What Would It Take To Get Mettenberger?

[Kelly the Dog]

Is that why we were editing the practice film like a Britt McHenry video last year?

I wouldn't have said they were all going to look good in practice last year.

[FireChan]

I wouldn't have said they were all going to look good in practice last year.

Of course not. Today.

Edited May 1, 2015 by FireChan

[Kelly the Dog]

Of course not. Today.

Well last year he had Hackett and Marrone and was coming off injury plagued rookie season. We didn't know what he was going to be like. The first reports from OTAs were he was not looking good. This year we heard from players and coaches that he looks really good. I assume he is going to look good in practice the way Trent Edwards looked good in practice. But he sucked mostly in the games because he couldn't handle the rush and pressure. I assume that is what is going to happen to EJ too. But there is a chance he takes the next step.

[jr1]

he gives me Billy Volek vibes

[FireChan]

Well last year he had Hackett and Marrone and was coming off injury plagued rookie season. We didn't know what he was going to be like. The first reports from OTAs were he was not looking good. This year we heard from players and coaches that he looks really good. I assume he is going to look good in practice the way Trent Edwards looked good in practice. But he sucked mostly in the games because he couldn't handle the rush and pressure. I assume that is what is going to happen to EJ too. But there is a chance he takes the next step.

Nah, chemistry/game experience/worked on his stuff all summer. He was supposed to look at least the same in practice, not worse.

[Kelly the Dog]

Nah, chemistry/game experience/worked on his stuff all summer. He was supposed to look at least the same in practice, not worse.

You said "Today". Which is two weeks after Otas started. Last year at this time there were already reports he wasn't looking good and neither were Tuel and Thad.

[FireChan]

You said "Today". Which is two weeks after Otas started. Last year at this time there were already reports he wasn't looking good and neither were Tuel and Thad.

Figuratively today. Meant it in more of a "knowing how it all turned it out" sorta way. I thought EJ and TJ Graham had good OTA's.

 

Let's just say, I'm not holding my breath for EJ to look "pretty good" in practice.

[Kelly the Dog]

Figuratively today. Meant it in more of a "knowing how it all turned it out" sorta way. I thought EJ and TJ Graham had good OTA's.

 

Let's just say, I'm not holding my breath for EJ to look "pretty good" in practice.

That's not the point anyway. The point is you don't know how any of these guys - Mettenberger EJ Taylor - are going to be as far as potential good starters or franchise QBs until they play in real games. You have a decent idea or range for Cassel. And having a four man camp battle isn't likely to seperate EJ from Mettenberger from Taylor as far as which two to keep for regular season. They all have some experience. They all have some issues. They all have some talent. They all have some upside. They all are likely to fail.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Well it didn't take long for the Promo of old to show up. Nice job of moving the goalposts again. I didn't know that the criticism of Bills woeful job of addressing the QB began in 2013.

 

It's not just which player they may have missed in isolation, but how Whaley has approached the position.

 

But let's play your game first. From the 2013 QB class, Glennon seems to be the best of a bad lot. Of the 2014 class, it's way too early to tell, but considering that Buffalo didn't even swing, you can argue that almost any drafted QB from that class at this point is better than Jeff Tuel, Thad Lewis and Dennis Dixon. And that is the crux of the argument.

 

Imagine a scenario where a GM is interviewing for a job, and his prescription for a team's QB future was to go into camp with EJ Manuel, Jeff Tuel, Thad Lewis and Dennis Dixon. How many owners would hire that GM?

 

Restrospective analysis is very easy, because it's clear that Whaley's strategy, as pointed out by many last May, was risky and turned out horribly. That's why this is a discussion about strategy and not whiffing on a specific player. It goes back to putting much faith in Kevin Kolb, and then scrambling to fill in a gaping hole in late August. Same thing last year, when Lewis & Dixon flamed out as expected.

 

And that is what was maddening. The 2014 QB class was one of the better ones, so to not bring in another developmental QB, especially when the 3 Ms were there to be had in Rounds 4-5 was irresponsible.

 

Now compare that to this year, when it's apparent someone took Whaley aside and finally convinced him that his approach to the QB position has been woeful. That's why they took very hard runs at any available veteran and were willing to pay the price, and are still considering drafting another camp body. And that's why I cringe with all the Petty & Hundley talk, who on the basis where they will be drafted are far worse prospects than the guys who were drafted in those spots last year.

