Uffalo Ills Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 As if we havent heard enough about #DeflateGate http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/01/watch-bill-nye-the-science-guy-settle-deflategate-once-and-for-all/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I'll take his word any day of the week. In terms of rubbing the football, the amount of rubbing you would have to do to change the air temperature inside the ball would probably equivalent to the amount of rubbing a female pornstar conducts throughout her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The company that makes the balls came out and said the only way for a ball to deflate that much in that amount of time is a pump needle. Case closed. Edited January 25, 2015 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The company that makes the balls came out and said the only way for a ball to deflate that much in that amount of time is a pump needle. Case closed. Not really a case closed. More like a case can easily be made from that. Case will be closed when someone goes down for it (I expect someone on the equipment staff to take the fall and then receive an unusually large severance package). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just meant the whole "Did the weather cause it?" case should be closed now. Nobody should be trying to use that as an excuse anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffalo Ills Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Weather could not cause a 2psi drop. That would mean that all of Aaron Rodger's balls would be inflated to only like 0.5psi, but instead, it's rumored that he has them overinflated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I just meant the whole "Did the weather cause it?" case should be closed now. Nobody should be trying to use that as an excuse anymore. They shouldn't have tried to use it in the first place. Pats* fans are dumb but the rest of the world studied science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 They shouldn't have tried to use it in the first place. Pats* fans are dumb but the rest of the world studied science More like willfully ignorant. Everyone has to fill up their car tires (or have someone do it for them) at some point. Considering I can go through a typical WNY winter and only lose 3-4 PSI along with normal wear and tear makes it blatant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizslafan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Here's an idea... The Patriots could have inflated the balls with heated air. Let's say it was at 120 Deg F air and the balls were inflated to 12.5 PSI with it shortly before they were inspected. The balls are insulators so you probably would not feel the heat trough the bladder and synthetic leather. In 2 hours the temp cools by 70 degrees F (Colts game temp was about 50 degrees F) and the pressure drops to 10.5PSI. I have not run the numbers but maybe not that far off - I have a mech engr degree but not as famous as Bill Nye! Belicheck could use the above procedure, never deflate the balls and probably follow the rules to the letter as he says. They could even have a chart that provides the starting air temp to get 10.5 PSI based on outdoor temperature. If they have some type of machine that inflates them could be realistic. If it is just a hand pump then not going to work. Yea I know crazy idea, but the Patriots are kinda crazy also.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Mythbusters. Put it on there, special edition. Case closed. Edited January 26, 2015 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimp 2 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Here's an idea... The Patriots could have inflated the balls with heated air. Let's say it was at 120 Deg F air and the balls were inflated to 12.5 PSI with it shortly before they were inspected. The balls are insulators so you probably would not feel the heat trough the bladder and synthetic leather. In 2 hours the temp cools by 70 degrees F (Colts game temp was about 50 degrees F) and the pressure drops to 10.5PSI. I have not run the numbers but maybe not that far off - I have a mech engr degree but not as famous as Bill Nye! Belicheck could use the above procedure, never deflate the balls and probably follow the rules to the letter as he says. They could even have a chart that provides the starting air temp to get 10.5 PSI based on outdoor temperature. If they have some type of machine that inflates them could be realistic. If it is just a hand pump then not going to work. Yea I know crazy idea, but the Patriots are kinda crazy also.. I bet that you're not far off. I wondered the fact of the heated air applied while inflating the footballs. Especially when Belicheat referenced following the rules to the letter...I bet there is no standard of the temperature of the air applied? Who would think to manipulate this? The Patriots, that's who...smh! I can hear him know, His interpretation yada yada yada...Cheat! If his assertion was true, why didn't the Colts footballs deflate at the same rate? Their football were weighed also and were in accordance with the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The company that makes the balls came out and said the only way for a ball to deflate that much in that amount of time is a pump needle. Case closed. Well, case closed as far as the NFL is concerned. ....Yet another scandal swept under the rug..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The sick part is that BB would be right about following the letter of the law if they used heated air. It's more tuck rule style tricky tack BS but it wouldn't be against the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff the Cat Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I bet that you're not far off. I wondered the fact of the heated air applied while inflating the footballs. Especially when Belicheat referenced following the rules to the letter...I bet there is no standard of the temperature of the air applied? Who would think to manipulate this? The Patriots, that's who...smh! I can hear him know, His interpretation yada yada yada...Cheat! If his assertion was true, why didn't the Colts footballs deflate at the same rate? Their football were weighed also and were in accordance with the rule. Very good point, that is the only way that the ball could lose 2psi in that amount of time other than a needle. Technically it would not be cheating, but if the intent was to have a deflated ball, it certainly goes against the spirit of the rule. Hard to prove the heated air and even harder to prove intent with heated air. Anyone here could do a simple experiment by inflating a balloon inside their "warm" house then put the balloon in their cold garage or refrigerator and watch how it decreases in size. etc etc. Edited January 26, 2015 by Buff the Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The Pats* are an all time great team. But this crap, plus the era they play in, makes all the GOAT talk goofy. Im cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm not sure if this has been posted in another thread, but this is clearly the most definitive piece regarding this issue of Tom Brady's balls. