Doc Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Is a player ever what his record says he is? That applies to teams not guys. Matt Ryan is a good QB and Ryan Lindley is not. 1 was in the playoffs and 1 was not. Not a good example KJ. Lindley was 0-2 in his 2 starts and the Cards made the playoffs in spite of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Is a player ever what his record says he is? That applies to teams not guys. Matt Ryan is a good QB and Ryan Lindley is not. 1 was in the playoffs and 1 was not. Kirby, it's funny how some pick and choose what numbers matter. for example, ZM had a 30.1 QBR and Manuel had a 42 QBR as a rookie. Manuel was a 1st round pick and ZM was a 6th rounder. Yet, people think ZM has more of an upside than Manuel. It's mind blowing. Â I'd agree that ZM with Cam Cameron had better coaching in college than EJ had his first 2 years in the pro. Hell, ZM might have had a better college receiving core than Manuel had his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Not a good example KJ. Lindley was 0-2 in his 2 starts and the Cards made the playoffs in spite of him. Oops, how about Drew Stanton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Kirby, it's funny how some pick and choose what numbers matter. for example, ZM had a 30.1 QBR and Manuel had a 42 QBR as a rookie. Manuel was a 1st round pick and ZM was a 6th rounder. Yet, people think ZM has more of an upside than Manuel. It's mind blowing.  I'd agree that ZM with Cam Cameron had better coaching in college than EJ had his first 2 years in the pro. Hell, ZM might have had a better college receiving core than Manuel had his rookie year. ZM was thought of as a borderline 1st rounder before blowing out his knee. EJ wasn't thought of as a sure fire 1st round pick by any stretch. They were similar prospects coming out. The same can be said for Glennon. I'm not saying that ZM or MG are the answer but I am not sure why we would write them off?  QBR is calculated by year only from what I've seen (2014: EJ 19.8, ZM, 30.1, MG 55.9).  Glennon so far: 19 games, 58.8% completion, 4,025 yards, 6.5 AVG, 29 TDs, 15 INT, 83.7 rating, EJ so far: 15 games, 58.6% completion, 2,810 yards, 6.43 AVG, 16 TDs, 12 INTs, 78.5 rating, Mettenberger so far: 7 games, 59.8% completion, 1,412 yards, 7.89 AVG, 8 TDs, 7 INTs, 83.4 rating  You said in another thread that it would be "crazy" to give a 5th for Glennon or Mettenberger. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178972-is-it-too-late-to-add-another-qb/?fromsearch=1 By that same logic you would have to jump at a 5th for EJ correct? He certainly hasn't been superior to either of them.  IMO, there are some young guys that have a chance based on their physical tools. All 3 of those guys fall in that boat but by no means do I think that they are sure things. I just find it odd that you could have SO much confidence in EJ but think that a 5th for the other 2 is crazy. It doesn't make any sense to me when they were similar prospects that have produced at least at the same level. Edited June 23, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Is a player ever what his record says he is? That applies to teams not guys. Matt Ryan is a good QB and Ryan Lindley is not. 1 was in the playoffs and 1 was not. I'm just referring to the usual smackdown Bill-Parcells saying when you want to put down a player. It just struck me funny when trying to argue an 0-6 QB is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 ZM was thought of as a borderline 1st rounder before blowing out his knee. EJ wasn't thought of as a sure fire 1st round pick by any stretch. They were similar prospects coming out. The same can be said for Glennon. I'm not saying that ZM or MG are the answer but I am not sure why we would write them off?  QBR is calculated by year only from what I've seen 2014: EJ 19.8, ZM, 30.1, MG 55.9).  Glennon so far: 19 games, 58.8% completion, 4,025 yards, 6.5 AVG, 29 TDs, 15 INT, 83.7 rating, EJ so far: 15 games, 58.6% completion, 2,810 yards, 6.43 AVG, 16 TDs, 12 INTs, 78.5 rating, Mettenberger so far: 7 games, 59.8% completion, 1,412 yards, 7.89 AVG, 8 TDs, 7 INTs, 83.4 rating  You said in another thread that it would be "crazy" to give a 5th for Glennon or Mettenberger. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/178972-is-it-too-late-to-add-another-qb/?fromsearch=1 By that same logic you would have to jump at a 5th for EJ correct? He certainly hasn't been superior to either of them.  IMO, there are some young guys that have a chance based on their physical tools. All 3 of those guys fall in that boat but by no means do I think that they are sure things. I just find it odd that you could have SO much confidence in EJ but think that a 5th for the other 2 is crazy. It doesn't make any sense to me when they were similar prospects that have produced at least at the same level. My confidence in EJ is that he is currently on the Bills. I feel he was developed by a crappy coaching staff. I believe he has the physical and mental tools to be a starting NFL qb. I believe if he can maximize these skills (and it's not a sure thing at all and has been a struggle for him) , his ceiling is higher than ZM or MG.  It's also simple math. I won't trade a 5th for EJ if he wasn't on the Bills. What have ZG or MG done to improve their draft status in the NFL? Why does there seem to be no market for them? TB or Tennessee would love to trade them if they got decent value. IMO, ZM has reached his ceiling. He had a NFL receiving core and NFL OC in college. He also has off the field concerns as well. MG is JAG IMO.  I will never flat out say a young qb won't make it (expect Manziel, he sucks). It's stupid. It takes time to develop them. But it's my opinion, that Manuel has more upside and I certainly won't give up draft picks for qbs that are available in every draft like ZM or MG. