Doc Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) So why would there be any disillusionment? "I think of the Seattle game,'' NFL network analyst Brian Baldinger said earlier this week at the Eagles OTAs. "He had the biggest hole he saw all year. The biggest hole. He should have hit his head on the goal post. But he saw Earl Thomas coming on a dead sprint to blow him up. And he curled up and fell down. "It's a 10-point game, anybody's game. And it was a game that really swung everything in December. But I think Chip saw that. And between that, taking him off the field on third down, taking him off the field on goal line . . . [Kelly was saying] 'He's just not tough enough or what I want.' " Beats me. "The grass is always greener..."? Edited November 15, 2015 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The unsung hero of the NE Patriots is their Defense. They are really good. Let's not forget that the Bills had 4 stalled drives at the end of the game. They couldn't convert those third downs to burn the clock, giving Jets more and more opportunities. If the Bills play like that next Monday against NE, the outcome is inevitable. The outcome is likely inevitable regardless. The Pats D is not the Jets D though. The Bills were able to protect vs Pats front seven. They won't see a monster front 4 like that until the season finale vs Jets. The issue with the Pats is keeping them out of the end zone far more than concerns about the D. The bills will need to run the ball and have long drives to even have a chance. No, Shady McCoy is not known as a back that lovers contact or to bang it between the tackles. He's about making guys miss and cutting before he heads upfield. Whatever . The guy is a special talent , far better than anything the Bills had and they got him for next to nothing . As for his salary, who cares? The owners have deep pockets. McCoy is kind of what everyone wished Spiller would be. CJ always made too many moves. You get that some with Shady, but you get a lot of great runs too. Spiller was good for breaking one around the edge once or twice a season. That and a whole bunch of carries for no yards. I don't know if McCoy is a top 3 back, but it was a good trade for what they gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Like Coastie said upthread, the real test is if you can run to win when everyone in the building knows you are going to. That's what made those Thurman teams so great, him getting 3 yards on those 3rd and 2s late in key division games. Big step for McCoy and the O as a whole tonight. Running through Bryan Cox...good stinkin times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Actually, it IS arguable. The stats are right in front of you. He had the LOWEST yards per touch of any player in the NFL with 250 or more touches last year. Two of the last 3 years he has finished with league average, ypc. The narrative that he is a top 3 RB is drifting......but apparently there are A LOT of elite RB's. But the year in the middle (his first with Chip Kelly and the last year in Philly his line was healthy) he led the league in rushing and had 5.1 yards per carry.... and the other two years he had 4.2 YPC while his replacement is getting 3.6 in the same offense this year. The Eagles used 7 different offensive line combinations with 10 different players during the year and all of their subs were terrible. The starting RT was suspended the 1st 4 weeks. He was also without Evan Mathis in weeks 2-8. In weeks 2-4 when both he AND Lane Johnson were out (amongst others in some of them) here's Shady's YPC 4.2, 1.2, 1.7. The 4 weeks after the RT came back? 3.4, 6.8, 4.2, 4.9. The starting RG (Todd Herremans) went out for the year starting in week 9, week 9's YPC? 1.6 Matt Tobin was RG that week and the next week when Shady averaged 3.8 YPC. They replaced Tobin with Andrew Gardner in week 10 because Tobin stunk. Shady's YPC the following two weeks with Gardner as the only replacement was 6.2 and 6.4. Jason Kelce the center, went out for the year in week 12, so again, with 2 starting O-lineman out YPC dropped from 6.2 and 6.4 to 2.9, 4.0, 4.0, and 5.8 to finish out the year. So, in terms of cherry picking stats to prove a point. If I chose week 4 last year vs. San Francisco when Shady carried the ball 10 times for 17 yards for a 1.7 average is that fair when, in that game, there were four backups starting on the O-Line? Only Jason Peters was where he belonged. Both guards and the center were backups and the normal RG was at RT. The games where Shady's YPC was the worst were the games where there was the most turmoil on the o-line. That's completely understandable. When things were somewhat stable he was great. I'm aware PFF graded the Eagles as the best run blocking line in the league last year. In their own write up they comment on how that was based on the strength of their starters and that ALL of their backups struggled when they had to play. They had to play a lot. It was a big issue. The line was bad to the point that the Eagles own website (usually the rah rah everything is awesome source of information) talked about how the line took a step back in 2014 and how they need to be better in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 McCoy is the best I've seen anyone run in a Bills uni