Wide 9 - Denver bringing the heat!

[playman]

wade´s d is 1-gap-attack. almost a 5-2.

[Heitz]

Remember when Schwarz was taking over for Pettine and everyone freaked out because he was going to bring the Wide 9 and it was going to be the next epic D system to fail in Buffalo? It would NEVER work with our players?

 

Yeah, not much of a point, just funny how things work out...

[NoSaint]

Remember when Schwarz was taking over for Pettine and everyone freaked out because he was going to bring the Wide 9 and it was going to be the next epic D system to fail in Buffalo? It would NEVER work with our players?

 

Yeah, not much of a point, just funny how things work out...

our players were perfectly suited - really the issue was would they be able to keep the type of personnel it requires to run it for more than 1 year with hughes and dareus coming up for deals. Its not easy maintaining 4 elite rushes, and without that the system would be a struggle.

[TheFunPolice]

little did we know that the challenge wasn't keep them here but actually using their talents!

 

I have faith that Rex spent the bye figuring things out.

[KOKBILLS]

Regardless of what system is being run I think it's pretty obvious Rex has come in here and messed up a VERY good thing...

 

111 sacks in 2013 and 2014 combined...That's 3.46 per game under Pettine and Schwartz...

 

11 in 7 games under Rex dropping almost 2 sacks per game (1.57)...

 

Look...I'm not going to sit back and blame this Defense for all the Bills problems...But when you come out and talk about being one of the best Defenses of all-time...Then you clearly regress with the same players...Well...

 

I had to sit through a full week after that Cincy game listening to Buffalo media talk about how incredible that Cincy Offense was, and how they were 2nd only to the Pats...And how they had so many great players on Offense they were all but un-defendable...Then yesterday I watch a VERY average Pittsburgh Defense...a Defense that is 26th in yards allowed...all but shut down that incredible Cincy Offense at home mostly by putting pressure on the QB...They held Cincy to 6 points until the 2:57 mark of the 4th Quarter!!! The unstoppable Cincy Offense...Right...

 

Anyway...I really hope we can stop making excuses for Rex...He's screwed this Defense up and he needs to fix the damage he's done...Period...End of story...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Regardless of what system is being run I think it's pretty obvious Rex has come in here and messed up a VERY good thing...

 

111 sacks in 2013 and 2014 combined...That's 3.46 per game under Pettine and Schwartz...

 

11 in 7 games under Rex dropping almost 2 sacks per game (1.57)...

 

Look...I'm not going to sit back and blame this Defense for all the Bills problems...But when you come out and talk about being one of the best Defenses of all-time...Then you clearly regress with the same players...Well...

 

I had to sit through a full week after that Cincy game listening to Buffalo media talk about how incredible that Cincy Offense was, and how they were 2nd only to the Pats...And how they had so many great players on Offense they were all but un-defendable...Then yesterday I watch a VERY average Pittsburgh Defense...a Defense that is 26th in yards allowed...all but shut down that incredible Cincy Offense at home mostly by putting pressure on the QB...They held Cincy to 6 points until the 2:57 mark of the 4th Quarter!!! The unstoppable Cincy Offense...Right...

 

Anyway...I really hope we can stop making excuses for Rex...He's screwed this Defense up and he needs to fix the damage he's done...Period...End of story...

 

 

This isn't an excuse for Rex, but has anybody else noticed that when we DO rush our front 4, they don't get pressure?

 

Mario, Dareus, and Hughes - aren't getting it done. What changed in a year? I'm not sure - but all 3 of them are playing worse than a year ago.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

This isn't an excuse for Rex, but has anybody else noticed that when we DO rush our front 4, they don't get pressure?

 

Mario, Dareus, and Hughes - aren't getting it done. What changed in a year? I'm not sure - but all 3 of them are playing worse than a year ago.

 

They are not rushing from rushing positions though. They are in tight trying to play the run. It isn't as a simple as "how many people do you rush?" It is the whole scheme.

[KOKBILLS]

 

 

This isn't an excuse for Rex, but has anybody else noticed that when we DO rush our front 4, they don't get pressure?

