K-9 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I would argue that a QB that doesn't have full command of the on-field situation with free reign to check in and out of plays, isn't a true quarterback. I understand why coaches are reluctant with a more inexperienced player, but until a QB can do those things, he hasn't arrived at the position. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I would argue that a QB that doesn't have full command of the on-field situation with free reign to check in and out of plays, isn't a true quarterback. I understand why coaches are reluctant with a more inexperienced player, but until a QB can do those things, he hasn't arrived at the position. GO BILLS!!! To that end is that a coach issue or a player issue? It is a little chicken and egg. Is the player capable of it but not authorized by the coaches or is the player not capable of it because he doesn't have full command of the offense? That is one of those things that we do not know the answer to. It is probably a little of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 To that end is that a coach issue or a player issue? It is a little chicken and egg. Is the player capable of it but not authorized by the coaches or is the player not capable of it because he doesn't have full command of the offense? That is one of those things that we do not know the answer to. It is probably a little of both. I'm not concerned with whose issue it is, the player's or the coach's. The reality is, until a QB is doing those things on the field, he is limited as a QB, regardless. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I would argue that a QB that doesn't have full command of the on-field situation with free reign to check in and out of plays, isn't a true quarterback. I understand why coaches are reluctant with a more inexperienced player, but until a QB can do those things, he hasn't arrived at the position. GO BILLS!!! Always blew my mind when the Titans had VY and he couldnt make a check, or even call a timeout if needed I'm not concerned with whose issue it is, the player's or the coach's. The reality is, until a QB is doing those things on the field, he is limited as a QB, regardless. GO BILLS!!! I'm not even sure the extent but he sure wasn't allowed to rush to the line during the hurry up and others mentioned no checks. It's an interesting topic if someone with access wanted to pursue it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Always blew my mind when the Titans had VY and he couldnt make a check, or even call a timeout if needed I'm not even sure the extent but he sure wasn't allowed to rush to the line during the hurry up and others mentioned no checks. It's an interesting topic if someone with access wanted to pursue it The two minute offense at the end of the first half was, and this is not hyperbole, the worst example of a two minute package that I can remember. It was beyond FUBAR; it was an OC looking completely out of his depth in a critical situation. I'm not too critical of TT's seemingly less than urgent demeanor. It's more important to get everyone set and on the same page than simply rushing a play. Usually, there is more time on the clock than we fans realize. We may be having palpitations, but I don't want my QB having them. I was more concerned about the lackadaisical demeanor of our OLmen in that situation. They have to hurry up even more than the QB does. Where was their urgency? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane nelson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Did he committed 17 penalties that wiped two TD's? Did he he have any unsportsmanlike penalties giving the Giants any first downs? Did he have the ball ripped out of his hands twice by a more physical player? He has had 4 starts this year has 8 TDs and 4 pick. 2 picks were deflected balls and one was ripped out of the receivers arms. His QB rating is 104. This team has discipline and coaching issues much greater than QB ones. At this stage lets hope TT can keep up his performance the performance of the players and coach around him improve dramatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 I'm not concerned with whose issue it is, the player's or the coach's. The reality is, until a QB is doing those things on the field, he is limited as a QB, regardless. GO BILLS!!! That's my exact point though. No one is denying that a QB needs to be doing that. The question remains is he not doing it because the coaches won't let him or because he isn't capable of it? Those are totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Did he committed 17 penalties that wiped two TD's? Did he he have any unsportsmanlike penalties giving the Giants any first downs? Did he have the ball ripped out of his hands twice by a more physical player? He has had 4 starts this year has 8 TDs and 4 pick. 2 picks were deflected balls and one was ripped out of the receivers arms. His QB rating is 104. This team has discipline and coaching issues much greater than QB ones. At this stage lets hope TT can keep up his performance the performance of the players and coach around him improve dramatically ding ding ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Did he committed 17 penalties that wiped two TD's? Did he he have any unsportsmanlike penalties giving the Giants any first downs? Did he have the ball ripped out of his hands twice by a more physical player? He has had 4 starts this year has 8 TDs and 4 pick. 2 picks were deflected balls and one was ripped out of the receivers arms. His QB rating is 104. This team has discipline and coaching issues much greater than QB ones. At this stage lets hope TT can keep up his performance the performance of the players and coach around him improve dramatically Oh, you mean excuses? Hmmm...I remember not long ago that people were very quick to disregard excuses when judging a young quarterback...I guess this time it's different though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Cease Fires Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Oh, you mean excuses? Hmmm...I remember not long ago that people were very quick to disregard excuses when judging a young quarterback...I guess this time it's different though, right? Why do people keep bringing this up? As if all the people who are defending TT are the same people who bashed EJ. It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Oh, you mean excuses? Hmmm...I remember not long ago that people were very quick to disregard excuses when judging a young quarterback...I guess this time it's different though, right? What about that is an excuse? Those are all facts. The Bills are on pace to break the single season penalty record by 40%. In terms of "judging young QBs" they are not all the same. Tyrod's 1st 4 games have been better than the best 4 games that EJ played in his career. You don't judge someone on how many starts they have but rather in how they performed in those starts. That's the dumbest argument yet. Should Blaine Gabbert have been given as long to be judged as Luck? Edited October 5, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) What about that is an excuse? Those are all facts. The Bills are on pace to break the single