Tolstoy Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 My apologies if this has been said in another post, but the article linked below was just published in the NY Times today (Sunday, Jan. 18). Like most everyone else, I think the hiring of Ryan and Roman was an excellent move by the Bills. One thing I worry about is the "ground and pound" philosophy that Ryan and Roman want to bring. Does that approach win anymore? I hope that it does and could, but suspect that it is outdated by rule changes in the NFL. This NY Times article shows the statistics, all brought about by new rules meant to protect the QB and WR: 9 QB's had 30 or more touchdowns this year. NINE!!!!. Compare that to ZERO in 2002, and ONE in 2003, 2005, and 2006. As the article suggests, isn't a passing offense with an elite QB now a necessary (though not sufficient) condition for winning a championship? If so, why bother building a team for a running game, if you simply can't win a Superbowl with this mentality? Sure, we can be competitive, and make the playoffs, but we will ultimately be outscored by a team with a good defense and an high-octane passing offense. Witness the remaining teams in the playoffs. If all this is true, then the Bills and every other team should pull out all the stops to developing a high-octane passing offense. "Ground and pound" (at least the "ground" part) won't win anymore, and I am a bit worried that the Bills are setting themselves up for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 We don't have a QB good enough to build an offense that relies and is based on the vertical passing attack. When we do then I'm sure our offense will change accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 And yet the last three Super Bowls winners have been... A Giants team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ahmad Bradshaw along with a dominating defense A Ravens team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ray Rice along with a dominating defense (playing against the 49ers who were led by a dominating run game and defense) The Seahawks with a running game led by Marshawn Lynch along with a dominating defense. The trick seems to be getting to the playoffs...THEN, those two features make you a force to be reckoned with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 My apologies if this has been said in another post, but the article linked below was just published in the NY Times today (Sunday, Jan. 18). Like most everyone else, I think the hiring of Ryan and Roman was an excellent move by the Bills. One thing I worry about is the "ground and pound" philosophy that Ryan and Roman want to bring. Does that approach win anymore? I hope that it does and could, but suspect that it is outdated by rule changes in the NFL. This NY Times article shows the statistics, all brought about by new rules meant to protect the QB and WR: 9 QB's had 30 or more touchdowns this year. NINE!!!!. Compare that to ZERO in 2002, and ONE in 2003, 2005, and 2006. As the article suggests, isn't a passing offense with an elite QB now a necessary (though not sufficient) condition for winning a championship? If so, why bother building a team for a running game, if you simply can't win a Superbowl with this mentality? Sure, we can be competitive, and make the playoffs, but we will ultimately be outscored by a team with a good defense and an high-octane passing offense. Witness the remaining teams in the playoffs. If all this is true, then the Bills and every other team should pull out all the stops to developing a high-octane passing offense. "Ground and pound" (at least the "ground" part) won't win anymore, and I am a bit worried that the Bills are setting themselves up for failure. I think "Ground and Pound" is just a silly branding term. It's largely meaningless. More importantly is the ability to both pass and run and use those at the right times versus the right opponents. Seattle is the perfect example. Green Bay has made a big effort to run more. I know we are going to hear about Ground and Pound until we are so sick of the term, but I think it's just yak yak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think "Ground and Pound" is just a silly branding term. It's largely meaningless. More importantly is the ability to both pass and run and use those at the right times versus the right opponents. Seattle is the perfect example. Green Bay has made a big effort to run more. I know we are going to hear about Ground and Pound until we are so sick of the term, but I think it's just yak yak. You make a good point. Unpredictability between the run and pass has been absent for a while. Calling the right plays at the right time and a balanced approach would be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 And yet the last three Super Bowls winners have been... A Giants team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ahmad Bradshaw along with a dominating defense A Ravens team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ray Rice along with a dominating defense (playing against the 49ers who were led by a dominating run game and defense) The Seahawks with a running game led by Marshawn Lynch along with a dominating defense. The trick seems to be getting to the playoffs...THEN, those two features make you a force to be reckoned with Thats the truth, too. Another example is how the Pats approached the playoffs, this season and last. Pass all year and then when it's crunch time, give it to Blount 20 times a game. It worked for them until they met the Broncos D in the AFC championship. It didn't surprise me when they signed him again this year, halfway through the season. No doubt Belichek had the playoffs in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Strong defense + ground game + smart qb that protects the ball but can make timely plays = Seattle seahawks = super bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BELLABEANER Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Seattle won the Superbowl last year with ground and pound. They will do it again this year. Ohio State kicked the crap out of the pass happy team in the national championship this year. The best team in college football the past five years(Alabama) is ground and pound. As Bill Parcells once said, "power football still wins". You make a good point. Unpredictability between the run and pass has been absent for a while. Calling the right plays at the right time and a balanced approach would be ideal. Having great players is the most important thing. Schemes and play calling are overrated. Watch the plays Luck, Rodgers, Wilson, and Brady make this weekend and ask yourself if we have had a qb on the roster since Jim Kelly who can make those kind of plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Seattle won the Superbowl last year with ground and pound. They will do it again this year. Ohio State kicked the crap out of the pass happy team in the national championship this year. The best team in college football the past five years(Alabama) is ground and pound. As Bill