 

Mario, Dareus, and Hughes - aren't getting it done. What changed in a year? I'm not sure - but all 3 of them are playing worse than a year ago.

 

I don't claim to be an expert...but something is obviously up...I agree they don't seem to be getting much pressure...But it also looks like opposing QB's all too often know exactly where to go with the ball before the snap...They are identifying the weaknesses in our Defense too easily...At least that's the way it looks...I think whatever Schwartz and Pettine were doing...it was confusing QB's pre-snap MUCH more than Rex has...And the hesitation gave our D-line enough time to get the sacks...

 

There is not much scientific about this...But I just get the feeling that all too often opposing Offenses have caught on to Rex...I don't know...I think the possibility that Mario, Hughes, Kyle, and Dareus all got old at the same time is far less likely...I do know that Rex does not like to rotate out the D-line like Schwartz did and maybe these guys are just wearing down fast...Schwarz came with a full 2nd team D-line (Lawson, Bryant, Wynn, Charles) and they played a lot in 2014 combining for 9 sacks and 45 tackles...That's like an extra VERY good D-lineman...I think the rotation kept our stars fresh...It made a difference...

[peterpan]

 

Yikes. This is so bizarre maybe I shouldn't respond. What Brady does is impressive. If it was easy, every QB in the nation would copy it because it sure is effective. But it's not easy. It takes an immense amount of skill to play the way Brady does. Cheater or not, he's a first round HOFer.

 

In regards to the earlier posts... Rex likes to say his defense is "multiple." If so, I'd love to see him borrow some of the concepts we used last year.... including Wide 9.

Why aren't other teams copying it? its a copy cat league after all. You mean to tell me that Manning, Rogers, Brees, Luck, etc aren't capable of throwing 3 yard flat passes to wide open receivers, without having any sort of rush in your face? Please

 

Those guys can't copy it because they don't know what the other teams defense is before the snap........

 

Only Brady knows that. Likely because they steal the other teams signals.

Edited November 2, 2015 by peterpan

[todd]

Wade Phillips is a heckuva D-coordinator. I remember one week when he was here (must have been the 90s), we lost a bunch of LBs. In one week he switched the team from 3-4 to 4-3 and we won the game - and dominated. Impressive as hell.

[GunnerBill]

Wade Phillips is a heckuva D-coordinator. I remember one week when he was here (must have been the 90s), we lost a bunch of LBs. In one week he switched the team from 3-4 to 4-3 and we won the game - and dominated. Impressive as hell.

 

I went to an audience with him in London on draft night a couple of years ago (when he was out of football at the time we hired Schwartz). His explanations of the fundamentals of his defense were genuinely fascinating and it is so simplistic you came away with a really good impression of how he gets his message across to this players because he is a natural communicator with the ability to express himself in simple language.

 

He also said (in answer to the questions I asked) that he loved working for Marv and that he would he would have come back to Buffalo if they had reached out to him when Pettine quit.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

They are not rushing from rushing positions though. They are in tight trying to play the run. It isn't as a simple as "how many people do you rush?" It is the whole scheme.

 

 

Exactly.

 

There have been A LOT of people apologizing for the Bills defense.

 

"You can't stop great QB's" they say.

 

Those takes were f*cking ridiculous.

 

These people act like what Seattle did the past two seasons happened a decade ago or something.

 

You can shut down a a great QB.

 

The Bills have the personnel to play as well as Denver defensively but their HC is boxing them into his system....which they aren't well suited to execute.....and not even trying to adapt it to fit his personnel better.

 

What is scary is that he seems determined to keep running his D until they understand it.......and they are fighting it and struggling to learn it because they are not a smart group.

 

Even if he finally gets them on the same page as him next year......this system will not bring out the best in the front 7.

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

I do miss the Dick LeBeau, Wade Phillips and Shwartz Defenses. They all made the most of who we had and not what they thought we should do? I believe LeBeau was our best Defensive Coordinator. I'm in shock at how quickly Rex made this D regress. Hopefully they can pull it together in time for a big run.

[MRW]

Wade Phillips is a heckuva D-coordinator. I remember one week when he was here (must have been the 90s), we lost a bunch of LBs. In one week he switched the team from 3-4 to 4-3 and we won the game - and dominated. Impressive as hell.

