An Injection of Facts Re QB recently Drafted

[Saint Doug]

Before another "Lets bring in Foles and Glennon to compete with EJ" thread, I hope people will look at the actual performance stats - follow it back to pro-football-reference whence I sourced the data, get down in the game logs, and think about whether this is a genuine "known factor" improvement, or did you happen to see a good game and there must have been counterpoint not-so-good games to give those overall stats?

 

Wait, Foles has just had a few good games on Sportscenter? Which part of the ratio 27-2 don't you understand? But you want to write him off during an injury-filled season? The guy's 25 years-old.

[217014170]

You need to check your facts again. By draft time, Bortles was a slam dunk top 10 pick. Bridgewater was barely in the 1st if he was there at all. Johnny Hobbit was all over the place.

 

Why the hell did the Bills draft Leif Larsen over Brady? I knew Brady was going to be this good!!!

Leif Larsen was a monster at the combine and Todd Collins ruined it for all future Michigan QBs in Buffalo. ;-)

[chris heff]

Well, even giving the benefit of the doubt that maybe these guys are NFL rewind subscribers addicted to the "coaches film" - it's easy to cherry-pick games.

Unless one really watches every game, one doesn't get a full picture.

 

I think there's also the well-known work aphorism that "one awshit wipes out 10 attaboys". A horrid play sticks in our memory more than 10 good ones.

 

It's why I'm personally glad EJ got benched - once he got benched, it became easy to see that he wasn't the problem with the run game and the OL.

 

 

You honed in on the best of the "2nd tier" guys, and the one who has shown the most IMO.

 

That said - the Iggles won't be giving him away. The market for a capable QB is strong, he has value to them as a backup even if they do want to go for Mariota, and he's signed through 2015 at a modest contract considering what he's shown.

 

So if you think we should go after him, what do you think we should be willing to give up?

I wouldn't give up anything for either Foles or Glennon. They need to sign a free agent and draft a guy.

Is Jake Locker a free agent?

Edited January 9, 2015 by chris heff

[Prickly Pete]

I don;t know what the stats are, but I've watched Locker play enough to know that EJM will have a better career than Jake Locker.

[respk]

The Bills cannot rely on EJ becoming a serviceable QB. The defense is ready now. They need to find a QB that has shown they are on the cusp of being ready now or can be the starter day 1. Then they need to find another QB that has the talent to be the backup. Then they can let EJ compete with the 2 new QBs for the starting spot. Whoever wins, the Bills go forward. To go into another season believing EJ will be an adequate starter without having an adequate starter on the roster would be extreme negligence on the part of the GM.

[Captain Hindsight]

The Bills cannot rely on EJ becoming a serviceable QB. The defense is ready now. They need to find a QB that has shown they are on the cusp of being ready now or can be the starter day 1. Then they need to find another QB that has the talent to be the backup. Then they can let EJ compete with the 2 new QBs for the starting spot. Whoever wins, the Bills go forward. To go into another season believing EJ will be an adequate starter without having an adequate starter on the roster would be extreme negligence on the part of the GM.

I agree. I think (hope) EJ will be improved going into next year. Maybe watching a vet, albeit a **** one, helped him. Maybe it didn't but I can't write him off yet. Especially after reading all about ole Douchetool coaching for his job and promptly quitting once he had it

 

Bring in another journeyman and hope for the best. If a good QB presents himself in a reasonable trade... do it

[The Frankish Reich]

I don;t know what the stats are, but I've watched Locker play enough to know that EJM will have a better career than Jake Locker.

EJ: afraid to run lest he gets hurt.

Locker: not afraid to run.

 

EJ: gets hurt.

Locker: gets hurt.

 

Conclusion: Locker > EJ. But it's close. If you're gonna get hurt, get hurt doing something slightly more entertaining than overthrowing Robert Woods.

[C.Biscuit97]

EJ: afraid to run lest he gets hurt.

Locker: not afraid to run.

 

EJ: gets hurt.

Locker: gets hurt.

 

Conclusion: Locker > EJ. But it's close. If you're gonna get hurt, get hurt doing something slightly more entertaining than overthrowing Robert Woods.

They are very similar but EJ just had his 2nd season destroyed by Marrone. Locker has gotten hurt every year.

