, mind you NOT players or families. Edited December 2, 2015 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 So sad to see yet another life shortened because of the NFL. He died at 84; many, many people without the money he was paid die much earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Here is a report on the NFLs most recent information on how football affects the brains of retirees: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11513442/data-estimates-3-10-nfl-retirees-face-cognitive-woes This is from the league, mind you NOT players or families. Good, this is getting somewhere! For those who don't want to read it, a key finding from the NFL sponsored study: "Former players between 50 and 59 years old develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia at rates 14 to 23 times higher than the general population of the same age range, according to the documents. The rates for players between 60-64 are as much as 35 times the rate of the general population, the documents reported." Neurocognitive deficits and symptoms of dementia can be measured in living human beings - since not everyone gets tested, there can be some question of whether symptoms are under-reported in the general population, but still, there it is: Control: general population reporting neurocognitive symptoms Football players: higher rate of reporting neurocognitive symptoms But it doesn't support the statement "CTE rate in the general population for men under 75 is 5%. As opposed to 96% for the above tested players." Far as I know, the CTE rate in the general population is unknown. Normal healthy chaps don't send their brains off to be autopsied, unlike players whose families and friends are concerned about their behavior and health If I told you you could live till you were 90, but the last 10 of those years were in a near vegetative state, the last twenty in severe pain where any kind of movement hurts, and the last fifty (since you were forty) you are a complete jerk to everyone around you. Literally having crazy intense mood swings over truly nothing, where your family has no idea if you will straight up murder them, because it's that bad and they watch the news and others with CTE have done that, and even more have killed themselves. Would you sign up for that at 19 fully knowing the future? Would you sign your future family up for that? Seriously, would you? I could be wrong and often am, but the 19 yr old guys I've known think they're immortal and health problems will happen to someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Whenever this conversation comes up I'm always the person that comes across as supporting football against an onslaught. That being said I'm not against the improvement of technology to increase player safety. I have no issue with the advancement of helmets and other gear. I just don't ever want to see the day when the game is drastically changed, or disappears. Some might argue that it already has been drastically changed. That being said occupational hazards go back as far as time. How many people died in factories before labor laws? How many chemicals caused lifelong damage to factory workers and construction workers? My point is that these things happen, and we try to improve safety when the truth is uncovered. The majority of the millions of people whose lives were cut short due to work conditions at their 9 to 5s never received the compensation pro athletes do. Sadly it seems that many people just want to blame the game, and bring about its demise. We didn't say education was a bad thing when we discovered our schools were filled with asbestos. I could be wrong and often am, but the 19 yr old guys I've known think they're immortal and health problems will happen to someone else. I can say if you told me at 19 I could be a football star, I would have said yes even if future consequences were laid out in front of me. It would have meant that I could get any woman I wanted, and frankly that's all that would have mattered to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Good, this is getting somewhere! For those who don't want to read it, a key finding from the NFL sponsored study: "Former players between 50 and 59 years old develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia at rates 14 to 23 times higher than the general population of the same age range, according to the documents. The rates for players between 60-64 are as much as 35 times the rate of the general population, the documents reported." Neurocognitive deficits and symptoms of dementia can be measured in living human beings - since not everyone gets tested, there can be some question of whether symptoms are under-reported in the general population, but still, there it is: Control: general population reporting neurocognitive symptoms Football players: higher rate of reporting neurocognitive symptoms But it doesn't support the statement "CTE rate in the general population for men under 75 is 5%. As opposed to 96% for the above tested players." Far as I know, the CTE rate in the general population is unknown. Normal healthy chaps don't send their brains off to be autopsied, unlike players whose families and friends are concerned about their behavior and health I could be wrong and often am, but the 19 yr old guys I've known think they're immortal and health problems will happen to someone else. Absolutely, but what about their moms? What if the general perception shifts and football isn't seen as an appropriate suburban and urban sport, and is relegated to both really densely populated areas with real low per capita income, and really rural areas, where cost of living is low so, a little goes a long way. What if Lebron played football? What if TO played basketball? Shoot, what if Hogan played lacrosse? Pegula should of brought a basketball team back to Buffalo or Rochester before investing that much in a sport that has substantial risk (especially at that price). Happy he did of course. A 19 year old is definitely going to feel invincible, but