So basically you have no definitive answers. Just "what if's." As if finding a QB is like playing lottery scratchers.

So trading for Cassel says nothing about our QB situation, but picking the #2 Heisman winning QB in a notoriously weak draft means that Mettenburger sucks and will always suck. Got it.

You realize you're killing your own argument, don't you?

 

You claim Mettenberger is this budding franchise QB. Yet the Titans were offered a boatload of players and draft picks but still drafted Mariotta, a QB with plenty of question marks.

 

So a team that is supposedly set at QB, with holes all over it's roster, passes the chance to load up on picks and players to roll the dice on a QB that is no sure bet?? That's a ringing endorsement of Zach M.

 

You should consider giving up this crusade, find a corner and suck your thumb while hugging your Johnny Football action figure.

[GG]

So basically you have no definitive answers. Just "what if's." As if finding a QB is like playing lottery scratchers.

 

Which part of the 3 M's is hard to decipher?

 

Bills would have been better off with either Murray, McCarron or Mettenburg on their roster than either of the guys they drafted in those slots. Any of the 3 Ms would have been better than Tuel. Sanchize would have given you a better vet option than Lewis & Dixon, and definitely better than Orton.

 

But go ahead and defend the incompetent attention to the QB position until this year.

[Captain Hindsight]

he gives me Billy Volek vibes

 

Billy Volek would be a compliment

 

Watched two of ZM's games last night. He is erratic at best. Titans made the right call

[YoloinOhio]

he gives me Billy Volek vibes

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Which part of the 3 M's is hard to decipher?

 

Bills would have been better off with either Murray, McCarron or Mettenburg on their roster than either of the guys they drafted in those slots. Any of the 3 Ms would have been better than Tuel. Sanchize would have given you a better vet option than Lewis & Dixon, and definitely better than Orton.

 

But go ahead and defend the incompetent attention to the QB position until this year.

Why? Because you think they are all better QBs? Again, your complaints are all based on the Bills not doing what you want done, not actually making any tangible improvements.

 

You of all people should see the duplicity of your stance. If any of these QBs you mention were Bills we would all be calling them the B-word and looking for their replacements already.

Edited May 1, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[C.Biscuit97]

That is kind of my reasoning. I would rather add another option to the competition than a guy that is going to get cut anyways. If it doesn't work out you can always just cut Mettenberger (or trade him elsewhere).

But you can't do that in the NFL. 3 guys taking reps is pushing it. Now, you want to add another guy? IT just isn't feasible and won't hurt all the QBs.

 

I struggle to understand why people think ZM has more upside than EJ. You can say we reached on EJ, but he was still going to be picked in the 2nd or 3rd round. ZM played with 2 stud receivers at LSU, for a former NFL OC, and was a 6th rounder.

[DrDawkinstein]

But you can't do that in the NFL. 3 guys taking reps is pushing it. Now, you want to add another guy? IT just isn't feasible and won't hurt all the QBs.

 

I struggle to understand why people think ZM has more upside than EJ. You can say we reached on EJ, but he was still going to be picked in the 2nd or 3rd round. ZM played with 2 stud receivers at LSU, for a former NFL OC, and was a 6th rounder.

 

Agreed. I dont get why I keep seeing names like Mettenberger and Glennon being thrown around. Even McCarron and Murray. ALL of these guys are equal to, or have shown less, than EJ.

 

If they came here for free somehow (no trades), then maybe I could see taking a look at them. But to waste more resources on players who we basically already have is just insane.

 

It seems like more of a case of "Anyone but our guy" than it does good personnel scouting.

[Lurker]

 

It seems like more of a case of "Anyone but our guy" than it does good personnel scouting.

That's 15 years of frustration showing through....

[GG]

Why? Because you think they are all better QBs? Again, your complaints are all based on the Bills not doing what you want done, not actually making any tangible improvements.

 

You of all people should see the duplicity of your stance. If any of these QBs you mention were Bills we would all be calling them the B-word and looking for their replacements already.

 

My head is hurting from the annual explanation of why people are complaining about Bills' past personnel moves, and yet you still can't grasp the difference between criticizing a player's performance and front office's performance.