 

Hard to believe that he was out of the NFL for a year when he was actively looking for a job.

[Boatdrinks]

 

 

Exactly.

 

There have been A LOT of people apologizing for the Bills defense.

 

"You can't stop great QB's" they say.

 

Those takes were f*cking ridiculous.

 

These people act like what Seattle did the past two seasons happened a decade ago or something.

 

You can shut down a a great QB.

 

The Bills have the personnel to play as well as Denver defensively but their HC is boxing them into his system....which they aren't well suited to execute.....and not even trying to adapt it to fit his personnel better.

 

What is scary is that he seems determined to keep running his D until they understand it.......and they are fighting it and struggling to learn it because they are not a smart group.

 

Even if he finally gets them on the same page as him next year......this system will not bring out the best in the front 7.

So, the Bills players are just not suited to play Ryan's Defense. And on top of that, well they just aren' t very smart. They're fighting what they are being asked to do, because, you know, they just don't get it . They can't be expected to play to their potential , really they never will in a different system. It doesn't suit them.

Now that sounds like a lot of apologizing for the Bills defense. And it is F*#!ng ridiculous.

They're playing football, not mapping the human genome. Not memorizing the periodic table. These are pros. Whip the guy in front of you and make plays. All these excuses about this system and that system , if these players are so talented, is really selling them short.

[NOVABillsFan]

Defenses look good until they face the Patriots

[BADOLBILZ]

So, the Bills players are just not suited to play Ryan's Defense. And on top of that, well they just aren' t very smart. They're fighting what they are being asked to do, because, you know, they just don't get it . They can't be expected to play to their potential , really they never will in a different system. It doesn't suit them.

Now that sounds like a lot of apologizing for the Bills defense. And it is F*#!ng ridiculous.

They're playing football, not mapping the human genome. Not memorizing the periodic table. These are pros. Whip the guy in front of you and make plays. All these excuses about this system and that system , if these players are so talented, is really selling them short.

 

They'd like to whip the guy in front of them but that's not Rex's D.

 

The big guys on this D are supposed to tie up blockers to free the LB's to make plays.

 

The Bills don't have those kind of LB's.

 

These are downhill guys being asked to go sideline to sideline.

 

Schwartz D dared teams to run between those gaps and those guys excelled at filling them.

 

Additionally, when Rex D has been good it always featured heady veteran safeties.

 

Not surprisingly, teams have exploited confusion by young, uninstinctive players like Rambo and Duke.

 

The players aren't a good fit for what Rex wants to do. Systems matter A LOT.

[Boatdrinks]

 

They'd like to whip the guy in front of them but that's not Rex's D.

 

The big guys on this D are supposed to tie up blockers to free the LB's to make plays.

 

The Bills don't have those kind of LB's.

 

These are downhill guys being asked to go sideline to sideline.

 

Schwartz D dared teams to run between those gaps and those guys excelled at filling them.

 

Additionally, when Rex D has been good it always featured heady veteran safeties.

 

Not surprisingly, teams have exploited confusion by young, uninstinctive players like Rambo and Duke.

 

The players aren't a good fit for what Rex wants to do. Systems matter A LOT.

I think you are oversimplifying this. I highly doubt our DLs are told on 3 rd and 7 to tie up blockers. They are rushing the passer. I also don't see them running sideline to sideline . You say they are being told to tie up blockers to free up the LBs to make plays. Then you imply the Bills don't have good LBs. Bradham and Brown were pretty darn good last year , no? Now we are to think they just aren't good? If the DL was doing there job well, shouldn't those guys be free to make big plays? It should be easy if they aren't getting blockers on them, right? Aside from maybe where the DLs are lining up across from the OL ( inside or outside shoulder etc) I don't think it's all that different . It's still defense, and it ain't Wannstedt. It's not like they are asking a NT to play OLB. In preseason, most of these players raved about the defense , and how many more plays they would be able to make in Rex's D. How do you know what they are being coached to do , anyway.? Do you sit in on the meetings? Everyone has some magic bullet theory on what is wrong. Did you know their Yds per play is actually better than last year? The Bengals and Pats were just too passive game plan wise, but other than those they've been pretty good. Just not getting the sack numbers. Going into Sunday, the Jets # 1 ranked D only had 2 more sacks than the Bills D on the year. I still question the players more than coaches