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Oops, how about Drew Stanton? Slightly, but he didn't play in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My confidence in EJ is that he is currently on the Bills. I feel he was developed by a crappy coaching staff. I believe he has the physical and mental tools to be a starting NFL qb. I believe if he can maximize these skills (and it's not a sure thing at all and has been a struggle for him) , his ceiling is higher than ZM or MG. Â It's also simple math. I won't trade a 5th for EJ if he wasn't on the Bills. What have ZG or MG done to improve their draft status in the NFL? Why does there seem to be no market for them? TB or Tennessee would love to trade them if they got decent value. IMO, ZM has reached his ceiling. He had a NFL receiving core and NFL OC in college. He also has off the field concerns as well. MG is JAG IMO. Â I will never flat out say a young qb won't make it (expect Manziel, he sucks). It's stupid. It takes time to develop them. But it's my opinion, that Manuel has more upside and I certainly won't give up draft picks for qbs that are available in every draft like ZM or MG. Just my opinion though. That is fair. I'm not really a fan of any of them but I think that any of them COULD be a franchise guy. They all have the physical tools but Glennon looks like Napolean Dynamite. Â I guess where I stand on the 5th is that I would probably trade it for any of them. The way that I look at it is I would deal a 5th for a guy that could become a franchise guy. They gave a 5th for Cassel with the hope of being a solid vet. Obviously I would rather just have a star QB but so would everyone. It takes a little luck to do that (or be awful in the right year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That is fair. I'm not really a fan of any of them but I think that any of them COULD be a franchise guy. They all have the physical tools but Glennon looks like Napolean Dynamite. Â I guess where I stand on the 5th is that I would probably trade it for any of them. The way that I look at it is I would deal a 5th for a guy that could become a franchise guy. They gave a 5th for Cassel with the hope of being a solid vet. Obviously I would rather just have a star QB but so would everyone. It takes a little luck to do that (or be awful in the right year). Haha. It's stupid but if Glennon looked better, fans would have a better impression of him. In terms of looking like a franchise qb, it's EJ, then ZM, and then MG far, far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Watching Mettenberger in the Pitt game, he looked competent and confident. EJ has looked that way in some games, too. Even Jeff Tuel lookes that way against KC, until... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 i would prefer glennon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Honestly, the bills can really use him. they have their bases covered when it comes to mediocre QBs. The bills would have to overpay for him (the Titans are unlikely to want to part with their #2 QB when they have a rookie starting who could potentially get injured with his style of play). The Bills dont have a use for him mainly because he's under-experienced with only 1 year in the league, so he cant replace Cassel's experience. He's not mobile, so he cant replace Tyrod. He's not gonna beat out EJ because EJ is the best guy we have and there is not enough data to prove Mettenberger is any better than EJ. So that leaves Matt Simms, who is unlikely to even make the roster. It wouldnt be worth the cost to trade for a camp arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan75 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25231060/ranking-the-best-backup-quarterback-situations-in-the-nfl  Mettenberger near the top of the list on the best backup QB's right now. Glennon on there too.  Eventually, if Mariota works out, Mettenberger might get a starting shot in another NFL city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25231060/ranking-the-best-backup-quarterback-situations-in-the-nfl  Mettenberger near the top of the list on the best backup QB's right now. Glennon on there too.  Eventually, if Mariota works out, Mettenberger might get a starting shot in another NFL city. Any list that has Sanchez ranked #1 should be immediately disregarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25231060/ranking-the-best-backup-quarterback-situations-in-the-nfl  Mettenberger near the top of the list on the best backup QB's right now. Glennon on there too.  Eventually, if Mariota works out, Mettenberger might get a starting shot in another NFL city. The Titans will parlay Mettenberger into a 2 or third rounder in a year or two. Matt Schaub comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 The Titans will parlay Mettenberger into a 2 or third rounder in a year or two. Matt Schaub comes to mind. I'd take that bet. Is ZM the new Kirk Cousins? A late rounder who never has done anything good of note in the NFL who everyone will pretend is a lot better that he is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I'd take that bet. Is ZM the new Kirk Cousins? A late rounder who never has done anything good of note in the NFL who everyone will pretend is a lot better that he is? ZM is a second rate Kirk Cousins, who is third rate. I actually like him a lot more than Cousins, who I always thought was weak. But the chances of Zima being a solid starter are rather low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 ZM is a second rate Kirk Cousins, who is third rate. Â I actually like him a lot more than Cousins, who I always thought was weak. But the chances of Zima being a solid starter are rather low. I mean he looks the part but I was never overly impressed him. Think about how good that cast was around him: ODB, Landry, Jetemy Hill. That's a NFL offense. plus, he seems really immature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 After the 2015 pre-season games, we will all wonder what it would take to trade for Ryan Nassib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 After the 2015 pre-season games, we will all wonder what it would take to trade for Ryan Nassib. Sure we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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