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=767092833380843&fref=nf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Here's an idea... The Patriots could have inflated the balls with heated air. Let's say it was at 120 Deg F air and the balls were inflated to 12.5 PSI with it shortly before they were inspected. The balls are insulators so you probably would not feel the heat trough the bladder and synthetic leather. In 2 hours the temp cools by 70 degrees F (Colts game temp was about 50 degrees F) and the pressure drops to 10.5PSI. I have not run the numbers but maybe not that far off - I have a mech engr degree but not as famous as Bill Nye! Belicheck could use the above procedure, never deflate the balls and probably follow the rules to the letter as he says. They could even have a chart that provides the starting air temp to get 10.5 PSI based on outdoor temperature. If they have some type of machine that inflates them could be realistic. If it is just a hand pump then not going to work. Yea I know crazy idea, but the Patriots are kinda crazy also.. Compressed air comes out of the nozzle extremely cold(due to technical math/science reasons). Even heated air would be reduced in temperature enough when focused through a small point to not effect the end result. Simple science experiment.....blow air onto your hand with an open mouth.....then do it through purced lips. The open mouth blowing is significantly warmer than purced lips. The narrower the hole, the colder the temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Compressed air comes out of the nozzle extremely cold(due to technical math/science reasons). Even heated air would be reduced in temperature enough when focused through a small point to not effect the end result. Simple science experiment.....blow air onto your hand with an open mouth.....then? do it through purced lips. The open mouth blowing is significantly warmer than purced lips. The narrower the hole, the colder the temperature. what? the air feels cooler because it expands as it comes out the nozzle, and subsequently cools. Think air conditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It appears that a team from Carnegie Mellon found out that this sort of deflation could happen. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/bill-nye-says-bill-belichick-made-no-sense/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Overlooked by the CMU folks (and Belichick, and others) was the reported ability of the Colts’ footballs to remain within the accepted range of 12.5 to 13.5 PSI after the same duration of exposure to the same elements and conditions. If, on average, the footballs tested at a starting PSI lost 1.8 pounds on average (i.e., 14.4 percent of their air pressure), footballs pumped even to the maximum of 13.5 PSI would have lost 1.94 PSI on average, taking them to 11.56, nearly a full bound below the minimum limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Compressed air comes out of the nozzle extremely cold(due to technical math/science reasons). Even heated air would be reduced in temperature enough when focused through a small point to not effect the end result. Simple science experiment.....blow air onto your hand with an open mouth.....then do it through purced lips. The open mouth blowing is significantly warmer than purced lips. The narrower the hole, the colder the temperature. You must have received an F in Science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devldog131 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The company that makes the balls came out and said the only way for a ball to deflate that much in that amount of time is a pump needle. Case closed. Does anybody have a link on this? I live in MA and would love to throw it in the faces of the patriots* fans I deal with on a constant basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 This article quotes a couple representatives for Wilson Sporting Goods. http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2015/01/thats_bs_-_wilson_doesnt_seem_to_buy_belichicks_sc.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It appears that a team from Carnegie Mellon found out that this sort of deflation could happen. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/bill-nye-says-bill-belichick-made-no-sense/ And they were unable to explain why the Colts' balls did not also similarly deflate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 how vigorously is Tom Brady rubbing his balls before the game? Belicheat said their tests show that "roughing up" the footballs cause them to inflate 1 psi? i find that hard to believe. not to mention you idiots were 2 psi under so i don't understand their argument. the NFL is dragging their feet because they don't want to interfere with their precious Super Bowl. i am hoping for a severe punishment. not just because the balls were deflated, but due to the fact that a) they lied about it and b) they have been caught cheating before. 