OCinBuffalo Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) I have Rodgers in fantasy. In PFF's defense(slight defense), I was laughing because Rodgers got 30+ "passing" yards...for throwing a shovel pass. This happened over and over. On one, the ball was receieved 2 yards past the LOS, and then run for 25. That's a point right there. But, yeah, from an analytics standpoint, they have to correct for effectiveness. I agree that one shovel pass, that gains 30 yards, shouldn't be treated the same as a perfect 30 yard out that is dropped into the bucket between the CB and S. Their "context" argument is accurate, however, it's accuracy also means they need to put their own scoring system in context as well. One shovel/short pass isn't a big deal, but, 15 of them, executed perfectly, requires the QB to not only be effective, BUT, also requires him to be smart enough to take what the D keeps giving them, and, also be feared for what he can do on long passes. That is also context. Edited September 29, 2015 by OCinBuffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Degree of difficulty? How the hell would they know? Isn't being able to find "easy throws" a good thing? I believe that's called, reading defenses. This exactly...Brady and Manning throw almost exclusively short passes...Finding the short read, and delivering the pass accurately takes a great amount of skill...Particularly the reading part, reading the defense at the line, reading defenders after the snap. If short passes were that easy, why can't most QBs run them that effectively? It's nonsense, effective QB play is effective QB play. Edited September 29, 2015 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 How many people on this board wouldn't give their left #$$#%$^ for Rodgers as our QB which would make us a potential SB threat for the next 6 years? I love TT, and have such deep hopes with experience he turns into our real franchise guy. It's absolutely possible with experience, but Rodgers. He is the best athlete in the league. Forget about Watt. Rodgers is by far the best!!!!! This is why i take little stock in power rankings, some of these stats, etc. My eyes tell me he is the best. I hate brady, but respect him, and Peyton is at his sunset this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Don't be fooled by his 5 TD, no int, 300 + yard night against a good defense... It was apparently a miserable performance. PFF has graded him a -.8 for that game. The facts have spoken. Yes, I spelled his name wrong. It's not A-aron is it (Key&Peele) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 There will never be a metric that accurately gauges a QB's performance. There are just too many variables involved. In the past we've pointed out how silly QBR is, and that's supposed to be an improved model. Ironically, even with all the new sports metrics and analytics out today, the old tried-and-true QB rating may still be the best measuring stick. There sill isn't a metric that takes pre-snap reads into account. If a QB recognizes a hole in a defensive formation, audibles to a draw play, and that draw play results in a easy 15-yd TD run up the middle -- how does it effect his rating? It doesn't, and although the QB didn't run the ball, he played a vital part in scoring points. It's why the "eye test" will always reign supreme, although that depends greatly on how well those eyes are honed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Check out Brady's numbers on that web site. He gets positive marks for beating the Colts, Bills and the Jags. Are you telling me that Brady's quick outs to Edelman (which he hardly ever drops) are worth more than Rodgers scrambling to buy time and throwing a perfect strike, with his favorite receiver out for the year? Are you telling me that the Colts, Bills and Jags ALL have better defenses than the Chiefs? I don't pretend to understand this grading stuff, but it sure seems arbitrary and slanted toward somebody's man crush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 @NFL "I mean, to me, it's like watching Jordan in his prime." http://on.nfl.com/1LOVHAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disinterested Observer Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Show me a nfl team,a college team,a cfl team or a high school team for that matter that would look at the game film after that game and say "well that was a sub-par performance from our q.b.". Rodgers went out there and took what the defense gave him. Sounds to me he did his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) technically, you're wrong...it is possible, but i'm assuming that wasn't the case yesterday obviously a crazy hypothetical scenario, but say a guy goes 5/9, and all 5 completions are screen passes that go 70 yards each for touchdowns, and he throws another 4 horrible balls that are dropped by the defenders...would you say he had a great game? again, an absurd example of course, but the reasoning PFF gives for their grading system makes sense from seeing some highlights, it was his timing and accuracy that was incredible last night, not necessarily the degree of difficulty of the throws and him dropping them into tight windows, which i believe is what PFF measures I'm glad it makes sense to someone. Send them your resume'? If I have it right, they graded Seantrel Henderson very badly in the Bills-Pfish game and Suh well. Taylor had all year to throw most of the time, and Henderson, while not spectacular, held up his end, while Suh was pretty much a non-factor. IMHO all of PFF's grades are currently suspect as they don't seem to have a lot of correlation to playing effective, winning football - which is after all, the purpose of taking the field. This is Football, not f*@k!ng figure skating. There are no points awarded in the game for degree of difficulty or style. Edited