since Thurman. vow...that is a pretty big statement...We had guys named Travis Henry and Marshawn Lynch who were no pushovers (however the coaching staff may have handled them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Philly on a roll. Philly running the ball great. Kelly an awesome coach. Oops -- blown 13-pt lead at home to the heartless Fish. That was a "bad 'ol" game by the Iggles. But hey, at least we have a bonafide football expert on our board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Philly on a roll. Philly running the ball great. Kelly an awesome coach. Oops -- blown 13-pt lead at home to the heartless Fish. That was a "bad 'ol" game by the Iggles. But hey, at least we have a bonafide football expert on our board. I like a Philly on a roll... With peppers and cheese whiz of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I like a Philly on a roll... With peppers and cheese whiz of course. No missteak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Philly on a roll. Philly running the ball great. Kelly an awesome coach. Oops -- blown 13-pt lead at home to the heartless Fish. That was a "bad 'ol" game by the Iggles. But hey, at least we have a bonafide football expert on our board. And just 83 yards rushing while averaging 2.3 YPC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Philly on a roll. Philly running the ball great. Kelly an awesome coach. Oops -- blown 13-pt lead at home to the heartless Fish. That was a "bad 'ol" game by the Iggles. But hey, at least we have a bonafide football expert on our board. I actually think Kelly might be gone come the end of the season. What possibly saves him is the NFC East is not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 And just 83 yards rushing while averaging 2.3 YPC. I'm not going to do the back and forth every week about McCoy or Kelly. I didn't do it every week when McCoy was struggling and I'm certainly not going to complain when he plays well. Kelly does not regret ridding himself of McCoy. The McCoy deal will still end badly for the Bills, unfortunately. But I am used to these arguments.......I told people Mike Williams would be a bust and they should have taken McKinnie.......and initially Williams looked good and McKinnie held out and I got a Williams/McKinnie update every week from my fellow TSW'ers. McKinnie had a very long productive career as an NFL LT.......by definition a good use of a high draft pick.....Williams became one of the great draft busts of his era. Same situation with the Jason Peters trade.......everybody here hated him because he wanted a raise for moving to LT and they all loved Wood early and projected him to be a perennial pro bowler etc.......Peters meanwhile had a slow start in Philly and we got a Peters update every week. Peters has since been a perennial All Pro....and HOF candidate.....even made the All Pro team the season immediately after tearing his achilles and re-tearing it halfway thru rehab. Wood has been JAG. One of the worst trades in NFL history.......and yet folks like you thought it was a good deal for the Bills. The list of instances where I told you guys so goes on and on. Time will prove me right as it almost always has in the 19 years I've been posting here. But don't expect me in these McCoy threads if he runs 16 times for 14 yards versus KC when the spotlight comes back off. I already told you it's not going to pay off and my track record speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I already told you it's not going to pay off and my track record speaks for itself. Badol - what is your criteria for is "paying off"? Because McCoy isn't going to be a bust like Williams and he has already shown this year that he isn't JAG at this moment in time. I certainly am worried about the cap implications down the road - but I just want to understand what the kind of production and standard you are looking for to consider it a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Paying off would be producing at a very high level for 4 seasons......at least most of his contract. But it's not even going to be close. He will be 2 seasons and done and the Bills will be eating around $15M in dead money. He wore out his welcome with Kelly in two years.....he will do the same with Rex/Roman. And LB and RB will be high priority positions for the Bills in this years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Paying off would be producing at a very high level for 4 seasons......at least most of his contract. But it's not even going to be close. He will be 2 seasons and done and the Bills will be eating around $15M in dead money. He wore out his welcome with Kelly in two years.....he will do the same with Rex/Roman. And LB and RB will be high priority positions for the Bills in this years draft. Okay. That is fair. Not sure I look at it exactly the same way - I think if he makes a big enough impact on this team the first two years to this being a winning team and a play-off team and is around in the third year even if he is no longer the bell cow then I will consider it to have paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Okay. That is fair. Not sure I look at it exactly the same way - I think if he makes a big enough impact on this team the first two years to this being a