[TC in St. Louis]

Just about everything I've read since Marrone walked leads me to believe that the players on the offense deserve a fresh start. All of them.

 

I believe that Eric Wood and Cordy Glenn went backwards. The second fastest guy in the history of the NFL draft sat there like a bump on a log. Marquise Goodwin. CJ Spiller and Fred went south.

 

I believe that we have the talent to be a very good offense. We have veterans in Henderson and Wood, a growing star in Henderson, some superior athletes waiting to play (Cyrus and Cyril), and a couple other veterans (Hairston, Pears, Urbik, Williams) that just might be terrific if coached properly. If they keep CJ, I think he'll bounce back. However, I also believe Bryce Brown has the natural ability to be a star. Fred has one more good year in him. We have Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, as our top 4 wideouts. Tight end needs improvement, although I like Chandler's ability to get open and make nice catches.

 

We need a quarterback. EJ is a quarterback. I like him, and I would not go into the ota's with just EJ and Tuel. That is stupid.

 

I think our new owners have committed the resources to win now. I actually believe that Doug Whaley is the right guy for the job. I think he'll sign a guard and maybe a quality tight end. And he will find an answer at quarterback.

 

A lot of people find this whole ordeal as tortuous. I'm enjoying it. I'm glad Doug Marrone is gone. I'm glad Kyle Orton quit.

 

Moving forward.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's EJM, and/or draft a guy that will take at least 2 years to develop. In other words, it's EJM.

 

There MIGHT be a guy that's been developing on another teams bench, that can come here cheap, and surprise us, but that is like hitting the lottery.

 

There are probably some fans of other teams that look at our own EJM as that kind of guy. "Yeah, Buffalo might let Manuel go for cheap, and I thought he looked pretty good, but their coach/o-line/running game sucked. The ______ (Rams, Cardinals, Bucs, Jags, Titans, Texans...) should take a chance on him..."

 

They gotta work on building up the offense around EJM for this next season. There really isn't a good, likely alternative.

 

Please don't mistake, I'm all for drafting a QB if there's a value player who drops. Nix said "if you wait to draft a QB until you need one, you've waited too long" or words to that effect. Unfortunately he didn't practice what he preached. I'm also all for signing the best FA that we can.

 

I agree with you about EJ being likely our best shot this year and that we need to really build up the line and the running game. A surprisingly mediocre QB can take a team into the playoffs with a great running game and D (TJ Yates, anyone?)

 

I'm just frustrated by the "let's bring in all these QB who are under contract to other teams and are the best QB on that team right now" threads.

Just about everything I've read since Marrone walked leads me to believe that the players on the offense deserve a fresh start. All of them.

 

I believe that Eric Wood and Cordy Glenn went backwards. The second fastest guy in the history of the NFL draft sat there like a bump on a log. Marquise Goodwin. CJ Spiller and Fred went south.

 

I believe that we have the talent to be a very good offense. We have veterans in Henderson and Wood, a growing star in Henderson, some superior athletes waiting to play (Cyrus and Cyril), and a couple other veterans (Hairston, Pears, Urbik, Williams) that just might be terrific if coached properly. If they keep CJ, I think he'll bounce back. However, I also believe Bryce Brown has the natural ability to be a star. Fred has one more good year in him. We have Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Goodwin, as our top 4 wideouts. Tight end needs improvement, although I like Chandler's ability to get open and make nice catches.

 

We need a quarterback. EJ is a quarterback. I like him, and I would not go into the ota's with just EJ and Tuel. That is stupid.

 

I think our new owners have committed the resources to win now. I actually believe that Doug Whaley is the right guy for the job. I think he'll sign a guard and maybe a quality tight end. And he will find an answer at quarterback.

 

A lot of people find this whole ordeal as tortuous. I'm enjoying it. I'm glad Doug Marrone is gone. I'm glad Kyle Orton quit.

 

Moving forward.

 

Well said. I'm leaning towards this POV.

[Prickly Pete]

"The Bills cannot rely on EJ becoming a serviceable QB. The defense is ready now. They need to find a QB that has shown they are on the cusp of being ready now or can be the starter day 1. Then they need to find another QB that has the talent to be the backup. Then they can let EJ compete with the 2 new QBs for the starting spot. Whoever wins, the Bills go forward. To go into another season believing EJ will be an adequate starter without having an adequate starter on the roster would be extreme negligence on the part of the GM."