season penalty record by 40%. In terms of "judging young QBs" they are not all the same. Tyrod's 1st 4 games have been better than the best 4 games that EJ played in his career. You don't judge someone on how many starts they have but rather in how they performed in those starts. That's the dumbest argument yet. Should Blaine Gabbert have been given as long to be judged as Luck? Tyrod is the QB and he deserves his opportunity to play this entire season, but people are using excuses as if there's a fear that they need to justify this guy's every move. We need to just let it play out. On the one side, the hyper analytical nature of everything is annoying, and on the other side of the spectrum, the excuse makers, are just as bad. Oh, and the bold is literally not true at all -- half of his games are losses. The sooner your man crush tempers a bit, the easier it will be to follow your points. Edited October 5, 2015 by fridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Tyrod is the QB and he deserves his opportunity to play this entire season, but people are using excuses as if there's a fear that they need to justify this guy's every move. We need to just let it play out. On the one side, the hyper analytical nature of everything is annoying, and on the other side of the spectrum, the excuse makers, are just as bad. Oh, and the bold is literally not true at all -- half of his games are losses. The sooner your man crush tempers a bit, the easier it will be to follow your points. Losses is a TEAM stat Look at their actual performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The hypocrisy of these guys who are saying to give Tyrod time, when they brought out the pitchforks immediately with the last guy. We're all messed up as a fan base because we don't know what it's like to groom a QB and make them great. After sitting on the bench for a few years, Aaron Rogers went 2-3 to start his first season and I'm sure there's some crazies who wanted to move on. I genuinely want to give Tyrod a full season and he wasn't my favorite out of the preseason. You can't just quit on your quarterback. Nothing hypocritical at all. Whether it was coaching, just not ready, or whatever, the last guy **** the bed when he was on the field. If he even looked a fraction as good as TT has in his 1st 4 games, there wouldn't have been a need to bring TT in, and the vast majority of the fanbase would've been happy to see him on the field. Just the facts Jack, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Losses is a TEAM stat Look at their actual performance The number one trait I want for my Quarterback is a winner. You want to look at stats? I don't know what do I look at here? He looked good in the wins, and bad in the losses. Tyrod had 38 yards at half time yesterday, and went something like 9 straight 3-and-outs in the 2nd and 3rd quarter against the Patriots. I want to give Taylor more time before I go anywhere near as goo-goo-ga-ga as some of you swooners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The number one trait I want for my Quarterback is a winner. You want to look at stats? I don't know what do I look at here? He looked good in the wins, and bad in the losses. Tyrod had 38 yards at half time yesterday, and went something like 9 straight 3-and-outs in the 2nd and 3rd quarter against the Patriots. I want to give Taylor more time before I go anywhere near as goo-goo-ga-ga as some of you swooners. That is a extremely narrow minded (its actually mindless) view of the situation Wins and Losses are not regulated to one position on the field......and you should know that. Its great to say "I want m QB to be a winner" - Blockers have to block - Defense has to stop the opposing offense - Receivers have to catch and fight for the ball (and not have it stripped away from them) Its just not as cut and dry and you are making it out to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Nothing hypocritical at all. Whether it was coaching, just not ready, or whatever, the last guy **** the bed when he was on the field. If he even looked a fraction as good as TT has in his 1st 4 games, there wouldn't have been a need to bring TT in, and the vast majority of the fanbase would've been happy to see him on the field. Just the facts Jack, it is what it is. Those actually aren't facts, they're literally your opinion. That is a extremely narrow minded (its actually mindless) view of the situation Wins and Losses are not regulated to one position on the field......and you should know that. Its great to say "I want m QB to be a winner" - Blockers have to block - Defense has to stop the opposing offense - Receivers have to catch and fight for the ball (and not have it stripped away from them) Its just not as cut and dry and you are making it out to be I will continue to mindlessly look at W and L for QBs. Thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Tyrod is the QB and he deserves his opportunity to play this entire season, but people are using excuses as if there's a fear that they need to justify this guy's every move. We need to just let it play out. On the one side, the hyper analytical nature of everything is annoying, and on the other side of the spectrum, the excuse makers, are just as bad. Oh, and the bold is literally not true at all -- half of his games are losses. The sooner your man crush tempers a bit, the easier it will be to follow your points. Not a man crush at all but I probably view the Bills as objectively as just about anyone (good and bad). His performance in 4 games is as good of play at the QB position that we have had in over a decade. He's on pace to challenge the franchise records for yards, TDs and completion percentage in a single season. He hasn't been perfect by any stretch but through 4 career starts he is trending right there with any Bills QB's best season. To judge a QBs performance based on the team's record is absurd. The Bills gave up 470 passing yards in his first loss. They committed 17 penalties in his 2nd. Felix Hernandez has a bad win loss record but is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. Andrew Luck is 1-2 on the year and Ryan Fitzpatrick is 3-1. Is Fitzpatrick the better QB of that's all that matters? When analyzing a players performance you have to analyze the players performance and not that of everyone around them. For example Ronald Darby was great yesterday do we have to say that he was bad because the team lost? If you want to say that Taylor has been bad, go for it but the stats say otherwise. He has even been a little unlucky or they would look even better. While he hasn't been perfect the QB play has been better than anyone here projected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those actually aren't facts, they're literally your opinion. Look at the bright side. Someday, somehow, someway, your boy will get another chance. Then again, that's also my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Those actually aren't facts, they're literally your opinion. I will continue to mindlessly look at W and L for QBs. Thanks though. Got it, so Fitzpatrick is better than Andrew Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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