The Wiz Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 But, are these points not entirely meaningless because there is a question on the validity of the starting PSI's due to referee incompetence? They measured the balls before the game and were within limits. Even if they are incompetent they are still measuring below NFL regulation not including environmental factors. They proved afterwards that the environmental factors should have had less of an affect on the ball than there was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 But, are these points not entirely meaningless because there is a question on the validity of the starting PSI's due to referee incompetence? To which referee incompetence are you referring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 So, the league allowed them to cheat and caught them red handed in what amounted to a "sting" operation? Even if that were the case, how exactly does that diminish the fact that Brady, Jastremski, and McNally were involved in violating league rules to gain an unfair competitive edge? Maybe what the league "wanted" was to check the balls during the game and find that they were well within what the league rules allow and, therefore, could say, "Look, we acted on information provided and found no evidence the Patriots were violating league rules." Playing along with the conspiracy theory .... If the league wanted to catch them in the act then it also would make sense that they would follow this up with a result-oriented work done by an advocate of the league. Did you read note 25 on page 46? The report concluded that "prior to the game, there was no plan to check the air pressure of the balls at halftime or any other time during the game. There was no 'sting' operation, no plan for a 'sting' operation and no discussion of a 'sting' operation." Even if you don't want to believe the report's conclusion, you believe that this "sting" angle indicates that the league was acting with the purpose of having Brady publicly denounced as a cheater? You stated that the league "got what they wanted" when the report concluded that Brady was aware of rule violations, and you're pointing to this characterization of the league's actions as a "sting" as an indication that the league wanted the report to conclude that Brady cheated, correct? So, in other words, the story would go something like this: the Colts tipped off the league that the Patriots may be violating a rule, the league decided that they wanted to (again, for reasons that have not been articulated) have Brady publicly denounced as a cheater, so they did not inform the Patriots of the Colts's unfounded suspicions that they may be deflating footballs, instead hoping that the Patriots in fact were deflating footballs and that they would be able to catch them in the act, and then be able to publicly demonstrate that Brady was a cheater. Thus, when the report concluded that Brady was aware of rule violations, the league "got what they wanted." Is that correct? Remember, these are Yee's words not mine. As far as I what I believe. His opinion has equal weight to the opinions offered in Wells' report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Playing along with the conspiracy theory .... If the league wanted to catch them in the act then it also would make sense that they would follow this up with a result-oriented work done by an advocate of the league. Remember, these are Yee's words not mine. As far as I what I believe. His opinion has equal weight to the opinions offered in Wells' report. Brady's hired agents' and representatives' excuses have equal weight to the findings of an independent investigation into alleged wrongdoing? You're a sucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 To which referee incompetence are you referring? That they were only capable of measuring 4 of the Colts balls. Brady's hired agents' and representatives' excuses have equal weight to the findings of an independent investigation into alleged wrongdoing? You're a sucker. The point of his lawyer is it wasn't an independent study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The point of his lawyer is it wasn't an independent study Which is absurd -- and made by a man paid by Brady to make him look good. If you give his opinion equal weight to that of Wells, you're a sucker. That's his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbillsfan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 NFL just awarded the 2016 Super Bowl victory to the Patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 That they were only capable of measuring 4 of the Colts balls. The point of his lawyer is it wasn't an independent study What would be the league's motive in tarnishing the reputation of its most high profile team and most marketable player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 What would be the league's motive in tarnishing the reputation of its most high profile team and most marketable player?There is none. That's what is so amazing about this whole thing. What's more is Brady didn't have to do this. He's one of the best ever. Why even bother? It's sad really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 There is none. That's what is so amazing about this whole thing. What's more is Brady didn't have to do this. He's one of the best ever. Why even bother? It's sad really Honestly I can see why to an athlete its not a big deal. They try to cut corners all the time. He feels he wants to tweak them to where he wants, and the league's not going to dictate where that is. But the reality is that he got caught and he lied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Costas on NBC Nightly News again tonight, completely back pedaling. Now it's not "gamesmanship " it's cheating. Thinks Brady will be suspended for at least on game. He is still a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) The most interesting thing will be Bradys actual statement. Will he toe the party line of Kraft and his lawyer and attack the accuser? Or the opposite and issue a full apology? My bet he'll try to find somewhere in the middle. Say he told the guys to let some air out, but only because he thought they felt a little over inflated. That he never intended to circumvent the rule. Only trying to get them to where they felt right. And the little perks he gave the guys weren't for helping him break any rules, but only to reward them when they got them to the levels he felt most comfortable with. "I know now i should have been a lot more careful. And mostly I want to say how sorry I am that my actions have in any way reflected poorly on Mr. Kraft, Coach Bellicheck, and the Patriots organization as a