 

 

WHO?

 

Who is this magically serviceable QB that you speak of?

Edited January 10, 2015 by HoF Watkins

[PromoTheRobot]

The Bills cannot rely on EJ becoming a serviceable QB. The defense is ready now. They need to find a QB that has shown they are on the cusp of being ready now or can be the starter day 1. Then they need to find another QB that has the talent to be the backup. Then they can let EJ compete with the 2 new QBs for the starting spot. Whoever wins, the Bills go forward. To go into another season believing EJ will be an adequate starter without having an adequate starter on the roster would be extreme negligence on the part of the GM.

Yes they do. Who did you have in mind? Cutler? Bradford? Rex Grossman? Edited January 10, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I don;t know what the stats are, but I've watched Locker play enough to know that EJM will have a better career than Jake Locker.

 

Quite possibly true. We do, however, need to bring in a FA and the pickin's are pretty slim. Anyone you like better?

[Prickly Pete]

 

Quite possibly true. We do, however, need to bring in a FA and the pickin's are pretty slim. Anyone you like better?

Not really. I'm not against bringing in Locker, I just don't expect him to beat out EJM when he gets here.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Not really. I'm not against bringing in Locker, I just don't expect him to beat out EJM when he gets here.

 

Surprisingly, the FA (of an admittedly slim crop) I'd most like to see is Sanchez. I am sure that would be a controversial choice here.

He played the best football of his career this past season in Philly. Questions to be answered would be: did it help him to get thrown out of his nice cozy NYJ bed? is it system - did Chip Kelly help him and he'll regress away from Kelly?

 

Other FA I'd like to see B'lo look at include Matt Moore. Moore looked OK in 2011 and we haven't seen much of him since. Has he still "got it"? Will he re-sign with Miami? They paid him $4M to sit on the bench last year. He should be a steadying veteran presence for EJ if we could get him.

 

Mallet is the most intriguing FA. I would expect the Texans to put on a push to keep him, but if not, he's the one with the "unknown potential" factor

[Prickly Pete]

None of those guys intrigue me, or at least EJM intrigues me more. I doubt any of them will "hold the place" for an eventual successor any better than EJM would. They have to bring in a veteran, and will probably draft someone too, but like I said, for at least this next season, I fully expect EJM to be the starter.

[billieve420]

Yeah it seems to me at this point the best option would be going after Mark Sanchez and giving him an opportunity to compete for the starting job. If he loses we have an nice backup QB who can come in and win some games. Then I would also look to draft a QB in the mid to late rounds to compete with Tuel. Gotta keep searching for a QB and hope we get lucky.

[respk]

Yes they do. Who did you have in mind? Cutler? Bradford? Rex Grossman?

 

As we all know the pickings are slim, but that's why Whaley and the next HC make the big bucks.

 

Maybe we try to pry Bradford out of StL. Sanchez is a FA maybe he'd like a chance at starting. Pick another FA and sign both. Draft the best available in the 2nd or 3rd and take a flyer on someone in the 7th. The Bills just can't go into another season with the only option EJ. He already failed once, not entirely his fault most likely, and the players don't appear to have any faith in him. The players lack of faith in him may be the biggest reason that the Bills have to find someone else. The Bills have a defense that is ready for the playoffs now. 2014 was a wasted year for that defense. The belief going into the season that EJ would be ready was a huge miscalculation by Whaley. If he ties the 2015 season to EJ again and EJ fails, Whaley should be gone. You can't make the same mistake twice in two years.

[chris heff]

EJ: afraid to run lest he gets hurt.

Locker: not afraid to run.

 

EJ: gets hurt.

Locker: gets hurt.

 

Conclusion: Locker > EJ. But it's close. If you're gonna get hurt, get hurt doing something slightly more entertaining than overthrowing Robert Woods.

I don't think EJ was afraid to run. I think he was told not too. The same as he was told not to "force" the ball down field.

 

Sometimes the injury thing is just bad luck. Phil Simms was injured a lot early in his career and got benched in favor of Scott Brunner.

[Dorkington]

The fact that EJ has only had 14 games, playing for a coach who is miserable, and an offensive system that is questionable, and yet still produced early/rookie numbers that fall in line with many successful QBs gives me hope that he can still develop. I just hope the damage is reversible.