winning team and a play-off team and is around in the third year even if he is no longer the bell cow then I will consider it to have paid off. I never said I thought he would make a big enough impact either. All excuses aside, the reality is that he is 14th in the NFL in rushing. We're all happy now because the Bills escaped NY with a win and he had an excellent game.......but back to back road games versus NE and KC could leave fans much less satisfied if he doesn't repeat that effort and intensity. To me, the KC game turned the Bills season south in each of the last two seasons so I've had that game circled since the schedule came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 To me, the KC game turned the Bills season south in each of the last two seasons so I've had that game circled since the schedule came out. I absolutely agree with that. I just doubt if it goes south in the next 2 weeks it does so because of McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'm not going to do the back and forth every week about McCoy or Kelly. I didn't do it every week when McCoy was struggling and I'm certainly not going to complain when he plays well. Kelly does not regret ridding himself of McCoy. The McCoy deal will still end badly for the Bills, unfortunately. But I am used to these arguments.......I told people Mike Williams would be a bust and they should have taken McKinnie.......and initially Williams looked good and McKinnie held out and I got a Williams/McKinnie update every week from my fellow TSW'ers. McKinnie had a very long productive career as an NFL LT.......by definition a good use of a high draft pick.....Williams became one of the great draft busts of his era. Same situation with the Jason Peters trade.......everybody here hated him because he wanted a raise for moving to LT and they all loved Wood early and projected him to be a perennial pro bowler etc.......Peters meanwhile had a slow start in Philly and we got a Peters update every week. Peters has since been a perennial All Pro....and HOF candidate.....even made the All Pro team the season immediately after tearing his achilles and re-tearing it halfway thru rehab. Wood has been JAG. One of the worst trades in NFL history.......and yet folks like you thought it was a good deal for the Bills. The list of instances where I told you guys so goes on and on. Time will prove me right as it almost always has in the 19 years I've been posting here. But don't expect me in these McCoy threads if he runs 16 times for 14 yards versus KC when the spotlight comes back off. I already told you it's not going to pay off and my track record speaks for itself. He should. His investment in replacement RB's has been poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I never said I thought he would make a big enough impact either. All excuses aside, the reality is that he is 14th in the NFL in rushing. We're all happy now because the Bills escaped NY with a win and he had an excellent game.......but back to back road games versus NE and KC could leave fans much less satisfied if he doesn't repeat that effort and intensity. To me, the KC game turned the Bills season south in each of the last two seasons so I've had that game circled since the schedule came out. The bottom line is , who cares? McCoy is a Bills and Alonso isn't . The D was better last year without him and he was expendable. They weren't going to re- sign Spiller so they made what was a no- brainer trade. If they need an LB they will draft one. That's why they have a draft after all. Are we still talking about Donahoes mistake of a pick by not drafting McKinnie? I don't know too many bills fans that thought that was a good pick at the time. Most wanted mount McKinnie and thought it was a crap pick. You aren't exactly a beacon of wisdom in the night if you hated it too. You may want to quit patting yourself on the back over that one. Jason Peters? The team was under an austerity budget with uh previous ownership and his bean counters that ran the team. Peters had already been given a big raise, but wanted a new deal again. Still, most Bills fans I know wanted the Bills to pay the guy and keep him. Do you remember the catch phrase " Ralph is cheap !" that was omnipresent on this board for years? Or do you think Bills fans en masse supported trading a top LT , and you again were singular in your thoughts? Think again. I think it's safe to say most Bills fans have moved on from the screwups of previous GMs and ownership making choices solely with the bottom line in mind. The McCoy trade was done months ago and the cost was very low. Who gives a crap how much $ they are paying him? Dead money against the cap ( whatever it will be) 3 seasons from now means squat. That's an eternity in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I'm not going to do the back and forth every week about McCoy or Kelly. I didn't do it every week when McCoy was struggling and I'm certainly not going to complain when he plays well. So injured = struggling? Got it. Great job by Kelly yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 At this point, I'd be surprised if Murray and Mathews combined rush for what Shady did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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