they are more going to feel guided by their friends to play a more glamorous sport. Also, don't discount a kid's morality...they are hitting the kids who will later have head injuries, and they are hurting future loved ones. Thinking lacrosse has a chance to get big actually. Played for a long time, and the sport has surprisingly few head injuries from my experience and is a ton of fun, with really good college scholarship opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If I told you you could live till you were 90, but the last 10 of those years were in a near vegetative state, the last twenty in severe pain where any kind of movement hurts, and the last fifty (since you were forty) you are a complete jerk to everyone around you. Literally having crazy intense mood swings over truly nothing, where your family has no idea if you will straight up murder them, because it's that bad and they watch the news and others with CTE have done that, and even more have killed themselves. Would you sign up for that at 19 fully knowing the future? Would you sign your future family up for that? Seriously, would you? In my case, nobody would notice any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 In my case, nobody would notice any difference. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Absolutely, but what about their moms? What if the general perception shifts and football isn't seen as an appropriate suburban and urban sport, and is relegated to both really densely populated areas with real low per capita income, and really rural areas, where cost of living is low so, a little goes a long way. What if Lebron played football? What if TO played basketball? Shoot, what if Hogan played lacrosse? Pegula should of brought a basketball team back to Buffalo or Rochester before investing that much in a sport that has substantial risk (especially at that price). Happy he did of course. A 19 year old is definitely going to feel invincible, but they are more going to feel guided by their friends to play a more glamorous sport. Also, don't discount a kid's morality...they are hitting the kids who will later have head injuries, and they are hurting future loved ones. Thinking lacrosse has a chance to get big actually. Played for a long time, and the sport has surprisingly few head injuries from my experience and is a ton of fun, with really good college scholarship opportunities. I think some of what you're saying has already happened. However, as long as football exists there will always be participants. We've already seen the shift to urban kids being more likely to play. I don't see that trend ending. If you're an urban mother that has possibly seen tragedy all around such as deaths and people going to prison, football doesn't seem very dangerous at all. It becomes a good option for your child to get out and succeed. The participation decline really hits the suburban kids. We live in an era were many suburban kids basically get their diapers changer by Mom until they're 40. Those are the parents that are going to have a problem with it. Especially when money isn't as big as factor as it may be with rural and urban kids. The dream to hit it big playing football might not be as alluring. Without getting too personal, the idea that football negativly affects your future family is something I would have never thought of. I would have seen it as an opportunity to help set up my family with good things for life. Things I will never be able to provide. You see a lot of NFL players that do big things for their Mother with their first paycheck. People with motives such as those will never shy away from pro football. I could be wrong though. I played pee wee football, so I may have CTE. Edited December 2, 2015 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Absolutely, but what about their moms? What if the general perception shifts and football isn't seen as an appropriate suburban and urban sport, and is relegated to both really densely populated areas with real low per capita income, and really rural areas, where cost of living is low so, a little goes a long way. What if Lebron played football? What if TO played basketball? Shoot, what if Hogan played lacrosse? Pegula should of brought a basketball team back to Buffalo or Rochester before investing that much in a sport that has substantial risk (especially at that price). Happy he did of course. A 19 year old is definitely going to feel invincible, but they are more going to feel guided by their friends to play a more glamorous sport. Also, don't discount a kid's morality...they are hitting the kids who will later have head injuries, and they are hurting future loved ones. Thinking lacrosse has a chance to get big actually. Played for a long time, and the sport has surprisingly few head injuries from my experience and is a ton of fun, with really good college scholarship opportunities. The reality is that the football skillset does not translate well to other sports. TO never makes it to the NBA. Just like Antonio Gates, Julius Thomas and Jimmy Graham. But they've made millions playing the only sport that fit their skillset which featured their ability to be athletic amidst violence. There are countless more talented athletes than those guys chasing their hoops dreams to futility . So football goes away and there are 800-1,000 less people making millions of dollars every year another 800 or so marginal players thoroughly unemployed in sports. Simple as that. If you think they are going to make it up in lacrosse and soccer......good luck with that. That will be different people altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The reality is that the football skillset does not translate well to other sports. TO never makes it to the NBA. Just like Antonio Gates, Julius Thomas and Jimmy Graham. But they've made millions playing the only sport that fit their skillset which featured their ability to be athletic amidst violence. There are countless more talented athletes than those guys chasing