Parcells once said, "power football still wins". It does, but you still have to put yourself in the position to be around in January. Thats where 'It's a passing league' comes into play. You can win some games during the regular season throwing 45 times, but in a playoff game where both teams have their backs against the wall, you have to be able to mix it up effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 After almost every game this past season people would post on this forum that the pass to run ratio was all wrong for the Bills. Too many passes, not enough runs (sometimes approaching 2 to 1). Putting the game in the hands of a second/third rate QB. Not letting the large and non-agile lineman just plow ahead and run block. If the next approach is to reverse this ratio and have a "game manager" approach for a QB, that seems logical to me. If and when the Bills get a first rate QB, then the passing game can be more of an option. I think the new coaching staff knows they don't have a first rate QB on the roster, and trading or drafting for one is not a safe bet, so featuring the run game is the only logical thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Strong defense + ground game + smart qb that protects the ball but can make timely plays = Seattle seahawks = super bowl and Giants and Ravens (the previous two SB winners) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) And yet the last three Super Bowls winners have been... A Giants team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game..............along with a dominating defense A Ravens team that backed into the playoffs............along with a dominating defense ........... I am not disagreeing with your point, the Seahawks, 9ers and Ravens all had very strong run games.....and it seems obvious to me that the ground and pound is not obsolete. What you wrote above however is wrong......and I'm baffled why so many people believe it to be the case. The Giants had the 32nd ranked running game in 2011.....both in yards and YPA. The Giants had the 27th ranked defense(yards). 29th against the pass, 19th against the run. The Ravens were a bit better ranking 17th defensively(yards). 17th against the pass, 20th against the run. Edited January 18, 2015 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BELLABEANER Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 It does, but you still have to put yourself in the position to be around in January. Thats where 'It's a passing league' comes into play. You can win some games during the regular season throwing 45 times, but in a playoff game where both teams have their backs against the wall, you have to be able to mix it up effectively. Well I highly doubt any of the teams i mentioned put themselves in position with a passing game in the regular season and then flipped a switch and suddenly went ground and pound in the playoffs. Seattle, for one, led the league in rushing this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 No it is not obsolete. It's still a necessary aspct of the offense that opens up the passing options, slows down the pass rush, and still wears down a defense late in games. In the case of the Bills, it's definitely necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 ground & pound = getting 1 yard when the other team knows your coming. this is sill a QB pass happy league. like always, you need to be able to do both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan of St Augustine Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I think good teams are multi-dimensional and can rely on either as dictated by their opponents strengths and weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) And yet the last three Super Bowls winners have been... A Giants team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ahmad Bradshaw along with a dominating defense A Ravens team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ray Rice along with a dominating defense (playing against the 49ers who were led by a dominating run game and defense) The Seahawks with a running game led by Marshawn Lynch along with a dominating defense. The trick seems to be getting to the playoffs...THEN, those two features make you a force to be reckoned with ALL THREE of those teams had really, really potent passing attacks and all three have absolutely elite QBs....when they are playing in elite mode. Flacco and Eli are both capable of being in the top 2 or 3 QBs in the league, in streaks. When Baltimore won, Flacco was throwing accurate deep bombs with regularity, including that unbelievable QB duel with Peyton Manning out in Denver. When Eli has won, he has been on his game and a lethal passer. Let's not start revising history here. Wilson out in Seattle does a lot of effective throwing too, it's just well mixed in with a run game more than other teams, like the Patriots. We can build a strong defense, a strong run game, take lots of time off the clock, hog the ball, blah blah blah. Such a team is going to run into the wrong QB (probably named Brady and then Rodgers or Wilson) at some point...and our QB is going to have to be able to go to the guns and out-duel an absolute top QB. This is 100% why, for the most part, the teams who played in the playoffs this year played, why the final 4 are who they are, and why the Superbowl champion will be who it will be. You won't be struggling to find the super stud elite franchise QB on the winning team....and the winning offense is not going to be defined by "ground and pound" even if its Seattle again (my pick). Edited January 18, 2015 by Stopthepain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If Seattle is obsolete and wins a 2nd straight Superbowl, then I want the Bills to be like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Winning your division is mostly about the QB. Once in the playoffs, when facing teams with equally strong QBs, the running game and defense become the new X-factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) And yet the last three Super Bowls winners have been... A Giants team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ahmad Bradshaw along with a dominating defense A Ravens team that backed into the playoffs, and won with a strong run game led by Ray Rice along with a dominating defense (playing against the 49ers who were led by a dominating run game and defense) The Seahawks with a running game led by Marshawn Lynch along with a dominating defense. The trick seems to be getting to the playoffs...THEN, those two features make you a force to be reckoned with All of them had very strong QB play as well. I think that this subject is one thing Dick Jauron got right- you have to be strong in all phases to win a championship. You can't not be able to run it effectively and expect to win. Especially on the road and in the playoffs. So, ground and pound is fine but they will have to be able to throw it well too. Edited January 18, 2015 by vincec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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