1 yr suspension for Belicheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) You must have received an F in Science? No, I got an A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule%E2%80%93Thomson_effect the Joule–Thomson effect (also known as the Joule–Kelvin effect, Kelvin–Joule effect, or Joule–Thomson expansion) describes the temperature change of a gas or liquid when it is forced through a valve...... The method of expansion discussed in this article, in which a gas or liquid at pressure P1flows into a region of lower pressure P2 via a valve or porous plug under steady state conditions and without change in kinetic energy, is called the Joule–Thomson process. The region of lower pressure in this case is the football. what? the air feels is cooler because it expands as it comes out the nozzle, and subsequently cools. Think air conditioning. Pretty much right. The air expands into the football......and reduces in temperature as it does so. Edited January 26, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 No, I got an A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule%E2%80%93Thomson_effect the Joule–Thomson effect (also known as the Joule–Kelvin effect, Kelvin–Joule effect, or Joule–Thomson expansion) describes the temperature change of a gas or liquid when it is forced through a valve...... The method of expansion discussed in this article, in which a gas or liquid at pressure P1flows into a region of lower pressure P2 via a valve or porous plug under steady state conditions and without change in kinetic energy, is called the Joule–Thomson process. The region of lower pressure in this case is the football. Pretty much right. The air expands into the football......and reduces in temperature as it does so. Hmm. Joule-Thomson effect is not really going to apply to the inflation of a football. Btw, if you are thinking about the cold air coming out of one of those air dusters, the air is cold due to vaporization of the liquid in the can. Its not cold because of Joule-Thomson . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 So far the arguments are:1. The weather/atmosphere did it. The manufacturer of the football gave a statement saying there was no way for that much air to leave the football without putting it in a freezer or using a pump needle to remove it. 2. Tom Brady likes the ball at the minimum levels and Luck likes them at the max levels, so they both lost air but the Colts' balls were still in the allowed range because of a higher starting pressure. If true, Tom Brady certainly wouldn't be the only QB in the league to like the balls filled to the minimum levels, and he's definitely not the only QB to play games in cold weather. Are you trying to tell me that nobody ever noticed the balls being under the acceptable range in any of the cold weather games of the past few seasons? 3. The deflation was caused by the cold weather that particular day Then why did it also happen in the November Colts/Patriots game? And the Patriots/Ravens game? We have teams complaining on at least 3 separate occasions that the Patriots' balls were under inflated. We have statistics that show the Patriots fumbling(or rather not fumbling) at a highly abnormal rate compared to the rest of the league over the past 4 years We have statistics that show Brady's yards-per-attempt have been abnormal compared to other QBs for the past 4 years We have the fact that the Patriots were caught outright cheating in 2007 and punished by the league We have a Head Coach saying he's never heard of or talked about ball pressure with anyone in his career We have a 17th year QB claiming he's never once squeezed a football to check the air pressure Seems pretty obvious to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) Bellyache claimed he knew nothing about footballs..... or how Tom likes them handled. Has he been speaking of them since the PC? Edited January 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I hate the pats but dont u guys ever get tired of this topic? What was the score at halftime during deflate gate and what was the final score after the balls were all properly inflated. I get something was prob done to the balls but the pats actually played better with the properly inflated balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) nope. I'd ask similar...... Don't the EJ detractors ever get tired of the topic? as to the 2nd half.... in playoffs that's when teams usually pull away leaving the opponent in the dust. The Colts were out manned, they are back into the same old get a VG QB and let the rest of the team go lacking Edited January 26, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I hate the pats but dont u guys ever get tired of this topic? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizslafan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hmm. Joule-Thomson effect is not really going to apply to the inflation of a football. Btw, if you are thinking about the cold air coming out of one of those air dusters, the air is cold due to vaporization of the liquid in the can. Its not cold because of Joule-Thomson . You are correct - mostly. Air does cool when it expands. If you have a high pressure line and a gas is released it will cool, in some cases drastically. This type of system is used in many applications from swamp coolers in desert homes to cooling of IR systems in Military applications. The total pressure drop is what is important and how rapidly the pressure is released. When you are inflating the ball it is not expanding into the ball, it is being compressed. If you are inflating the ball to 13.5 PSI you only need a little more than this to move the air into the ball - not enough pressure drop to cause a temperature change in my opinion. You could design a simple machine to heat the air and manually pump it into the ball. Who knows what happened.. probably the Pats ball boy just let a little air out of the ball and got mixed up and forgot about ball #12. Fun to talk about tho.. I can't get enough of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 nope. I'd ask similar...... Don't the EJ detractors ever get tired of the topic? as to the 2nd half.... in playoffs that's when teams usually pull away leaving the opponent in the dust. The Colts were out manned, they are back into the same old get a VG QB and let the rest of the team go lacking I get tired of the EJ posts too. But im just saying this entire ball deflation debate probably had little impact on the game. The patriots were just worlds better than the colts and a few psi wouldnt have made a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 And they were unable to explain why the Colts' balls did not also similarly deflate. I've never seen anything that states as a fact that the colts footballs were tested, is there anything definitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I get tired of the EJ posts too. But im just saying this entire ball deflation debate probably had little impact on the game. The patriots were just worlds better than the colts and a few psi wouldnt have made a difference. correct the shrinkage had no impact other than it broke the rules. What I see here is a bunch of Bills fans having a bit of fun trashing their despised rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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