[BADOLBILZ]

I think you are oversimplifying this. I highly doubt our DLs are told on 3 rd and 7 to tie up blockers. They are rushing the passer. I also don't see them running sideline to sideline . You say they are being told to tie up blockers to free up the LBs to make plays. Then you imply the Bills don't have good LBs. Bradham and Brown were pretty darn good last year , no? Now we are to think they just aren't good? If the DL was doing there job well, shouldn't those guys be free to make big plays? It should be easy if they aren't getting blockers on them, right? Aside from maybe where the DLs are lining up across from the OL ( inside or outside shoulder etc) I don't think it's all that different . It's still defense, and it ain't Wannstedt. It's not like they are asking a NT to play OLB. In preseason, most of these players raved about the defense , and how many more plays they would be able to make in Rex's D. How do you know what they are being coached to do , anyway.? Do you sit in on the meetings? Everyone has some magic bullet theory on what is wrong. Did you know their Yds per play is actually better than last year? The Bengals and Pats were just too passive game plan wise, but other than those they've been pretty good. Just not getting the sack numbers. Going into Sunday, the Jets # 1 ranked D only had 2 more sacks than the Bills D on the year. I still question the players more than coaches

 

I kinda' addressed most of this in the post you are responding too.

 

Rex's D is a run-defense first attack. Schwartz was about getting to the QB and funneling all of the run game to one area.

 

Rex D requires smart, disciplined players to succeed. Schwartz D mostly just requires physical talent to succeed.

 

It's no surprise that Rex has had better defenses than Schwartz most of the time. But rarely do you assemble defenses with this kind of athletic ability.

 

Rex needs corners that can blanket receivers so that he can congest the middle by keeping the majority of the defense inside.

 

Congestion naturally shuts down the run game......but it also simplifies pass blocking responsibilities by keeping OL splits tight.

 

The Bills front 4 is a penetrating group and playing them tight and starting them from stand-up positions is not allowing them to maximize their ability.

 

The DL IS actually doing what they are being asked to do, for the most part, though. As are the corners.

 

The poor results are mostly due to poor LB and safety play.

 

Preston Brown is a nice MLB but he's not a sideline to sideline type.

 

Bradham really struggled in Pettine's system, which had a lot of elements of what Rex is trying to do, and he's struggled and looked confused A LOT.

 

You saw what happens to his game when he has to get to the sideline to make a play in the fatal blow of the Giants game.

 

This D is supposed to cause confusion by flooding passing lanes with unexpected defenders and sending untouched blitzers but mostly they have just been confused themselves.

 

And they are a veteran group.

 

But up front, their games do not fit a 2 gap system nearly as well as a penetrating one and like I've said.......the Bills have not placed a lot of emphasis on acquiring smart players.

 

Lot's of physical talent. A simple system.....like what they ran last year or Seattle's D......fits them better.

[GunnerBill]

 

They'd like to whip the guy in front of them but that's not Rex's D.

 

The big guys on this D are supposed to tie up blockers to free the LB's to make plays.

 

The Bills don't have those kind of LB's.

 

These are downhill guys being asked to go sideline to sideline.

 

Schwartz D dared teams to run between those gaps and those guys excelled at filling them.

 

Additionally, when Rex D has been good it always featured heady veteran safeties.

 

Not surprisingly, teams have exploited confusion by young, uninstinctive players like Rambo and Duke.

 

The players aren't a good fit for what Rex wants to do. Systems matter A LOT.

 

Just on the linebackers - I agree and what I saw from the stands at Wembley - they are being asked to diagnose their own coverage responsibilities at the line a lot. It isn't working they are having a horrible time in coverage but it is not really on them. The Jennings TD against the Giants was another example. Bradham got there late and missed a tackle - but the error as Rex admitted was in diagnosing the play - Jennings should not have been Bradham's man.