whole. They deserve a lot better from me. As do the our fans, the greatest in the world. From this point I can only try my utmost best to learn from this, and become a better person as a result". Edited May 7, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The most interesting thing will be Bradys actual statement. Will he toe the party line of Kraft and his lawyer and attack the accuser? Or the opposite and issue a full apology? My bet he'll try to find somewhere in the middle. Say he told the guys to let some air out, but only because he thought they felt a little over inflated. That he never intended to circumvent the rule. Only trying to get them to where they felt right. And the little perks he gave the guys weren't for helping him break any rules, but only to reward him when they got them to the levels he felt most comfortable with. "And mostly I want to say how sorry I am that my actions have in any way have reflected poorly on Mr. Kraft, Coach Bellicheck, and the Patriots organization as a whole. They deserve a lot better from me. As do the our fans, the greatest in the world. From this point I can only try my utmost best to learn from this, and become a better person as a result". I think you're right, but this just keeps getting worse. I'm thinking four game suspension no matter what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numark3 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 The standard of beyond a reasonable doubt is based exactly on what a "reasonable person" would conclude based on the evidence. This investigation is not nearly as in-depth as a criminal investigation would be, and commenting on how solid the evidence is from a criminal prosecution perspective is pointless. Haha could you imagine if you had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to an unreasonable person!!! There has been so many wrong things said about legal standards it's incredible. Mind hurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) IMO, Brady and Belichek should be suspended for a year. This hasn't been the first time they were caught cheating. While everyone wants to focus on just the AFC Championship game, I feel the Patriots would not have beaten the Ravens to even make it to the AFC Championship if they weren't using deflated footballs and using questionable tactics with ineligable receivers. The Ravens suspected the Patriots were using deflated footballs when they intercepted a Brady pass and tipped off the Colts to it. Bottom line, if the league does not come down hard on the Patriots for cheating for a second time, then their credibility will suffer even more especially with the handling of domestic abuse last year. Edited May 7, 2015 by Jerry Jabber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 This was linked on a link someone else posted (and maybe already posted here anyways) http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-wells-report-may-have-uncovered-the-tip-of-the-iceberg Another great read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronyAbounds Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I didn't want to wade thru 43 pages to see if this has been said already. I listen to Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan all the time. They give pretty good knowledgeable opinions, their take on this is that it is a non issue. Every QB sets the inflation amount prior to game within league guidelines. Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime. Even the Colts had 4 balls under inflated. Nothing to see here, move along. Explain then why McNally took a detour to a bathroom for 90 seconds, using a non-existent urinal (in other words he clearly lied about the purpose of his ducking into that room). Also, teams DO NOT typically make adjustments once the balls have been cleared by the referees. That is verboten. Explain why the change in pressure for the Pats' balls were materially greater than the change in pressure for the Colts' balls, and can not be accounted for by the weather. Anyone not interested in giving TB a handjob knows there was tampering with the Pats' balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) That they were only capable of measuring 4 of the Colts balls. How is that relevant to the question of whether weather conditions, alone, could have caused the drop in pressure? I was responding to the post by Fan in San Diego, where he stated that: "Cold rainy weather would have caused the balls to lose some inflation. Brady's psi is 12.5, Lucks is higher like 13 if I remember right. The balls sit outside during the game. They would have deflated some by halftime." The number of Colts footballs that were measured has nothing to do with the question of whether weather conditions could have caused the Patriots footballs to drop from 12.5 PSI to the air pressures measured at half time. The report concluded that "application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements."They could have measured zero Colts footballs and still reached this conclusion. It's just a question of physics, not a comparison of the Patriots footballs to the Colts footballs. Do you disagree? Edited May 7, 2015 by Go Kiko go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 This was linked on a link someone else posted (and maybe already posted here anyways) http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-wells-report-may-have-uncovered-the-tip-of-the-iceberg Another great read. It's a crappy analysis, though. Developed by someone who thinks they know what statistical analysis is, but obviously doesn't. Still, I like it...anything to get our resident Pats fans' panties in a bunch. I love the desperation oozing out of this thread. Honestly I can see why to an athlete its not a big deal. They try to cut corners all the time. He feels he wants to tweak them to where he wants, and the league's not going to dictate where that is. But the reality is that he got caught and he lied. In other words "They're my balls, and nobody's going to tell me how to play with them!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go Kiko go Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Remember, these are Yee's words not mine. Your words were that "the league got what they wanted in all of this." I'm asking how you concluded that the league wanted the report to conclude that Brady cheated. Do you believe that the league engaged in a sting operation hoping to catch Brady cheating and publicly reveal him as a cheater, or is there some other reason you believe that the league wanted this result? Edited May 7, 2015 by Go Kiko go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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