their hoops dreams to futility . So football goes away and there are 800-1,000 less people making millions of dollars every year another 800 or so marginal players thoroughly unemployed in sports. Simple as that. If you think they are going to make it up in lacrosse and soccer......good luck with that. That will be different people altogether. You can make a ton more money playing baseball though. Could football's key to survival be that it isn't played all year long, like baseball and basketball, so the cost of developing the players is more heavily the responsibility of the school districts than the families. Elite go to elite camps over the summer, sure, but I'm sure you get scholarships for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 We all probably have some cte in our brains. I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm fine. And I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 You can make a ton more money playing baseball though. Could football's key to survival be that it isn't played all year long, like baseball and basketball, so the cost of developing the players is more heavily the responsibility of the school districts than the families. Elite go to elite camps over the summer, sure, but I'm sure you get scholarships for that. The VAST majority of these guys can't play ANY other high paying pro sports. If they could.....they WOULD. Richie Incognito couldn't earn minimum wage in any sport that didn't involve violence and he's one of the best at his job in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 So sad to see yet another life shortened because of the NFL. Terribly sad to see yet another guy outlive the average male life expectancy by eight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 We all probably have some cte in our brains. I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm fine. And I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Good, this is getting somewhere! For those who don't want to read it, a key finding from the NFL sponsored study: "Former players between 50 and 59 years old develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia at rates 14 to 23 times higher than the general population of the same age range, according to the documents. The rates for players between 60-64 are as much as 35 times the rate of the general population, the documents reported." Neurocognitive deficits and symptoms of dementia can be measured in living human beings - since not everyone gets tested, there can be some question of whether symptoms are under-reported in the general population, but still, there it is: Control: general population reporting neurocognitive symptoms Football players: higher rate of reporting neurocognitive symptoms But it doesn't support the statement "CTE rate in the general population for men under 75 is 5%. As opposed to 96% for the above tested players." Far as I know, the CTE rate in the general population is unknown. Normal healthy chaps don't send their brains off to be autopsied, unlike players whose families and friends are concerned about their behavior and health I could be wrong and often am, but the 19 yr old guys I've known think they're immortal and health problems will happen to someone else. The chance of developing Alzheimer's is 14-35 times more likely if you've played football. Even the NFL's actuary admits the chances of developing dementia are about 8x more likely for players. No real debate on those topics even if you can find a happy older player bucking the trend. The real issue is and always has been kids playing football. Who cares what a grown man does? But the 9 year old getting head trauma that will put him at risk later in life is a real issue. Edited December 2, 2015 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm pretty sure being married to Kathy Lee can induce CTE - THAT is traumatic. Dude- that was wrong, funny and accurate, but wrong. Thanks for the laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 probably CTE is in a very high percentage of people who NEVER played football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Good, this is getting somewhere! For those who don't want to read it, a key finding from the NFL sponsored study: "Former players between 50 and 59 years old develop Alzheimer's disease and dementia at rates 14 to 23 times higher than the general population of the same age range, according to the documents. The rates for players between 60-64 are as much as 35 times the rate of the general population, the documents reported." The problem for those pointing the finger at the NFL is that all experts acknowledge that CTE is the sum of countless blows to the head of any magnitude, not just NFL concussions, so there is no way to assign blame to the NFL alone when these guys started accumulating head shots in Pop Warner. Why has no one sued the NCAA for the higher incidence of neurological bad outcomes of NFL players? Where is the study of college football players who never made it the the NFL? Why is there no such study? Hmmmm. Absolutely, but what about their moms? What if the general perception shifts and football isn't seen as an appropriate suburban and urban sport, and is relegated to both really densely populated areas with real low per capita income, and really rural areas, where cost of living is low so, a little goes a long way. This is football right now. Look at the SEC and where those kids come from. The reality is that the football skillset does not translate well to other sports. TO never makes it to the NBA. Just like Antonio Gates, Julius Thomas and Jimmy Graham. All three of those guys could play in the NBA today, where the talent level on the bench is pretty awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 You can make a ton more money playing baseball though. Sure, but the hardest thing to do in any sport is to hit a baseball. Being big, fast and strong isn't enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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