 

Any of the 3 Ms could still fall flat on their face. But we do know that the 3 Ms have greater NFL potential than Tuel, Lewis & Dixon. That's all that is, potential. But not taking either of the three, when they were available in mid to late rounds is reckless, if I'm going to be kind. Stupid, is probably the better word.

 

Last year's QB class was deepest in probably a decade. So when you have EJ, Tuel, Lewis & Dixon as the only bodies in camp, then not getting another developmental body in camp is idiotic. Whaley gets kudos for giving up a draft pick in a weak 2015 draft to get a generational talent (hopefully). He should get equal flack for totally ignoring a deep QB draft, especially looking at who they drafted in 4,5, & 6

[DrDawkinstein]

That's 15 years of frustration showing through....

 

For sure.

 

My head is hurting from the annual explanation of why people are complaining about Bills' past personnel moves, and yet you still can't grasp the difference between criticizing a player's performance and front office's performance.

 

Any of the 3 Ms could still fall flat on their face. But we do know that the 3 Ms have greater NFL potential than Tuel, Lewis & Dixon. That's all that is, potential. But not taking either of the three, when they were available in mid to late rounds is reckless, if I'm going to be kind. Stupid, is probably the better word.

 

Last year's QB class was deepest in probably a decade. So when you have EJ, Tuel, Lewis & Dixon as the only bodies in camp, then not getting another developmental body in camp is idiotic. Whaley gets kudos for giving up a draft pick in a weak 2015 draft to get a generational talent (hopefully). He should get equal flack for totally ignoring a deep QB draft, especially looking at who they drafted in 4,5, & 6

 

I hear ya, but 2nd and 3rd stringers really dont get that many reps or chances to develop. You're talking about shoring up our QB depth as if that wouldve helped our Starting QB situation at all. Im more worried about the starter than the talent level at #2, and #3.

Edited May 1, 2015 by DrDareustein

[Kirby Jackson]

But you can't do that in the NFL. 3 guys taking reps is pushing it. Now, you want to add another guy? IT just isn't feasible and won't hurt all the QBs.

 

I struggle to understand why people think ZM has more upside than EJ. You can say we reached on EJ, but he was still going to be picked in the 2nd or 3rd round. ZM played with 2 stud receivers at LSU, for a former NFL OC, and was a 6th rounder.

Seattle did it (pretty sure).

 

I gave my reasoning on ZM earlier. He was a huge reason for the success at LSU even with the stud playmakers. He played in a pro style offense and has the arm talent of a 1st round pick. He wasn't graded far from EJ coming out except for the injury. He went in the 6th because he had a torn ACL. He was going to go much earlier without that.

 

I am by no means saying that he is perfect but he is just as likely to turn into a franchise guy as EJ IMO. I've seen a lot of both of them and I think that ZM certainly has a better arm. He makes more plays and mistakes than EJ. If you look at their rookie seasons side by side Mettenberger averaged 34 more yards a game, had a higher TD %, higher completion %, higher rating and averaged 1.5 yards more per completion. I am not making my judgment based on the stats but if it isn't fair to judge EJ after 14 starts we shouldn't be judging ZM on his 6 or 7 that have been every bit as good.

[C.Biscuit97]

Seattle did it (pretty sure).

 

I gave my reasoning on ZM earlier. He was a huge reason for the success at LSU even with the stud playmakers. He played in a pro style offense and has the arm talent of a 1st round pick. He wasn't graded far from EJ coming out except for the injury. He went in the 6th because he had a torn ACL. He was going to go much earlier without that.

 

I am by no means saying that he is perfect but he is just as likely to turn into a franchise guy as EJ IMO. I've seen a lot of both of them and I think that ZM certainly has a better arm. He makes more plays and mistakes than EJ. If you look at their rookie seasons side by side Mettenberger averaged 34 more yards a game, had a higher TD %, higher completion %, higher rating and averaged 1.5 yards more per completion. I am not making my judgment based on the stats but if it isn't fair to judge EJ after 14 starts we shouldn't be judging ZM on his 6 or 7 that have been every bit as good.

I was never that impressed with ZM. Just seems like another immobile big guy.

 

And again, I'd rather be learning as rookie from Wisenhunt than Marrone.