September 30, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) "Context is crucial with everything in football, and if you believe we are saying that Rodgers had a poor game last night because his grade has a minus in front of it, then let me set your mind at ease; I do not think Rodgers played a poor, subpar game last night and neither does anybody else at Pro Football Focus. Rodgers did his job last night, but his job was executing simple throws, putting the ball quickly in the hands of receivers like Randall Cobb in favorable matchups on short throws, and allowing others to do the heavy lifting. But for a couple of poor plays, his overall grade would have matched the sort of grade that you would be expecting to see from him, but those poor plays, coupled with the relative ease of some of his scores mean his performance last night was far closer to average than it was to the fantastic performance the box score suggests. The context surrounding his grade is crucial. The greatness of Rodgers’ performance last night was in the intangibles. Recognizing the blitz, drawing the defense offsides, catching the Chiefs in bad situations and exploiting those scenarios with simple passes to open receivers. But you cannot — and we do not try to — quantify intangibles, or what comes pre-snap. Our system grades what can be graded — the execution of the play post-snap — and in that regard Rodgers did not stand out in the same way that his statistics did." If you are supporting them then you apparently agree that his performance was below average. Not below average for Rodgers, below average for an NFL QB. How anyone thinks that they can support and defend that position boggles my mind. If your analytics tell you that was an average NFL QB performance then your analytics are crap. Never mind...I see further down that you and I are speaking the same language. Didn't they give TT a grade of 0.3 this week or something when he made no big mistakes and a ton of strong plays as well as results as well as stats? TT>>>>>>AR Edited September 30, 2015 by Beerball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Rodgers had a fumble, which displayed poor pocket management, with 8:39 remaining in the second quarter. That play earned a negative grade. Ummm..... http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-moving-around-is-its-own-kind-of-highligh-1733573909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Rodgers had a fumble, which displayed poor pocket management, with 8:39 remaining in the second quarter. That play earned a negative grade. Ummm..... http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-moving-around-is-its-own-kind-of-highligh-1733573909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Didn't PFF give suh a very high score against the bills? The guy seemed invisible to me I saw Suh triple teamed more than one. That earns you a positive grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Didn't they give TT a grade of 0.3 this week or something when he made no big mistakes and a ton of strong plays as well as results as well as stats? Tyrod also edged Aaron out in ESPN's Total QBR (Tyrod had a league-high 95.3 in Week 3, Rodgers had a 78.0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I think what annoyed me the most about their grading system is the fact that they gave him zeros on the 3 TD's that were thrown outside the end zone where a player made a play to get the TD. How is that a zero? Your job is to accurately deliver the ball in a location where the receiving player can not only catch it, but to advance the ball and make a play. Most TD passes do not get caught in the end zone. So to give a QB a zero on plays where he perfectly delivered the ball (and he did on all 3 they gave him a zero for) on most of which looked very much like designed plays is absolutely absurd. I have an open mind to analyzing play outside the stat box, but this article was so stupid that its beyond comprehension. Brady and Rodgers are playing on another level right now and pretty much have their entire career. Rodgers game was not anything different than what he basically does every single week. And this whole thing about how it should have been a pick 6 on him and broke his streak...well all QB's have plays where the defender has a play on the ball and drops it. I would bet good money that Rodgers is in the top 2, if not #1 at doing that the least. Still, to go that many home games in a row without a pick, a few fortunate drops like that will have occurred. Its like in a major poker tournament...no matter how well you play, there is going to be at least a few times where you were behind late in the hand and got lucky to win a big pot. It happens, but that in no way makes his performance subpar on any level. PFF is dead to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 This exactly...Brady and Manning throw almost exclusively short passes...Finding the short read, and delivering the pass accurately takes a great amount of skill...Particularly the reading part, reading the defense at the line, reading defenders after the snap. If short passes were that easy, why can't most QBs run them that effectively? It's nonsense, effective QB play is effective QB play. Exactly. I could throw an accurate 10-20 yard pass standing on the street out front with my kids. No wonders PFF gives it an easy grade. But what Brady does is read coverage and deliver a tight accurate pass, hitting the receiver in stride, in less than 2 seconds with defensive players flying toward him. It looks like an easy completion but it's not - not when you do it that fast, accurately and consistently. We all know a quick pass is hard to defend. Yet PFF doesn't give any points of passes thrown quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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